"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)

[saluki]

"I think the malt powder from KA has definitely helped"

when i first started with the "artisan bread in 5 minutes", i used bleached all-pupose flour from Sam's Club (bulk all pupose flour). The bread was ok..not great crumb, decent crust, flavorless. I relied on lots of "toppings" for flavor (poppy seeds, sesame seeds, nigella seeds).

i switched to the King Arthur Flour after i ran through a veritable mountain of Sam's Club flour, and noted completely a completely different consistency to the dough, with the same amount of flour and water as before.

This led to a series of experiments (and a digital scale), to come up with the right amount of hydration to use.

Now I had great crumb, nice crust, but still had bland (although slightly tastier than before) bread.

My goal was to at least equal the flavor of the LaBrea bread I was buying at the grocery store.

Perusing the LaBrea bread ingredients, and the ingredients of other commercial bake goods i liked, i noted the addtion of malt...so i bought some from King Arthur. I'm still not sure which is better, the diastatic or the non-diastatic malt....the shipping cost as much as the malt, so i ordered one bag of each..i ended up mixing the two bags of malt together. I played around with the amount of malt, and ended up with the flavor i like.

the final part of the puzzle was shoveling flour down into the slashes to keep the slashes from "healing" shut..that really turbo-boosts the oven rise.

it's been a long carb-loaded road, but it's been worth it.

i'm now working on perfecting the home baked Simit, a super chewy sesame encrusted Turkish "bagel" of sorts...

now i'm experimenting with super high gluten flour's, with low hydration!!

makes for a powerfully chewey experience

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KA Diastolic is what I used. I also realized that the KA flour that I used is their Artisan variety.

I'll have to remember to force the flour into the slashes next time.

Love the LaBrea bread (I've only been successful with the Silverton grape starter once). After all these months of experimenting with sourdoughs---I like your adaption much better

You might enjoy watching how Nancy Silverton handles the really wet dough here:

http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/meet/silverton.html

[Heartsurgeon]

"You might enjoy watching how Nancy Silverton handles the really wet dough here"

at first i thought you meant wet money.....she's loaded don't you know...

[devlin]

A note about malt powder.... Malt powder comes in two forms, diastatic and non-diastatic. The diastatic is strictly a sweetener, used in breads primarily (I believe) to enhance the caramelization of the crust, whereas the non-diastatic malt develops enzymes which digest starches into sugars and acts as a dough conditioner, contributing a somewhat sweet flavor and acts on the yeast to promote somewhat higher rises. Barley malt syrup acts in the same way as the the non-diastatic malt powder.

[Jeff L]

I just wanted to give a shout out to Zoe for this really great master recipe. I'm somewhat new to bread baking but can honestly say now that I'm in it for the long haul. I just baked my first boule from the book today and must tell you it's the best tasting bread I've ever made. The dough was made this past Monday and your book came today so the timing was really good. Following everything to the T made a perfectly browned, firm and chewy crust while the inside of the loaf was soft and chewy.

I'm seriously wondering what Amazon's policy on returns are to see if I can send back Reinhart's book!! No more starters for me for sure.

It's really amazing that the dough I started with (kind of sick looking to be sure) could turn out such wonderful bread. Next project will be rye bread mixed with some whole what flour. I'll try to take pics. Thanks again and thanks for being a part of E-Gullet.

[CanadianBakin']

Ciabatta buns....do you think I could make them with this recipe? I have the book now and she got the method for Ciabatta. At a good artisan bakery in my area they have Ciabatta buns that look like they've flattened the dough as usual and then just cut it into random squares. How can I duplicate this. The problem with their method is that their sizes are very random (differing by up to 2 inches). One of the caterers I do desserts for finds this frustrating so I was hoping I could find a way to do them in house.

I was thinking I could just pour the whole batter onto a half size sheet pan and flatten it to 3/4". Could I just flour really well and cut them on the pan or would it grow together? Do I need to cut them on the counter and then space them out to rise and bake? I guess I could use a spatula to transfer them. I'd love to know if anyone has already tried this and any tips they might have?

[Jmahl]

Ciabatta buns....do you think I could make them with this recipe? I have the book now and she got the method for Ciabatta. At a good artisan bakery in my area they have Ciabatta buns that look like they've flattened the dough as usual and then just cut it into random squares. How can I duplicate this. The problem with their method is that their sizes are very random (differing by up to 2 inches). One of the caterers I do desserts for finds this frustrating so I was hoping I could find a way to do them in house.

I was thinking I could just pour the whole batter onto a half size sheet pan and flatten it to 3/4". Could I just flour really well and cut them on the pan or would it grow together? Do I need to cut them on the counter and then space them out to rise and bake? I guess I could use a spatula to transfer them. I'd love to know if anyone has already tried this and any tips they might have?

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Try laying down a good amount of semolina or corn flour dusting the top with flour and cutting with a large pizza wheel. You will have to separate the pieces I would guess.

I would like know what method works for you.

Jmahl

[Blake G]

Here is my first attempt at no knead artisan bread. The one in the back has poppy seeds on it, which turned out nicely.

I let the dough sit in the fridge for 24 hours before making these. The dough was still pretty cold even after sitting out for an hour and forty minutes, so it didn't rise much. It probably should have sat another half hour or more, but I got impatient. Does anyone else have to let your loaf rise more than 2 hours after refrigeration? That seems excessive.

Anyway, the crumb is dense, but it makes good sandwiches. The crust is perfect though: thick and crunchy.

[OliverB]

Well, this is very all very interesting and my first batch is in the fridge. Luckily I read (after I thought I was done) that KA flour will need more water, my dough was not really wet at all (not that I'd really know the difference, I've only made bread once before) but I was able to add some more water and it rose very nicely. I'm gonna let it sit for a couple more days to develop some more flavor.

The first bread I ever baked was the no knead one from CI and I was very disappointed. It looked great but tasted just about as bland as a slice of toast from the store, never made it again. Now I'll give this one a try but I'll also make some regular bread soon, I love kneading dough!

I shall report how things turn out once I bake the first one!

Oliver

[Chris Hennes]

Has anyone tried omitting the yeast in a second batch? The way I typically make this bread these days is to mix up a new batch when I am down to one loaf's worth of dough left. I was thinking that there is really probably no reason to add any yeast with the subsequent batches because the yeast leftover in the original batch should just start multiplying one it gets fed with the fresh flour, right? Like doing a sourdough, but with a commercial yeast? Does this seem reasonable?

[P1800Girl]

Chris,

It does sound reasonable to me, but I'm not a professional baker. At the very least, it would be an experiement with not a lot of sunk costs (flour is still relatively cheap).

I've had a continuous batch going now for 7 months strictly using sourdough, which IIRC, is never addressed in the book. I've made pitas, tortillas, pizzas, baguettes, cinnamon raisin bread, along with the classic boule all with sourdough.

Let us know what you discover.

-sabine

[Kerry Beal]

I think it should work. I've done similar with sourdough.

I've been rereading this thread tonight - if you go back to post 147 Zoe talks about using a natural levain.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Kerry Beal (log)

[OliverB]

Well, I baked my first one last night and am mostly impressed, though the taste was very mild, I'll definitely have to add some seeds or things like that next time. It was not as bland as the CI no knead bread though. I've had the dough in the fridge for not quite 3 days. It had shrunk a bit and I got hardly any rise out of it in the 40-50 min it was on the counter. I also did not slash deep enough I think, but it turned out beautiful, very crunchy crust and soft and moist interior. Denser than I expected, but certainly not heavy. I'll also add some whole wheat next time, plus some anise/coriander seed or maybe rosemary, something like that. Over all I'd call it a success, especially for being only my 2nd ever baked bread. We ate it all, here are some pictures:

sliced, dusted and ready to go

fresh from the oven

sliced in half

All in all I'm very happy and this was really super easy to make, a winner! I do love kneading dough, could do that for hours, but it's certainly more practical this way. I also love the small size of the loaf, we ate it all fresh and have no bread going stale to worry about. We don't eat bread every day, having this smaller loaf size is certainly nice. Question though, would a twice as large loaf bake just as well, or would it be better to bake two small ones? The kids are growing...

Oliver

[OliverB]

Well, made the 2nd loaf last night, the dough was now a bit over a week old. I had stored it in a large bowl in the fridge, some liquid had separated out on the side where I took the dough out last time. I formed it a bit different this time and sprinkled some anise and fennel seeds on. Baked per instructions after a bit over an hour of rest (where it barely rose).

The crust turned out great, very crunchy:

The crumb was about the same density, but there were a couple moist areas that could have baked a bit longer I guess?

It tasted good, a bit more tangy than the first one I guess, though it's hard to compare w/o having that one still around. The seeds definitely added to the taste, next time I'll throw some into the dough. All in all I like this approach, it's nice to be able to more or less decide on a whim to bake some fresh bread! We had a nice thick steak last night, some salad with fried quail eggs and the bread, all very good. Next I'm gonna try one of the variations in recipe from the book.

Anybody else create some of those? Or the different formed loafs? I can't wait to make the Pain d'Epi, though I'd make that with about 2lb of dough to get a larger loaf.

Fun stuff and stepping back into the kitchen from the bbq was just wonderful, the smell of fresh baking bread should be sold in bottles ;-)

Oliver

PS: I have a Jenn Air range and the oven has a vent in the top that goes into the downward sucking vent, is that an issue? Do all ovens have a vent? A lot of steam came out there. All turned out nice, but I'm wondering if I should increase the water a bit? If all ovens vent it's a non-issue I guess, but I have no idea if they do.

[highchef]

I bought the 5 minutes a day book along with Reinhart's (sp?) whole wheat bread book. I read through both and of course tried the easiest one first. I should have paid attention to the Reinhart's book warning of covering the glass in the door with a towel when adding the water (I saw it, read it, forgot it) and it cracked about half way through the 2nd batch of bread.

I really, really, really hope none of you make the same mistake, cause it's no myth. That glass cracked instantly when a drop fell on it, and it was one of those nano seconds you wish you could just redo.

Otherwise I've had great success with this, but did have to add a mile a day on the treadmill.

[CanadianBakin']

I bought the 5 minutes a day book along with Reinhart's (sp?) whole wheat bread book. I read through both and of course tried the easiest one first. I should have paid attention to the Reinhart's book warning of covering the glass in the door with a towel when adding the water (I saw it, read it, forgot it) and it cracked about half way through the 2nd batch of bread.

I really, really, really hope none of you make the same mistake, cause it's no myth. That glass cracked instantly when a drop fell on it, and it was one of those nano seconds you wish you could just redo.

Otherwise I've had great success with this, but did have to add a mile a day on the treadmill.

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You're not the only one . Mine's been broken now for a long time and it still seems to bake everything just fine. Apparently it's about $80 to fix but I just have never gotten around to doing it.

[highchef]

I bought the 5 minutes a day book along with Reinhart's (sp?) whole wheat bread book. I read through both and of course tried the easiest one first. I should have paid attention to the Reinhart's book warning of covering the glass in the door with a towel when adding the water (I saw it, read it, forgot it) and it cracked about half way through the 2nd batch of bread.

I really, really, really hope none of you make the same mistake, cause it's no myth. That glass cracked instantly when a drop fell on it, and it was one of those nano seconds you wish you could just redo.

Otherwise I've had great success with this, but did have to add a mile a day on the treadmill.

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You're not the only one . Mine's been broken now for a long time and it still seems to bake everything just fine. Apparently it's about $80 to fix but I just have never gotten around to doing it.

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I got it fixed friday, but it took weeks (special order glass). I noticed that the oven didn't seem impaired, but I'm sure it had to work overtime because I noticed the kitchen would warm up considerably when I used that one oven. When it was cool, it offset the heat coming on, but I live in Louisiana and seriously can't have a lot of added heat most of the year. Don't know the cost, they send a bill, but it's worth 80 bucks not to be reminded of my stupidity every time I turn it on!

[Jmahl]

I bought the 5 minutes a day book along with Reinhart's (sp?) whole wheat bread book. I read through both and of course tried the easiest one first. I should have paid attention to the Reinhart's book warning of covering the glass in the door with a towel when adding the water (I saw it, read it, forgot it) and it cracked about half way through the 2nd batch of bread.

I really, really, really hope none of you make the same mistake, cause it's no myth. That glass cracked instantly when a drop fell on it, and it was one of those nano seconds you wish you could just redo.

Otherwise I've had great success with this, but did have to add a mile a day on the treadmill.

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Interesting. we have been baking this recipe regularly for over a year and never had a problem. Still, interesting.

Jmahl

[Chris Hennes]

This last batch I made I went ahead and omitted the yeast in the subsequent batch: it worked exactly as expected. That is, it took quite a while to rise, but otherwise worked just great. The rise time isn't a problem, at least for me. When I took the dough for loaf number three (of four) out to proof, that's when I mixed up the next batch, so I just left it on the counter the rest of the day and then popped it back in the fridge before bed. I haven't tried baking with it yet, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work just fine.

[Chris Hennes]

And finally, the last confirmation: I baked up a loaf of the yeast-addition-omitted dough and it was effectively indiscernible from the other loaves. This is great: now I can stop going through yeast at such an astronomical rate (the problem with baking bread almost every day...).

[Jmahl]

And finally, the last confirmation: I baked up a loaf of the yeast-addition-omitted dough and it was effectively indiscernible from the other loaves. This is great: now I can stop going through yeast at such an astronomical rate (the problem with baking bread almost every day...).

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Outstanding Chris - I will have to give it a try.

Jmahl

[Heartsurgeon]

as far as yeast goes...you can get

two one pound vacumn sealed foil bags of yeast for $4.24 at Sam's Club...

i open one at a time and keep the yeast in a vacumn sealed jar (Foodsaver) in the fridge....enough yeast to last at least a year!! works just fine.

[tangaloor]

Shouldn't this procedure work with a sourdough starter instead of the commercial yeast? Of course there may be certain adjustments for the particular characteristics of your sourdough... Has anyone tried this?

[CKatCook]

I know the answer to my question is in here somewhere..I just don't find it... I baked my first loaf from this book yesterday and it was so wet it stuck to the cookie sheet without sides that I was using as a peel. I used alot of cornmeal on the sheet but it would not slide off I got one good misshapen loaf. The loaf was real small too, did everyone else notice that?

[Heartsurgeon]

you have to figure out what level of hydration works for the flour your using, and the size/shape of boule your trying to make.

you should switch to measuring your ingredients by weight (not volume) for

consistency.

i ended up liking 75% hydration (750 gms water per 1000 gms flour).

when i form my boules, i use liberal amounts of bench flour

when i let my dough rest before baking, i do it on a silpat, with a heavy layer of cornmeal.

when i move the boules to the oven, just tip them up slightly and slide a teflon spatula under one edge, then hoist them into the oven with minimal handling (the dough can be very sticky). forget about "sliding" the dough around.

i only make individual serving size boules (about the size of a plum before rising).

bigger boules get sloppy, and working with sticky runny dough can be problematic as you've learned.

non-stick, lots of bench flour, lots of cornmeal, minimal handling, modest sized boules...that's the evolution of my bread making.

i stopped making big boules because it would all get eaten before i got some.

now i make about 24 mini-boules out of each 1000 gm of flour, and i can

specify how many buns each family member gets to eat!

Edited May 21, 2009 by Heartsurgeon (log)

[saluki]

you have to figure out what level of hydration works for the flour your using, and the size/shape of boule your trying to make.

you should switch to measuring your ingredients by weight (not volume) for

consistency.

i ended up liking 75% hydration (750 gms water per 1000 gms flour).

when i form my boules, i use liberal amounts of bench flour

when i let my dough rest before baking, i do it on a silpat, with a heavy layer of cornmeal.

when i move the boules to the oven, just tip them up slightly and slide a teflon spatula under one edge, then hoist them into the oven with minimal handling (the dough can be very sticky). forget about "sliding" the dough around.

i only make individual serving size boules (about the size of a plum before rising).

bigger boules get sloppy, and working with sticky runny dough can be problematic as you've learned.

non-stick, lots of bench flour, lots of cornmeal, minimal handling, modest sized boules...that's the evolution of my bread making.

i stopped making big boules because it would all get eaten before i got some.

now i make about 24 mini-boules out of each 1000 gm of flour, and i can

specify how many buns each family member gets to eat!

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Heartsurgeon-

How much room are you leaving between the mini-boules? Also, are you baking them on sheet pans? ( if so half, full?)