"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)

[Channie]

Tino, I could have calculated that, of course. But look how easy it was to get you to do it for me!

Thanks!

[Zoe Francois]

Ah, but that's the beauty of baker's percentages ... regardless of the amount of flour you start with, the individual percentages of water, salt, and yeast remains the same. If you are doing an 81% hydrated dough, it doesn't matter if you start with 1#, 2#, or 10# of flour. Multiplying by the 0.81 gives you exactly the amount of water you will need.

In our case, 2# of flour = 908 g x 0.81 = 735g water.

Always remember though, the amount of water is variable, given the age of the flour, the humidity of the day, etc. There will always have to be a human judgment involved in determining if the dough looks and feels "right".

(As an aside, I based the original post about using 750g of flour on saluki's question earlier in the thread -- 6 1/4 cups of flour was specified. That's why I used that number.)

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Hi Tino,

I just want to add to your note that 81% hydration is for bread flour (or KA all-purpose) if you are using regular all-purpose (which is closer to 9-10% protein) then you will want 75-76% hydration.

I think most of you have ended up using a higher protein flour, but for those of you that are using AP then 81% is going to be a very wet dough.

Thanks again Tino!

Zoë

[Zoe Francois]

Our 1 cup measure is equal to 5 oz of unbleached all-purpose flour or 2# for the master recipe.

Tino, you explained baker's percentages very clearly, but I think you should base them on the 2# figure Zoe gave (907 grams?). Then we'd all be starting with the same amount of flour.

Zoe, I love your book and your enthusiasm... and of course the bread! Thank you so much for answering questions. I can't remember when I was so excited about a book!

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Thank you!!!!! This forum is really fun for me. I feed off of this conversation.

Zoë

[prasantrin]

Thank you for providing this info. Our next book will include weights and a primer on baking percentages! We have been pleasantly surprised at the number of people who do scale their recipes. Now we can go to the publisher and tell them people are asking for it. As you said, it is the only true way to get a consistent product.

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Does this mean the next edition of your current book, or a new book altogether?

[Zoe Francois]

Thank you for providing this info. Our next book will include weights and a primer on baking percentages! We have been pleasantly surprised at the number of people who do scale their recipes. Now we can go to the publisher and tell them people are asking for it. As you said, it is the only true way to get a consistent product.

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Does this mean the next edition of your current book, or a new book altogether?

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I'm hoping for this one! But, I've learned not to hold my breath. Next one for sure!

Zoë

[Zoe Francois]

To add a couple of notes about ricotta, which I make frequently.... Many recipes call for about a cup of heavy cream as well (in addition to the milk), which is how I always make it. You may also substitute some or all of the milk with buttermilk for a way tangier ricotta.

My ricotta of choice, though, is made with goat milk and heavy cream. Made exactly as noted above. You might want to stir in a little bit of salt once it's finished. It's so good I have to resist just eating it up bit by bit once it's chilled.

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I just have to tell you all that I made this ricotta with goat milk and heavy cream today and it is mind altering-ly good!

I made a calzone with the first bit. It kicks the calzone into another echelon of pizzeria foods! Then I put a scoop of plain warm ricotta over a bowl of cherries my husband had poached in red wine, a drizzle of honey and my entire family licked the bottom of the bowl!

Thank you Devlin for this idea! It is necessary to have this on hand!

Zoë

My only regret is that I only had enough goat milk and cream to make a half batch!

[saluki]

Okay my clear flour has arrived and I'm ready to experiment. But, before I start Can anyone tell me what per cent protein is Clear Flour so at least I would have some gauge as to what hydration I need in the rye bread recipe?

Any help would be appreciated

[mhjoseph]

Okay my clear flour has arrived and I'm ready to experiment.  But, before I start Can anyone tell me what per cent protein is Clear Flour so at least I would have some gauge as to what hydration I need in the rye bread recipe?

Any help would be appreciated

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I think that is 14% but it is a lower quality of protein than is found in AP or bread flours. I used all clear in place of all of the AP in the recipe and otherwise followed the recipe and it came out great.

[Jmahl]

Enjoying this thread and the bread as you can tell by my posts. On the discussion on percentages, take a look that

King Arthur Flour website guide to percentage calculation

I found this info. illuminating along with a lot of other interesting info.

keep baking,

Jmahl

[tino27]

Okay my clear flour has arrived and I'm ready to experiment.  But, before I start Can anyone tell me what per cent protein is Clear Flour so at least I would have some gauge as to what hydration I need in the rye bread recipe?

Any help would be appreciated

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Clear flour is not a type of flour, but rather a state of refinement between milling and fully-sifted, bleached white flour. Once the flour has been milled, it is sifted through various devices to remove things like the bran and the wheat germ. Clear flour is a point in the middle of this sifting process. You can Google it if you want more info.

The protein content of the flour you purchased is dependent on what type of wheat berry was used to make it. The easiest way to figure it out is to contact the manufacturer.

And unfortunately, knowing the protein content of your flour won't give you the exact amount of water you will need. Higher protein flours will require slightly more liquid than lower protein flours. That's really all that can be said. That's why Zoe's recipe with AP flour is 76% hydrated while bread flour requires 81%.

Your best bet is to make the recipe with varying levels of hydration with this particular flour, find out which amount of water works best, and then you can calculate the hydration level by doing this

Water (in grams)

------------------------ x 100 = Hydration Percentage

Total flour (in grams)

Hope that helps.

[Zoe Francois]

Okay my clear flour has arrived and I'm ready to experiment.  But, before I start Can anyone tell me what per cent protein is Clear Flour so at least I would have some gauge as to what hydration I need in the rye bread recipe?

Any help would be appreciated

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Although the clear flour may have a high protein content it will actually make a denser rye bread than if you use bread flour. As Tino pointed out clear flour is not very refined and will not act like high-gluten flour.

Marc, was this your experience, that the rye was denser and not lighter baked with the clear flour? This is a more traditional crumb.

Saluki, keep us posted! Zoë

[mhjoseph]

Okay my clear flour has arrived and I'm ready to experiment.  But, before I start Can anyone tell me what per cent protein is Clear Flour so at least I would have some gauge as to what hydration I need in the rye bread recipe?

Any help would be appreciated

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Although the clear flour may have a high protein content it will actually make a denser rye bread than if you use bread flour. As Tino pointed out clear flour is not very refined and will not act like high-gluten flour.

Marc, was this your experience, that the rye was denser and not lighter baked with the clear flour? This is a more traditional crumb.

Saluki, keep us posted! Zoë

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Well, this was my first experience baking rye bread so I can not say that it is more or less dense. What I can say is that is was the same texture and taste as a Jewish rye from bakeries that use the traditional techniques of a rye sour. It is something that I never thought would be achievable at home. The crust was maybe not as crisp but that can be worked on.

[saluki]

Thanks, Marc, Tino and Zoe,

I just baked my first bread using your book. And although I didn't know about the

hydration issue so the dough was not as moist as on your video; I am still amazed.

Aside from being the most beautiful bread I've made in a year of following the Lahey/bittman recipe with Steingarten modifications---It was also the first bread that tasted wonderful without being toasted. Bread was 205 degrees. Holes were a bit smaller than Lahey, but it had a wonderful flavor.

I used a six inch Banneton for the rising from Fante's (a suggestion from your site);

And I used a baking cloche.

Also, I sprayed the banneton with a canola spray before dusting it.

Instead of regular flour I used rice flour for dusting. I also sprayed the knife with the oil before making the slashes, since I've had problems with that before and CI had made that suggestion.

I had the dough in the fridge for 3 days before I used it and I let it rise outside the fridge longer than 1 hr and 40 min because my house is 63 degrees.

I inverted it onto parchment cover pizza peel since in a year of Bittman bread

I've discovered my aim leaves much to be desired.

Preheated cloche to 500 degrees for three quarters of an hour--turned it down to

450 and baked it for 25 minutes with lid and on the parchment--last 5 minutes

without lid.

I have pictures but don't have the vaguest idea of how to post them or whether you have to be a premium member to post?

I'm very excited to try the rye and keep experimenting.

Wonderful thread.

Edited February 11, 2008 by saluki (log)

[Pat W]

---It was also the first bread that tasted wonderful without being toasted. Bread was 205 degrees. Holes were a bit smaller than Lahey, but it had a wonderful flavor.

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That was one of the big surprises for me too. It's delicious warm or cold. My husband thinks it makes fantastic toast, but I actually prefer it untoasted. The flavor is as wonderful as the texture. This is great stuff! Zoe is definitely my hero.

pat

[Zoe Francois]

Thanks, Marc, Tino and Zoe,

I just baked my first bread using your book.  And although I didn't know about the

hydration issue so the dough was not as moist as on your video;  I am still amazed.

Aside from being the most beautiful bread I've made in a year of following the Lahey/bittman recipe with Steingarten modifications---It was also the first bread that tasted wonderful without being toasted. Bread was 205 degrees. Holes were a bit smaller than Lahey, but it had a wonderful flavor.

I used a six inch Banneton for the rising from Fante's (a suggestion from your site);

And I used a baking cloche.

Also, I sprayed the banneton with a canola spray before dusting it.

Instead of regular flour I used rice flour for dusting.  I also sprayed the knife with the oil before making the slashes, since I've had problems with that before and CI had made that suggestion.

I had the dough in the fridge for 3 days before I used it and I let it rise outside the fridge longer than 1 hr and 40 min because my house is 63 degrees.

I inverted it onto parchment cover pizza peel since in a year of Bittman bread

I've discovered my aim leaves much to be desired.

Preheated cloche to 500 degrees for three quarters of an hour--turned it down to

450 and baked it for 25 minutes with lid and on the parchment--last 5 minutes

without lid.

I have pictures but don't have the vaguest idea of how to post them or whether you have to be a premium member to post?

I'm very excited to try the rye and keep experimenting.

Wonderful thread.

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Hi Saluki,

I'm so pleased to hear that your first loaf was such a success. As you work with the dough and get the hydration to where you want it, you will find that you'll get larger holes in the dough.

I hope you can figure out the pictures so we can see them!

Thanks, Zoë

[Zoe Francois]

---It was also the first bread that tasted wonderful without being toasted. Bread was 205 degrees. Holes were a bit smaller than Lahey, but it had a wonderful flavor.

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That was one of the big surprises for me too. It's delicious warm or cold. My husband thinks it makes fantastic toast, but I actually prefer it untoasted. The flavor is as wonderful as the texture. This is great stuff! Zoe is definitely my hero.

pat

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Wow Pat, thanks! I'm blushing.

Zoë

[saluki]

Okay--I'll do better with the hydration in the next batch.

Thanks Rob- for the assistance in posting pics.

[jcarroll42]

Hi All,

I wanted to report my first trial trying to use a natural starter. I have a firm starter that I've made from northwest sourdough (http://www.northwestsourdough.com/). I'm keeping this in the fridge, and am trying to work out how to go from starter in the fridge to bread as efficiently as possible. Basically, here's my plan:

Day 1: remove small bit of starter, refresh to ~1/3 cup overnight.

Day 2: refresh overnight starter to ~1 cup (morning)

Day 2: make dough using master formula (3C water, 6.5C flour), 1.5 tbl salt, 1 cup starter. allow to rise ~6 hours, until more than doubled. Refrigerate.

Day 3: remove dough, shape, proof for ~3 hours and bake.

Baking: heat cast iron dutch oven to 450. Put shaped loaf in closed pan for 20 minutes, remove from loaf and place directly on rack, remove when crust done and inside temperature ~205-210.

So. I did all that, and first of all I had a hydration problem with my flour. I weighed my flour and water and came up with a hydration of ~65% (grams flour/grams water, correct?). I think that's very low, and it was certainly very firm. Not like what I've done with the no knead before. Rather than try to play with this, I decided to just drive on and make the first batch and see how it came out.

The crust was great - the dutch oven thing is great. I was watching a movie with my wife and brought the loaf in the room with us to cool - it was crackling throughout the movie. Oh, and my wife is now convinced that I'm a freak.

The flavor was great, even on day 2 in the fridge. Obviously, a lot of this is due to the starter, which did really well considering how little time I gave it to refresh.

The problem was the texture - obviously it was under hydrated to begin with and the crumb structure didn't develop well. It was also doughy and un-done even with the 210 on the thermometer.

So, for next time, increase the hydration. Suggestions? Also, I'll do a long proof - possibly in the fridge overnight. Is that working for people? I think I'll also drop the oven temperature as soon as I close the dutch oven - I'm thinking to 350-375, so that when the loaf gets on the rack by itself it'll cook a little slower.

Here's some pics. First, the thick ass dough:

Then, even though it was thick it rose nicely:

Here's the loaf, straight out of the oven, and before we went off to a movie together:

Here's the cut loaf showing the not-good texture:

First eGullet images - how'd it work?

- jeff

[blurby]

The crust was great - the dutch oven thing is great.  I was watching a movie with my wife and brought the loaf in the room with us to cool - it was crackling throughout the movie.  Oh, and my wife is now convinced that I'm a freak.

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I'm glad someone else does this! I'm always self conscious carrying loaves about the house

[tino27]

So.  I did all that, and first of all I had a hydration problem with my flour.  I weighed my flour and water and came up with a hydration of ~65% (grams flour/grams water, correct?).  I think that's very low, and it was certainly very firm.  Not like what I've done with the no knead before.  Rather than try to play with this, I decided to just drive on and make the first batch and see how it came out.

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You were close --

Hydration = grams water / grams flour

In Baker's Percentages, flour is always the denominator.

And if the hydration percentage is 65%, I would also agree that it is too low. You should probably start out at the 75-76% hydration level and see how the crumb is at that point.

[MiFi]

I have to say, I'm intrigued by paying attention to hydration, but I've been doing this for about two months and the Lahey recipe for almost two years, and I just wing it. I'm just happy to have homemade bread.

Peasant Loaf - doubled

[Jmahl]

I don't know what to call it but we just baked a loaf with a half cup of rolled rye and about 2 Tbs., of fennel seeds to the basic recipe of 2 lbs., of flour with the addition of 1/2 cup more water and 2 Tbs., honey. The taste and aroma are wonderful.

Jmahl

[Jmahl]

I don't know what to call it but we just baked a loaf with a half cup of rolled rye and about 2 Tbs., of fennel seeds to the basic recipe of 2 lbs., of flour with the addition of 1/2 cup more water and 2 Tbs., honey. The taste and aroma are wonderful.

Jmahl

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Photo of loaf from same batch --

Tasty.

Jmahl

[tsquare]

I substituted buckwheat for the whole wheat, expecting a disaster. Baked it in a loaf pan, great flavor and texture - kind of spongy, but the color was almost purple. Not bad, but weird. Really wet dough. I would do this again.

[Bubbles La Tour]

(snipped for brevity)

Hi Pam, When you go to make the pizza try to get it nice and thin and bake it at 550 degrees, putting your pizza stone on the bottom rack. If the stone is on the bottom the crust will get nice and crisp and the toppings will not burn!

Enjoy! Zoe

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After two tasty pizzas two nights ago, one of which was embarrassingly dark on top, I put the stone on the bottom rack as you suggest above. Fantastic results, Zoë! I baked the bare crusts on the stone for about two minutes at 550, flipped them over and put my toppings on the baked side. Back onto the stone for about 7 minutes and we were in pizza heaven with pizzas that looked as good as they tasted. I used the European Peasant dough for my crusts; the dough was mixed early this morning and I will try to leave it alone for a couple days before baking a boule or a baguette.