Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

CaliPoutine

"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)

Recommended Posts

Here is the rye that I started on Saturday.  I baked off the first loaf today.  Omg, it smells so good.  We're going to have tuna sandwiches for lunch.

Is it normal for the dough to really spread out while its resting on the counter?

Btw, I skipped the cornmeal and baked it on the parchment.

gallery_25969_665_828194.jpg

Hi. Yes, with these slack doughs you will definitely have spreading. Did you get good oven spring? It is hard to tell from the angle in the picture. The loaf looks wonderful and I hope you like the flavor!

It is a delicate balance between a dough that is wet enough to produce a nice crumb and not too wet so it will hold its shape. This is even more profound with the rye dough because rye has very little gluten to speak of and the dough can get even more slack.

Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gallery_34671_3697_208.jpg

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Talk about a pin-up photo! That looks incredible.

OK, this is embarrassing to admit, especially since I am a card carrying chocoholic, but I don't think I had ever heard of chocolate bread until this thread. Do you slice it and eat it like pound cake? I didn't think I was interested until the siren song of that photo.

pat

More like regular bread. I just put a bit of butter on it.

It's also outstanding with cream cheese, and makes for a decadent French toast. And if it's getting a little stale (yeah, right -- like it's going to last that long), it's the start of an incredible bread pudding.

This picture has convinced me to buy the book. Thirteen dollars for a loaf of cherry chocolate bread from Zingerman's, wonderful as it is, approaches not-worth-it-except-maybe-once-a-year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't slacked off baking bread just slacked off posting about it!

gallery_6903_111_120701.jpg

This is the pumpernickel bread made with the caramel colouring from "Secrets of a Jewish Baker". I did not use caraway on top as I have two family members who really dislike caraway but Kerry Beal tried it and she really missed the caraway. Next loaf will have the caraway!

This is exactly the style of bread we enjoy most with our Danish open-face sandwiches but I never thought I might be able to make it myself!

I have another batch of basic dough in the 'fridge in which I reduced the water to 3 1/2 cups (from 3 3/4) still using bread flour. Tomorrow I will bake off a small loaf and see how it compares with the original one I did with bread flour.

Sorry the photo is a bit on the fuzzy side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

gallery_38003_5626_82287.jpg

This loaf weighs one pound six oz. I calulate that you can get a yeald of three loafs like this from one batch. Added to basic recipe - subbed 3/4 cup whole wheat flour, (total flour 2 lbs.) two Tbs. honey and added 1/2 cup water or 3 1/2 cups.

This is something.

Jmahl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the inside of the rye. We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye. I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour. I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

gallery_25969_665_495364.jpg

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

. . .

Jmahl

Looks great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.  I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

. . . 

Hmm that's interesting that you describe the crumb as "fluffy". I cannot say that I am familiar with NY Jewish Rye but I found this rye crumb to be firm rather than fluffy. I was reminded of supermarket rye (but better!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

. . . 

Hmm that's interesting that you describe the crumb as "fluffy". I cannot say that I am familiar with NY Jewish Rye but I found this rye crumb to be firm rather than fluffy. I was reminded of supermarket rye (but better!).

Anna's loaf was more like Jewish Rye than I expected given that there wasn't a rye sour starter. It sure didn't have a fluffy crumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

gallery_38003_5626_82287.jpg

This loaf weighs one pound six oz.  I calulate that you can get a yeald of three loafs like this from one batch.    Added to basic recipe - subbed 3/4 cup whole wheat flour, (total flour 2 lbs.) two Tbs. honey and added 1/2 cup water or 3 1/2 cups.

This is something.

Jmahl

That is beautiful. Thank you for the details. I'm going to try your variation for my next batch of dough. I have to get more plastic containers so I can keep more than one dough going at a time. It would be so great to never have to buy a loaf of crummy supermarket bread again.

pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

. . . 

Hmm that's interesting that you describe the crumb as "fluffy". I cannot say that I am familiar with NY Jewish Rye but I found this rye crumb to be firm rather than fluffy. I was reminded of supermarket rye (but better!).

Anna's loaf was more like Jewish Rye than I expected given that there wasn't a rye sour starter. It sure didn't have a fluffy crumb.

Ok, so maybe I'm doing something wrong. I know Anna is using Canadian flour and I used Gold Medal for the AP and Hodgson Mills for the Rye. Or, maybe mine is too wet.

Anna are you comparing your bread to those smallish loaves of thin sliced Rye we can get in the market. I think the brand is Dimplemyer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.  I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense. 

gallery_25969_665_495364.jpg

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense. 

gallery_25969_665_495364.jpg

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

I used the Hodgson Mills Rye(the box doesnt specify if its light or dark). I let it rise about 1hr( while I preheated the oven). I baked it at 425( convection).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the inside of the rye.  We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye.  I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour.   I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense. 

gallery_25969_665_495364.jpg

I'm going to try the Chris Kimball inspired loaf or the 100% whole wheat loaf next.

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

I used the Hodgson Mills Rye(the box doesnt specify if its light or dark). I let it rise about 1hr( while I preheated the oven). I baked it at 425( convection).

I just looked at the bread you are comparing it to at: http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/

I think you might be looking for a bread made with more rye? They bake their breads in a loaf pan so they can get away with more rye, less gluten. You might try that and see what you think. Once you add more rye you will have a very loose dough and will need to use a pan to bake it.

I'm still amazed at how fluffy your bread turned out! If anything I have been having conversations with people on how to get their breads to be fluffier! :huh:

Was your kitchen particularly warm while the dough was resting? Did it seem to be rising faster? One hour seems just about perfect for this bread and I've never described this loaf as fluffy. The flours and the rest time are all spot on! You may want to reduce the rise time next time so it doesn't develop as much loft. Wow, I never thought I'd sy that!!!

Thanks this is very interesting. Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real Jewish rye bread uses clear flour for the non-rye component (see Secrets of a Jewish Baker). For those that don't know, clear flour is what remains after the first extraction and still has a lot of the dark outer parts of the grain and has a high protein level. This is what makes the loaf firm.

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Zoe, do you have any thoughts on using clear for the AP in the recipe.

Marc

Here is the inside of the rye. We enjoyed the bread, but I think I was expecting something more akin to real NY Jewish Rye. I'm sure that bread has a much higher percentage of rye flour. I liked this, but it was "fluffy" if that makes sense.

Hi. What kind of rye flour are you using? It looks pretty light? This may make a difference in the flavor and texture of your bread. Play around with the light vs. dark ryes and how coursely they are ground. It sounds like you may prefer the high rye bran (dark), course-ground flour, which makes for a denser bread.

How long did you let this loaf rise before you baked it?

Zoe

I used the Hodgson Mills Rye(the box doesnt specify if its light or dark). I let it rise about 1hr( while I preheated the oven). I baked it at 425( convection).

I just looked at the bread you are comparing it to at: http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/

I think you might be looking for a bread made with more rye? They bake their breads in a loaf pan so they can get away with more rye, less gluten. You might try that and see what you think. Once you add more rye you will have a very loose dough and will need to use a pan to bake it.

I'm still amazed at how fluffy your bread turned out! If anything I have been having conversations with people on how to get their breads to be fluffier! :huh:

Was your kitchen particularly warm while the dough was resting? Did it seem to be rising faster? One hour seems just about perfect for this bread and I've never described this loaf as fluffy. The flours and the rest time are all spot on! You may want to reduce the rise time next time so it doesn't develop as much loft. Wow, I never thought I'd sy that!!!

Thanks this is very interesting. Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. . .

Anna are you comparing your bread to those smallish loaves of thin sliced Rye we can get in the market.  I think the brand is Dimplemyer?

Yes, except I find they always seem "old" to me - dried out and really hard to swallow.

Here's what I used for 1/2 recipe:

1 1/2 C water

3/4 T yeast

1 1/4 T DC salt

3/4 T caraway seed (plus more for top)

2.35 oz rye flour (supermarket rye - prob. White Rose)

11 1/4 oz Robin Hood All Purpose unbleached flour

Edited to say should be Red Rose rye flour not White Rose!


Edited by Anna N (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just looked at the bread you are comparing it to at: http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/

I think you might be looking for a bread made with more rye? They bake their breads in a loaf pan so they can get away with more rye, less gluten. You might try that and see what you think. Once you add more rye you will have a very loose dough and will need to use a pan to bake it.

I'm still amazed at how fluffy your bread turned out! If anything I have been having conversations with people on how to get their breads to be fluffier! 

Was your kitchen particularly warm while the dough was resting? Did it seem to be rising faster? One hour seems just about perfect for this bread and I've never described this loaf as fluffy. The flours and the rest time are all spot on! You may want to reduce the rise time next time so it doesn't develop as much loft. Wow, I never thought I'd sy that!!!

No, it wasnt warm, although it was rising next to the preheating oven. It spread out so much that I really thought I didnt let it rise enough. Don't get me wrong, the flavor was great. However, like you said, I think I like denser rye bread. I grew up in Florida in a Jewish home( both parents are from NY), so we ate a lot of Jewish Rye. That rye bread that I buy here( thanks for correcting the name) is dense and very thinly sliced. I think I buy a 454g loaf and there are maybe 8 slices in it. Its also sourdough based( no yeast).

Next time, Ill increase the rye flour and bake it in a loaf pan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Marc,

Can you tell me where that bakery is? I wish I would have known that last summer when I was in Cleveland for the Heartland Gathering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Marc,

Can you tell me where that bakery is? I wish I would have known that last summer when I was in Cleveland for the Heartland Gathering.

I though you'd never ask :biggrin:

It's Lax and Mandel and it's possible that they do mail order if you give them a call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Latest attempt from a batch mixed three days ago.

gallery_38003_5626_82287.jpg

This loaf weighs one pound six oz.  I calulate that you can get a yeald of three loafs like this from one batch.    Added to basic recipe - subbed 3/4 cup whole wheat flour, (total flour 2 lbs.) two Tbs. honey and added 1/2 cup water or 3 1/2 cups.

This is something.

Jmahl

This bread looks great! Bring on the marmalade!!!

Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Real Jewish rye bread uses clear flour for the non-rye component (see Secrets of a Jewish Baker). For those that don't know, clear flour is what remains after the first extraction and still has a lot of the dark outer parts of the grain and has a high protein level. This is what makes the loaf firm.

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Zoe, do you have any thoughts on using clear for the AP in the recipe.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Yes, the clear flour would work beautifully in the recipe. I haven't tried it in this particular rye dough (we tried to avoid special ingredients for the book), so I can't give you the %, but it should work. If you use it will you let me know what you think. I'll get some and try it as well.

It would also be good to use in the whole wheat breads.

Thanks! Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow -I was only on vacation for 5 days and look what I missed out on! For those of you who didn't see my post early on, try the Brioche!!!! I can't begin to say how wonderful it is. Before x-mas, I also made the brioche with chocolate ganache. I am now getting requests from all my friends. At this point, I pretty much always have the basic loaf on hand, modified to add some whole wheat.

In addition, I have started to keep the Brioche on hand and have recently been cutting off hunks of dough to send home with friends since I have not been able to keep up. My husband's beer fridge is slowly being overtaken.

I ordered books for a number of my friends for x-mas and now have put in a second order for additional friends and coworkers who have tried the bread. I am alway trying to get the people around me to cook more and I think this finally did the trick.

Still waiting to find the time to attempt something similar to the seven grain loaf that I like for breakfast. My first attempt very early on (before I had the book) did not turn out so well. At Zoe'ssuggestion, I am going to try and soak a variety of whole grains rather than adding more whole wheat flour. Maybe this weekend...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow -I was only  on vacation for 5 days and look what I missed out on!  For those of you who didn't see my post early on, try the Brioche!!!!  I can't begin to say how wonderful it is.  Before x-mas, I also made the brioche with chocolate ganache.  I am now getting requests from all my friends.  At this point, I pretty much always have the basic loaf on hand, modified to add some whole wheat. 

In addition, I have started to keep the Brioche on hand and have recently been cutting off hunks of dough to send home with friends since I have not been able to keep up. My husband's beer fridge is slowly being overtaken. 

I ordered books for a number of my friends for x-mas and now have put in a second order for additional friends and coworkers who have tried the bread.  I am alway trying to get the people around me to cook more and I think this finally did the trick.

Still waiting to find the time to attempt something similar to the seven grain loaf that I like for breakfast.  My first attempt very early on (before I had the book) did not turn out so well.  At Zoe'ssuggestion, I am going to try and soak a variety of whole grains rather than adding more whole wheat flour.  Maybe this weekend...

Many, many thanks for spreading the word and giving the book to so many friends!!! Do let me know how you make out with the soaked grains.

Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow -I was only  on vacation for 5 days and look what I missed out on!  For those of you who didn't see my post early on, try the Brioche!!!!  I can't begin to say how wonderful it is.  Before x-mas, I also made the brioche with chocolate ganache.  I am now getting requests from all my friends.  At this point, I pretty much always have the basic loaf on hand, modified to add some whole wheat. 

In addition, I have started to keep the Brioche on hand and have recently been cutting off hunks of dough to send home with friends since I have not been able to keep up. My husband's beer fridge is slowly being overtaken. 

I ordered books for a number of my friends for x-mas and now have put in a second order for additional friends and coworkers who have tried the bread.  I am alway trying to get the people around me to cook more and I think this finally did the trick.

Still waiting to find the time to attempt something similar to the seven grain loaf that I like for breakfast.  My first attempt very early on (before I had the book) did not turn out so well.  At Zoe'ssuggestion, I am going to try and soak a variety of whole grains rather than adding more whole wheat flour.  Maybe this weekend...

BTW - the errata sheet at my website is getting longer, unfortunately!! You may want to check it out and let those that you've given the book to know about it as well.

www.zoebakes.com

Thanks! Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here's the basic dough after reducing the amount of water by 1/4 C (this is my modified recipe using bread flour NOT Zoe's original recipe!!)

The dough was much easier to manage and the results were equally good. This remains a very, very slack dough and probably equates with Zoe's original recipe using A/P flour.

gallery_6903_111_108604.jpg

I learned this neat trick from another food discussion board: use a pair of long-bladed scissors to cut out the amount of dough you need to bake! It works really well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So here's the basic dough after reducing the amount of water by 1/4 C (this is my modified recipe using bread flour NOT Zoe's original recipe!!)

The dough was much easier to manage and the results were equally good.  This remains a very, very slack dough and probably equates with Zoe's original recipe using A/P flour.

gallery_6903_111_108604.jpg

I learned this neat trick from another food discussion board:  use a pair of long-bladed scissors to cut out the amount of dough you need to bake!  It works really well.

Anna, this bread looks wonderful! The crust and crumb are gorgeous, how did it taste? How long did you let it rest before baking? What are the measurements you have settled on with the bread flour? Do you know what the protein content is?

Sorry, for all the questions but I'm so curious how you got to this point.

Thanks! Zoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By curls
      So, what is everyone doing for the pastry & baking side of Easter?
       
      I'm working on the following chocolates: fruit & nut eggs, hollow bunnies, Jelly Belly filled bunnies, coconut bunnies, dragons (filled with rice krispies & chocolate), peanut butter hedgehogs, and malted milk hens. Hoping to finish my dark chocolate production today and get started on all my milk chocolate items.
       
      My father-in-law will be baking the traditional family Easter bread a day or two before Easter. Its an enriched bread and he makes two versions -- one with raisins and one without (I prefer the one with raisins).
       

       
      And I was lucky enough to spot this couple in the sale moulds stock at last year's eGullet chocolate & confections workshop in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario. These love bunnies help so very much with Easter chocolate production!  ;-)

    • By Cookwhoplaysdrums
      Can anyone suggest me some good books related to Gastronomy, food history, culture, recipes based on different cultures. 
      Also recommend the best food magazine subscriptions. 
    • By artiesel
      THE BOOKS ARE SOLD
       
       
      I have Volumes 1 ,2 and 4 of Jean-Pierre Wybauw's Great Chocolate books are for sale.
       
      The books are in great shape!  There is some tape on the corner of the front of volume 1 that I used to keep it together after a drop.  Volume 1 is also autographed by the author (See pics below).
       
      I'm asking $150 for the lot OBO.
       
      Let me know if interested or if you have questions
       
       
       



    • By umami5
      Has anyone come across a digital version of Practical Professional Cookery (revised 3rd edition) H.L. Cracknell & R.J. Kaufmann.
      I am using this as the textbook for my culinary arts students and a digital version would come in very handy for creating notes and handouts.
    • By Mullinix18
      I dont believe that any English translation of Carêmes works exist. An incomplete version was published in 1842 (I think) but even the that version seems lackluster for the few recipes it does cover. I think it's time the world looks to its past, but I don't speak great French and it's a huge task to undertake. I hopefully plan on publishing this work and anyone who helps me will get a very fair cut, and if we decide not to publish it, I'll put it out on the internet for free. I'm working in Google docs so we can collaborate. I'm first cataloging the index to cross reference the pre-existing incomplete English version to give us a reference of what yet needs to be done, and from there we will go down the list of recipies and Translate them one by one. Simple google translate goes only so far, as it is 1700s French culinary terms and phrases being used. I'd like to preserve as much of Carêmes beautiful and flowery language as possible. Who's with me? 
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×