Feh! on NY Times article

[rlibkind]

Today's New York Times article on the drive to create an indoor public market in Gotham observes:

At the moment, nobody has proposed a big indoor market to rival the ones in San Francisco or even Philadelphia.[Emphasis added]

Feh! on Times' food writer Kim Seversen for the cheap shot. But kudos for acknowledging that Philadelphia's Reading Terminal Market, even if it goes unnamed in the article, is a rare gem.

[MarketStEl]

Today's New York Times article on the drive to create an indoor public market in Gotham observes:

At the moment, nobody has proposed a big indoor market to rival the ones in San Francisco or even Philadelphia.[Emphasis added]

Feh! on Times' food writer Kim Seversen for the cheap shot. But kudos for acknowledging that Philadelphia's Reading Terminal Market, even if it goes unnamed in the article, is a rare gem.

←

This is an affliction that has beset the Times for decades.

Their report on the opening of America's first subway on Sept. 1, 1897, included the passage, "That so conservative an American city as Boston is the leader in adopting this is viewed as unusual."

You mean to tell us that there are civilized places in this country not named New York? And some of them are very close to us? Horrors!

[Holly Moore]

Reminds me of the welcoming speech by the President of Cornell University when I matriculated. It was titled, "Perhaps Cornell," and referred to, I believe a NYT listing of the Ivy League Schools that started with Harvard, Princeton and Yale and ended with, "and perhaps Cornell."

[Holly Moore]

But kudos for acknowledging that Philadelphia's Reading Terminal Market, even if it goes unnamed in the article, is a rare gem.

←

A rare gem alas, under the current RTM board of directors, with a glaring flaw or two.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Holly Moore (log)

[orion]

I noticed that this morning as well and was a little peeved. Especially since I've been to the Ferry Market in SF a couple times and would definitely take the Terminal Market over it. Maybe I didn't spend enough time there, and I wasn't there on Saturday when they have the additional farmer's market outside, but it seemed to me no comparison as an all-around market.

And it's not as if SF, Seattle and Philly (the three American cities cited in the article) are the exceptions...NYC's the one lagging behind cities like Baltimore, Cleveland and Columbus in this regard, just to name a few.

[Holly Moore]

RTM is great. But I just did a Saturday farmers market at the San Francisco Ferry Terminal Building - covered both inside, and the outside rear and side parking areas. Gotta say, if I could just do one Farmer's Market, it would be the SFO Saturday market. It would be as if every grower represented by Fair Food Farmstand had their own individual stall.

However, that is inside and outside. Inside only, RTM is by far a grander market.

[hathor]

I hang my head.

I did volunteer work at the Wintermarket that day, I worked the information table, and when I went into the spiel about why we needed a market, I used the Philly market as a shining example of what NYC is missing.

No 'dis intended. It was more in the line of ....pure green eyed jealousy.

[rlibkind]

Judith, no need to apologize. We know you love the RTM and have spread the word of its virtues!

I'm sure the Ferry Terminal market is every bit as great as Holly and others describe. But there is a difference, which we sometimes tend to forget, between a farmers market and a public market.

Public and farmers markets are similar but not identical, so comparisons sometimes can be inappropriate.

The most important difference being that a public market is more than just farmers (indeed, farm stands aren't an essential part of a public market's mission, though they are much sought after additions and considerably more important than frills). A public market, in addition to produce vendors, offers butchers, fishmongers, cheesemongers, bakers, etc. It features everything you need to put a meal on the table.

A public market is also not strictly seasonal; it's open all year round and offers the full panoply of food, not just what's harvested locally. Most farmers markets are only open in the growing season, and the few that are open in winter have considerably more limited offerings, of course.

A public market isn't better than a farmers market, or vice-versa; they just have different approaches and goals in serving our appetites.

[Capaneus]

Judith, no need to apologize. We know you love the RTM and have spread the word of its virtues!

I'm sure the Ferry Terminal market is every bit as great as Holly and others describe. But there is a difference, which we sometimes tend to forget, between a farmers market and a public market.

Public and farmers markets are similar but not identical, so comparisons sometimes can be inappropriate.

The most important difference being that a public market is more than just farmers (indeed, farm stands aren't an essential part of a public market's mission, though they are much sought after additions and considerably more important than frills). A public market, in addition to produce vendors, offers butchers, fishmongers, cheesemongers, bakers, etc. It features everything you need to put a meal on the table.

A public market is also not strictly seasonal; it's open all year round and offers the full panoply of food, not just what's harvested locally. Most farmers markets are only open in the growing season, and the few that are open in winter have considerably more limited offerings, of course.

A public market isn't better than a farmers market, or vice-versa; they just have different approaches and goals in serving our appetites.

←

All true. And while RTM has a lot of tradition as what you call a public market, we lag far behind San Francisco - and NY as well, for that matter - in the development of Farmers' Markets

[MarketStEl]

All true. And while RTM has a lot of tradition as what you call a public market, we lag far behind San Francisco - and NY as well, for that matter - in the development of Farmers' Markets

←

I'd say we're playing a very good game of catch-up, though -- and that we do San Francisco (if not New York) one better in having two organizations that promote farmers' markets in neighborhoods throughout the region, both affluent and poor.

The Food Trust's Farmers Market Program has done especially well in that last regard -- and they took care of the neighborhoods first before making a big splash with their 25th farmers' market, in a space that was made for them, the New Market shambles. (Note the "Food Stamp Program" information on the left side of the page I've linked.)

To that we must add the 12 farmers' markets operated by Farm to City. While their locations tend to skew affluent, they too make an effort to serve a broad cross-section of the Greater Philadelphia community.

Sure we're not doing all that well?

[Capaneus]

All true. And while RTM has a lot of tradition as what you call a public market, we lag far behind San Francisco - and NY as well, for that matter - in the development of Farmers' Markets

←

I'd say we're playing a very good game of catch-up, though -- and that we do San Francisco (if not New York) one better in having two organizations that promote farmers' markets in neighborhoods throughout the region, both affluent and poor.

The Food Trust's Farmers Market Program has done especially well in that last regard -- and they took care of the neighborhoods first before making a big splash with their 25th farmers' market, in a space that was made for them, the New Market shambles. (Note the "Food Stamp Program" information on the left side of the page I've linked.)

To that we must add the 12 farmers' markets operated by Farm to City. While their locations tend to skew affluent, they too make an effort to serve a broad cross-section of the Greater Philadelphia community.

Sure we're not doing all that well?

←

Without presuming to know much about the programs available either in Philadelphia or San Francisco, I seem to recall having heard of precisely that sort of thing being implemented on the Left Coast well over a decade ago. Alice Waters was involved, but then she always is.

[rlibkind]

Sure, it would be nice to have more and more varied farmers markets. We can do better, but compared to most other cities we don't do badly at all during the growing season. Of course, San Francisco is about as close to the nation's largest produce-growing area as we are from the Susqhehanna River, and they've got a more temperate climate with a longer and more productive growing season. So, yes, we could do better, but all things considered, we do pretty well.

[Capaneus]

Sure, it would be nice to have more and more varied farmers markets. We can do better, but compared to most other cities we don't do badly at all during the growing season. Of course, San Francisco is about as close to the nation's largest produce-growing area as we are from the Susqhehanna River, and they've got a more temperate climate with a longer and more productive growing season. So, yes, we could do better, but all things considered, we do pretty well.

←

Right. These sorts of comparisons are only constructive, I think, when they are used to drive progress - the success of the Greenmarkets/Hudson Valley partnership most likely was a bit of a wakeup call to local producers, for one. We have a great program now, and it's getting better very quickly: the Sunday Headhouse Market raised the profile of Farmer's Markets around town immeasurably, and that's got to translate to higher demand, and that in turn will encourage new producers to jump into the pool. Those are great news, and that's where the focus should be.

[MarketStEl]

Right. These sorts of comparisons are only constructive, I think, when they are used to drive progress - the success of the Greenmarkets/Hudson Valley partnership most likely was a bit of a wakeup call to local producers, for one. We have a great program now, and it's getting better very quickly: the Sunday Headhouse Market raised the profile of Farmer's Markets around town immeasurably, and that's got to translate to higher demand, and that in turn will encourage new producers to jump into the pool. Those are great news, and that's where the focus should be.

←

You're right, and you're also right about Alice Waters, who is indefatigable about getting better food into the hands of lower-income food buyers. I should probably bone up on what's happening in the Bay Area before attempting further comparisons.

If the Headhouse Farmers' Market has the effect you postulate, then it is indeed all for the good, but it looks to me like the Food Trust had already made good strides well before it opened, judging from the list of ongoing and new locations for 2007 on their Web site. And we're all agreed that more can be done. I note that the Food Trust is now working on the corner stores, which could build on what the Urban Nutrition Initiative has been doing in the schools. (Granted, these two initiatives aren't really about promoting local produce as much as they are about promoting healthier eating in general in low-income communities, but the latter will ultimately benefit the former as people become more aware.)