Design your dream scale

[paulraphael]

In this thread http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...60#entry1528456

I lamented that no one made a scale that worked directly with bakers' percentages. It seemed so obvious that a scale should allow you to establish a 100% weight, and then have it give you the weights of all other ingredients in percentages.

Chris Hennes pointed out that some scales have a "count" feature that can be used to this effect, though it isn't really their intended use (and I don't know in practice how well it works).

So I wrote to the good people at My Weigh, and they want to design a scale that does this. They want to know exactly how the percentage feature should work so they can explain it to the programmer.

I told them my idea, but wanted to solicit the ideas of experienced bakers and cooks. What food related functions are missing from current scales? And are there common features that you don't use that could be eliminated? My assumption is that this would be a serious production scale, so it wouldn't have an interior-design look or features like calorie counting.

So ...

How would you like to see bakers percentages implemented?

What capacity would be most useful?

Is 1gram readability enough? Do you need 0.1 gram?

How much more would you be willing to pay for 0.1 gram readability?

What else?

Maybe I could talk them into giving an eGullet discount as thanks for your input.

Edited February 4, 2008 by paulraphael (log)

[Chris Hennes]

Paul -

This is great---thanks for contacting them! I hope they can come up with something useful (and sale-able). I think the ideal would just be a "Set 100%" button that you could press when you had your 100% ingredient on the scale. So the procedure would be, for example:

1) Place bowl on scale

2) Tare

3) Fill bowl with flour

4) Press 100% button

5) Put next bowl on

6) Tare

7) Weigh

I personally feel like I require 0.1 gram accuracy, since I like to be able to weigh the salt and yeast as well, and these are frequently such small contributors (< 1%) to the overall weight. I am certainly not averse to paying something like $200 for a scale that can do, say 5kg in 0.1g increments (I think this is about the price point of the i5500).

Edited February 4, 2008 by Chris Hennes (log)

[plk]

I would love a button on the front for easy switching between grams and ounces. To change my Soehnle scale, I have to turn it over, take off the rubber cover on the bottom, and stick a pen or something in there to reach the switch. I think the baker's percentage idea is genius, and think it would be nice if the weight could also be displayed along side the percentage. Such as, 100% : 100g or something instead of just displaying one or the other. It wouldn't be necessary, but would be neat.

[paulraphael]

I would love a button on the front for easy switching between grams and ounces.

That should be a given ... the current My Weigh scales toggle with a button on the front. Some have the added feature of remembering the last unit you used, so you don't have to always reset to your preference.

[gfron1]

All I want is accuracy!!!! Is it so damn hard to do! Wait, add consistent accuracy!

I have to have the .1, but it has to give me enough range to go up to say 5#. I haven't found a scale that gives me both which means I need to use 2 scales for many of my jobs. Why not a switch that allows a switch over from mega to micro.

Did I mention accuracy? There really aren't any other features that I need.

[andiesenji]

Gee, I have made do in the kitchen with a couple of Salter Aquatronics for several years.

I do have a jewelry scale in my studio but it was a bit pricey.

jewelry scale

When one is weighing gold and other precious metals, one needs true accuracy (and a hotline to get the current prices).

This one is extremely accurate and can convert to several different modes which is extremely important when weighing a wax model and determining what it will convert to in gold, silver or platinum.

It weighs up to 7 kg and is accurate to 1/100 gm.

The only time I have ever used it for a kitchen item was when I needed to weigh some saffron purchased in "bulk" and divvied up with a couple of friends.

Edited February 5, 2008 by andiesenji (log)

[Chris Hennes]

I have to have the .1, but it has to give me enough range to go up to say 5#.  I haven't found a scale that gives me both which means I need to use 2 scales for many of my jobs.

←

I was under the impression that the MyWeight i5500 did this---if not, I guess I better take it off my wish list!

[paulraphael]

I was under the impression that the MyWeight i5500 did this---if not, I guess I better take it off my wish list!

←

just checked their site ... it does. but it costs close to $200, which seems to put it out of the kitchen category. they call it a jewelry scale, though it looks great for the kitchen.

[Chris Hennes]

just checked their site ... it does. but it costs close to $200, which seems to put it out of the kitchen category. they call it a jewelry scale, though it looks great for the kitchen.

←

I think for a scale of those capabilities ~$200 is a reasonable price. Sure, I'd like it to cost less, but I'd pay $200 for a "perfect" kitchen scale (granted, my current kitchen scale is the annoying Soehnle mode mentioned above, which was like $30). I have plenty of crap I use less that cost more... maybe this speaks more to my kitchen gadget addiction than anything else... how much do you all think is a reasonable price for this "perfect" scale (say 5kg capacity, 0.1g accuracy)? How much if it couldn't do 0.1 gram increments? What about if it was only 2kg capacity?

[gfron1]

With regard to price, I agree that I would pay $200 if it worked and had a nice guarantee on it - say 3-5 years.

[Peter the eater]

What can my dream scale do? What a question!

I use three scales: there's a small digital one for tiny weights like grams and milligrams, a spring-style scale for things that are up to several pounds, and then we have a an old beam scale from a hospital which is obviously best for whole human-sized weights. I don't plan on buying a new scale, but if there was a three-in-one for me I'd consider it.

My understanding is that the first two scales (load sensor and spring) measure force but the beam compares masses, meaning it will work on the moon without calibration. I can't image that's much of a selling feature. Years ago I had a summer job in a pharmaceutical lab and we had scales with an "attenuation button" that allowed the user to switch weighing zones by a factor of ten. This means you could maintain super accuracy whether the object was one, ten, a hundred or a thousand grams.

My dream scale has an attenuation button.

[paulraphael]

You'd want an attenuation button in a kitchen scale?

[Peter the eater]

You'd want an attenuation button in a kitchen scale?

←

Sure.

If it means I can weigh objects that are orders of magnitude apart without compromising accuracy then why not. One scale to measure out 1g of salt or 10 kg of potatoes to three significant figures.

I think the digital scale I mentioned had more than one gizmo inside - like small, medium and large. I'm sure it was still an analytical scale meaning it is essentially a balance beam inside, but with more than one size of "constant force" applied to the beam. It was a long time ago but I'll see if I can find a model or a make.

So getting back to the original question, I'd want a dream scale for the kitchen to handle a few grams of powder up to a big 50lb bucket of potatoes.

[andiesenji]

Currently on ebay, there is a scale that might be accurate enough in smaller amounts (to 2000 g.)

at a Buy-it-Now price of $52.99, which sounds very reasonable - and with a 10 year warranty.

Jewelry scale on ebay

[Chris Hennes]

Currently on ebay, there is a scale that might be accurate enough in smaller amounts (to 2000 g.)

at a Buy-it-Now price of $52.99, which sounds very reasonable - and with a 10 year warranty.

Jewelry scale on ebay

←

Seeing that scale reminds me of another requirement for a kitchen scale: a sealed front panel that can be wiped off easily. And preferably a removable, dishwasher-safe tray. My kitchen environment is a bit more hostile than a jewelry production facility, I would guess...

[andiesenji]

Currently on ebay, there is a scale that might be accurate enough in smaller amounts (to 2000 g.)

at a Buy-it-Now price of $52.99, which sounds very reasonable - and with a 10 year warranty.

Jewelry scale on ebay

←

Seeing that scale reminds me of another requirement for a kitchen scale: a sealed front panel that can be wiped off easily. And preferably a removable, dishwasher-safe tray. My kitchen environment is a bit more hostile than a jewelry production facility, I would guess...

←

Not necessarily. My studio has dust from polishing compounds, grinding from gemstones and glass, as well as volatile oils and liquids dripped onto abrasive plates. (I wear a breathing apparatus as one does not want to inhale things such as cerium oxide, etc.) Any instruments have to be able to be used in these conditions.

Actually, you can stick the entire scale inside a plastic zip-loc bag and zero it with the weight of the bag.

Edited February 5, 2008 by andiesenji (log)

[Darcie B]

Here is what I would like in a dream scale. Some of these are already available on the one I currently use, the myWeigh 7001.

1) ability to weigh with 1 g accuracy to about 10 kg (7-8 kg would be OK) (I don't weigh the small stuff, but if it could be .1 g accurate and priced below $150 I might)

2) easy conversion between unit measures

3) ability to build a total weight but be able to scroll back to see how much each previous ingredient weighed (press a button between each ingredient so you didn't just get each scoop). Limit of ~10 ingredients. This would help with things like "did I remember to put in the baking soda?"

4) tare feature, natch

5) hold feature and/or removable display for large bowls that obscure readout (or maybe a projection feature out the back similar to some alarm clocks?)

6) both battery and inverter power

7) baker's percentage feature like Chris Hennes described

8) really a dream - interface to plug into laptop to record measurements (helpful in recipe development) - maybe an export button that would put the last X measurements into a spreadsheet.

9) ability to recalibrate

10) priced under $150; ideally $100 (i know, dream on)

11) easy to clean

12) not too bulky (the 7001 is ideally sized for me)

[paulraphael]

We may have a prototype in 2 months.

They'll send it to me to test, but I'll want to pass it on to someone working in a pro shop who can really beat on it with big volume use (preferably in the NYC area).

I'll be asking for guinee pigs if/when it arrives.

[John DePaula]

Here are a few things I'd like to have:

• Ability to handle small sub-1gram amounts and and larger 6-10kg amounts.
  
• Ability to "remember" the last state before auto-shutoff engages. e.g. I tare a bowl, start adding nuts, then I see that I don't have enough and have to get another pack to finish adding the required quantity. But if the scale has auto-shutoff, I have to re-weigh the initial mass.
  
• Ability to import and export a list of volume-to-mass conversions. e.g. I know that 1 cup of granulated sugar is about 180g. It would be great if that info were available in the scale. Going in the other direction, if I could measure out a cup of dried cherries and then weigh it, that info could become part of my database for future recipes.
  

[sygyzy]

To me a perfect scale would be high accuracy and high capacity. These exist but are very expensive so to counter it I have to keep three scales around. I have one at work that goes 0.05 grams, one at home that does 0.1 g and another one that does 0.05 (?) at home too. They all have differing capacities too.

To answer your specific question, I need to ask one of my own. Can you give an example of a recipe where percentages are used? The reason I ask is because 20% of the flour weight does not mean 20% of the recipe.

Take 100 grams of flour. You set that as 100%. Then you add 20 grams of sugar.

The total weight is now 120 grams and the sugar represents 16.66% of the mix, not 20%

[Chris Hennes]

To me a perfect scale would be high accuracy and high capacity. These exist but are very expensive so to counter it I have to keep three scales around. I have one at work that goes 0.05 grams, one at home that does 0.1 g and another one that does 0.05 (?) at home too. They all have differing capacities too.

To answer your specific question, I need to ask one of my own. Can you give an example of a recipe where percentages are used? The reason I ask is because 20% of the flour weight does not mean 20% of the recipe.

Take 100 grams of flour. You set that as 100%. Then you add 20 grams of sugar.

The total weight is now 120 grams and the sugar represents 16.66% of the mix, not 20%

←

Baker's percentages are generally defined as a percentage of the amount of flour. So the flour is, by definition, 100%. Obviously, this is not 100% of the total weight, it's just a system that makes scaling up and down really easy. So if you have sugar in your recipe and it is 50%, that just means that it is 50% of the weight of the flour. Many culinary school textbooks and standardized industrial recipes use this system. A scale that could do this would be handy because you would never have to actually do the math: you would just measure out the desired amount of flour, set that as 100%, and then the rest of your ingredients would be automatically scaled appropriately.

Edited to add an example: my recipe for Pate a choux looks like this---

1) Bread flour: 100%

2) Water: 167%

3) Butter: 67%

4) Sugar: 3%

5) Salt: 3%

6) Eggs: 100%

So this could be, for example, to give a total weight of 660 grams:

1) Bread flour: 150g

2) Water: 250g

3) Butter: 100g

4) Sugar: 5g

5) Salt: 5g

6) Eggs: 150g

Edited February 15, 2008 by Chris Hennes (log)

[dougal]

Some recipes get written as "bakers' percentages".

Now *IF* other recipes were given in such proportional terms, then a scale that would do the calculations to vary the total quantity might be useful. But personally, I doubt it would be a big seller. AND since it seems too difficult to get recipes published in simple weight terms, I think that hoping for weight proportions is a pastime for an optimist.

Regarding bakers' percentages.

Since they relate to the total flour, they can get kinda tricksy when there are mixtures of flours used, and especially when some of the flour goes into a pre-ferment, long before many of the other ingredients would be measured out. Use a mixture of flours with a pre-ferment and a spreadsheet would likely be simpler than wrestling with the logic inbuilt into a scale.

[Chris Hennes]

Some recipes get written as "bakers' percentages".

Now *IF* other recipes were given in such proportional terms, then a scale that would do the calculations to vary the total quantity might be useful. But personally, I doubt it would be a big seller. AND since it seems too difficult to get recipes published in simple weight terms, I think that hoping for weight proportions is a pastime for an optimist.

Regarding bakers' percentages.

Since they relate to the total flour, they can get kinda tricksy when there are mixtures of flours used, and especially when some of the flour goes into a pre-ferment, long before many of the other ingredients would be measured out. Use a mixture of flours with a pre-ferment and a spreadsheet would likely be simpler than wrestling with the logic inbuilt into a scale.

←

I agree that the feature would not be useful in all circumstances, too all people. But since it is a very minor variation of the pre-existing "count" feature of these scales, and for some of us it would be very useful, I don't see the harm in including it. I am using large-quantity recipes most of the time, but scaling them down to more manageable quantities for the home baker/confectioner.

On that note, I see that my confectionary recipes do not have a 100% ingredient, like a baker's percentage. The percent system they are using is as a percentage of the total weight: the baker's percentage feature described above would not be useful for these quantities, since there is no way to set a base ingredient as an arbitrary percentage (say, by telling the scale the chocolate is 71% of the total weight, etc.). I don't see a reasonable, cost-effective way of supporting this, since you would need a full keypad.

[jackal10]

I don't want my scale too intelligent.

Even as a baker I would not find bakers percentages useful - they are less useful when using metric measure anyway.

Things I do want:

- 10 kg or more. I sometimes make 10Kg batches plus pan etc

- Large enough platform to put a food processor bowl on

- 0.1g accuracy, for spices gells etc. AT the moment I need two scales, a big one and a small accurate one

- Big numbers and buttons. My eyesight is not what it was, especially when covered with flour

- Waterproof, flour proof for when I drop it in the sink

- Drop proof, at least from workbench height

- Long battery life, ideally solar panel to recharge

Set point and a beep, so I can do repeat weighings

Things I don't need:

Swivelling display

Backlight

Letter racks

Edited February 15, 2008 by jackal10 (log)

[paulraphael]

I find the bakers percentage system really useful for understanding recipes. In some that I've developed, I've used the nontraditional approach of using things besides flour as the 100% ingredient. Usually chocolate. In something like a flourless chocolate cake, a mousse, or even brownies, chocolate makes the most sense to me, and I've used it in my recipes.

I've gone to the trouble of converting other recipes to this system, so i can compare them and see what's going on.