Best Manhattan neighborhood for food?

[juuceman]

I'd position myself near the Union Square stop on the 4/5/6 trains. Like maybe I'd try to find a place on 16th or 17th between Fifth Avenue and Union Square West. That puts you within walking distance of several of the neighborhoods that I'd consider the top picks. You can walk to everywhere in the Union Square/Flatiron/Gramercy area. You can walk to the East Village, the regular Village and the Meatpacking/Chelsea area. And you live right on top of excellent transportation options for the neighborhoods you don't live in: 4/5/6, N/Q/R/W, L and PATH.

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ehh.. all things being equal, being on the East Side of Union Square is, in my opinion, a better way to go.. i lived on Union Square, just off of 5th for years and moved closer to Irving a few years ago.. it makes a world of difference.. there are very few neighborhood 'go to' options on the blocks that you mention, they're not really that residential, and for things like a cup of coffee in the morning, normal drop in lunch places, and neighborhood dining options, etc., you won't do that well.. you can easily hit the greenmarket, there are a bunch of under rated places to eat that you wouldn't make the trek from 5th to eat in but are great for Tuesday night dinners..

on the East Side of the Park, the walk across Union Square isn't a big issue, it puts you closer to the East Village, and you don't have to deal with the tourist overflow that those blocks give you..

[juuceman]

My only problem with Union Square is the lack of good affordable restaurants or decent bars within a two- to three-block radius (yes, now I'm being picky!), and the fact that it's too long a walk from Chinatown or from a decent Indian grocery. (EDIT: Also the fact that the USQ WF is a madhouse!)

This is my point in my post above. Go to Irving Place (Pete's Tavern, 71 Irving , Friend of a Farmer, Casa Mono, Bar Jamon, Pure Food and Wine, Cibar) and a whole new world of opportunities opens up to you though.

[Mayur]

Y'know what, though? None of those places really grabs me; I'd rather have Degustation or Mercat nearby than Bar Jamon/Casa Mono, 9th St Espresso than 71 Irving, and the rest of the places you listed just don't do it for me. That's really my problem with the USQ area.

[Mayur]

I've lived in NoLIta and I now reside in the WV.

If I had to pick one neighborhood to live in solely on the basis of food...it'd be the SW part of the EV (proximity to everything...including Ssam Bar, PDT and D&C!).

now leaving the food and cocktail question aside, the perk to my current hood is that having Giselle for a neighbor beats NYU co-eds....and the restaurant options aren't too bad either.

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Your neighborhood's also prettier than mine in general...

Seriously, though, the primary characteristic of a "good food" location is, IMO, median walking distance to desired options. My current walking distances are:

1) 2 min to D&Co. That's actually probably stretching it... an extra 2 min to PDT, and soon an extra 1 min to Phil and Ravi's impending tequila bar. 10 min to Pegu or M&H complete my necessary list; I don't need to drink more than that!

2) 5 min to Pylos for excellent Greek (IMO, the best in Manhattan), 7-10 min to Otto or Lupa for Italian (I'm not counting Babbo, since that goes in the "fancy restaurant I would cab to anyway" category), 7 min to WD-50 or Falai, 2 min to Brick Lane, 2-3 min to Prune, and 5 min to either Momofuku, Graffiti, Hearth, or UPN.

3) 15 min to Chinatown (or M&H for the alcoholics) and DiPalo's. Congee Village, Skyway, and the best fish markets are much closer since they're on Allen.

4) 3-5 min to an IMO perfectly decent supermarket (the Bowery WF), and an equal distance to a wonderful market (Essex).

5) Two greenmarkets (the not-so-great Orchard St, and the quite good Tompkins Sq) within 5 minutes.

6) 1 minute to Dual for spices, Indian dry goods, etc.

7) 3 min to d/b/a for beer, whisk(e)y, or other brown stuff.

8) 3-5 min to Il Posto Accanto for wine; I'll probably just head to Hearth from now on, though.

9) 10-15 minutes (man, those avenue blocks are long!) to 9th St Espresso for coffee, or 3 min to the Mudspot for everyday caffeination.

10) 5 min to SOS Chefs for truffles, foie gras, etc.

And so on. Other than work and actually visiting people, I tend to leave my "neighborhood" for:

A) The USQ Greenmarket, although with Paffenroth, Red Jacket, Ronnybrook, and Blue Moon (as well as an excellent, unnamed poultry vendor) at Tompkins, my incentive to do so is somewhat diminished. Still, it's only a 15 minute walk at the outside, and I've never felt the need to take a cab home.

B) Trader Joe's, although I rarely go due to the crowds.

C) Fancy restaurants. Those merit a cab, though, and advance prep (reservations) mean I'm not likely to notice the distance.

D) Serious ethnic shopping (Flushing, northern NJ, or Edison).

E) Astoria for Greek/Middle Eastern food.

F) The WV for Perry Street brunch, Spotted Pig late-night munching, and Blue Ribbon Market.

G) Fairway for serious grocery-loading; this is usually combined with a trip to LeNells now that there's one in Red Hook (yay!).

H) 9th Ave for Esposito's and International Grocery, plus the occasional binge at Casellula.

But everyone's neighborhood living probably works this way, in any case. People in the WV/NoLiTa/Chinatown (I'd *love* to live in Chinatown!) are as close to me as I am to them, etc. People near USQ, Midtown West, or way downtown have subway access that allows them to hit most everything. People in Jackson Heights are living in honest-to-goodness, actual ethnic New York. People in Park Slope are near A&J, Al Di La, and Franny's. And so on.

[Pan]

East Village = east of 3rd Avenue/Bowery, south of 14th Street, north of Houston Street. Dammit.

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I think east of Broadway. Am I historically inaccurate?

[Pan]

cue oldtimer explaining how east village was a broker rebranding of the LES... kinda like 'hudson heights'

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What's "Hudson Heights"?

[Pan]

[...]My only problem with Union Square is the lack of good affordable restaurants or decent bars within a two- to three-block radius (yes, now I'm being picky!), and the fact that it's too long a walk from Chinatown or from a decent Indian grocery.[...]

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Kalustyan's is at 26th and Lex, Spice Corner (or whatever) at 27th. That isn't very far. I'd estimate about 15 minutes walking time. About the same for Dual, 1st Av. between 5th and 6th.

I suppose it would take 25-30 minutes to walk to Chinatown, depending on which part.

[weinoo]

and the fact that it's too long a walk from Chinatown or from a decent Indian grocery.

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Kalustyan's is at 26th and Lex, Spice Corner (or whatever) at 27th. That isn't very far. I'd estimate about 15 minutes walking time. About the same for Dual, 1st Av. between 5th and 6th.

I suppose it would take 25-30 minutes to walk to Chinatown, depending on which part.

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To be a bit more exact, Kalustyan's is between 28th & 29th and Spice Mkt. is on the corner of 29th - I was just at K's yesterday. About 10-15 minutes max. walk from Union Square.

Chinatown indeed is a longer walk; however, hop the 6 to Canal St. and you're there in less than 10 minutes.

[Mayur]

[...]My only problem with Union Square is the lack of good affordable restaurants or decent bars within a two- to three-block radius (yes, now I'm being picky!), and the fact that it's too long a walk from Chinatown or from a decent Indian grocery.[...]

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Kalustyan's is at 26th and Lex, Spice Corner (or whatever) at 27th. That isn't very far. I'd estimate about 15 minutes walking time. About the same for Dual, 1st Av. between 5th and 6th.

I suppose it would take 25-30 minutes to walk to Chinatown, depending on which part.

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14 blocks as opposed to 1-2 blocks, and a subway ride as opposed to a walk, are significant differences in my book. YMMV.

[kathryn]

East Village = east of 3rd Avenue/Bowery, south of 14th Street, north of Houston Street. Dammit.

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I think east of Broadway. Am I historically inaccurate?

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I'm going off of what the NYT and NY Mag say.

See also, via Wikipedia:

Until the mid-1960s, the eastern side of Manhattan between 14th and Houston streets was simply the northern part of the Lower East Side, and shared much of its immigrant, working class characteristics with the area below Houston Street. A shift began in the 1950s with the migration of Beatniks into the neighborhood, and then hippies, musicians and artists in the 1960s. The area was dubbed the "East Village", to dissociate it from the image of slums evoked by the Lower East Side name, and to present the area as the new Greenwich Village, which had been popular with artists, but had become middle-class by then.

Newcomers and real estate brokers popularized the East Village name, and the term was adopted by the popular media by the mid-60s. As the East Village developed a culture distinct from the rest of the Lower East Side, the two areas came to be seen as two separate neighborhoods rather than the former being part of the latter

[Nathan]

another criterion:

late-night sophisticated eating.

in midtown you're mostly f----ed.

in the EV you have Ssam Bar and I'm guessing a lot of places are open til midnight. in the LES...well, you have Schiller's.

NoLIta has Balthazar and a lot of places serving til midnight.

but the WV rules this category. strangely enough...Morandi is pretty much dead and stops serving shortly after 11....even on weekends (the first McNally failure?)...meanwhile diners are walking into a packed Dell'Amina on weeknights at 12:30...Mas serves til 4, Blue Ribbon serves late, Spotted Pig serves food til at least 2...etc.

[raji]

cue oldtimer explaining how east village was a broker rebranding of the LES... kinda like 'hudson heights'

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What's "Hudson Heights"?

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Hudson Heights is Ft. Washington to the West Side, North of the GW and south of the Cloisters, it's a recent broker carving out of what is better known as Washington Heights, which until recently was considered to have more crime and (nothing implied)more Dominican, to the east is and moving south is also considered "dominicaland"

[raji]

Until the mid-1960s, the eastern side of Manhattan between 14th and Houston streets was simply the northern part of the Lower East Side,

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Yeah broadway/4th Avenue is pretty much the demarkation point. Anything west is Greenwich Village

[raji]

late-night sophisticated eating.

in midtown you're mostly f----ed.

in the EV you have Ssam Bar and I'm guessing a lot of places are open til midnight.  in the LES...well, you have Schiller's.

NoLIta has Balthazar and a lot of places serving til midnight.

but the WV rules this category.  strangely enough...Morandi is pretty much dead and stops serving shortly after 11....even on weekends (the first McNally failure?)...meanwhile diners are walking into a packed Dell'Amina on weeknights at 12:30...Mas serves til 4, Blue Ribbon serves late, Spotted Pig serves food til at least 2...etc.

Nah I disagree - but again, this is because of the Japanese factor - not only are all Japanese places, for the most part, open until midnight, but many later like Totto, Torys, Tsukushi, Sakagura - and I would consider all those places sophisticated compared to EV Japanese. Not Japanese, there's loads of latenight options. And Japanese is the new French. Win!

[weinoo]

another criterion:

late-night sophisticated eating.

in midtown you're mostly f----ed.

in the EV you have Ssam Bar and I'm guessing a lot of places are open til midnight.  in the LES...well, you have Schiller's.

NoLIta has Balthazar and a lot of places serving til midnight.

but the WV rules this category.  strangely enough...Morandi is pretty much dead and stops serving shortly after 11....even on weekends (the first McNally failure?)...meanwhile diners are walking into a packed Dell'Amina on weeknights at 12:30...Mas serves til 4, Blue Ribbon serves late, Spotted Pig serves food til at least 2...etc.

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LES has 'inoteca, Stanton Social, a couple of 24 hours joints serving falafel, schwarma, etc. (Berkeret), Congee Village, etc.

[Nathan]

good points all....but I think the WV wins that category still pretty easily...especially when considering variety...

[Mayur]

The LES also has Suba. And Katz's (don't forget Katz's!). Plus Royale for burgers. And at least one or two fair late-night Japanese places (raji can correct me on this, of course!). Brick Lane's open late weekends too.

raji: In general, are the places you listed open *late* (as in until 2am)? If so, which ones? (I get a jones on for yakitori, ankimo, and all sorts of other stuff at that hour, and as you said, the really good stuff in the EV pales next to those midtown places...)

[Pan]

cue oldtimer explaining how east village was a broker rebranding of the LES... kinda like 'hudson heights'

←

What's "Hudson Heights"?

←

Hudson Heights is Ft. Washington to the West Side, North of the GW and south of the Cloisters, it's a recent broker carving out of what is better known as Washington Heights, which until recently was considered to have more crime and (nothing implied)more Dominican, to the east is and moving south is also considered "dominicaland"

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Interesting. I have friends who live there and say they live in Washington Heights. Are the developers and brokers gonna keep coining more names until there's a new "neighborhood" every 2 square blocks or something? Are they giving the far west part of Harlem (west of Broadway) in the 130s and 140s a new name, too? What neighborhood is the West Harlem Fairway considered to be in now? Columbialand?

[raji]

cue oldtimer explaining how east village was a broker rebranding of the LES... kinda like 'hudson heights'

←

What's "Hudson Heights"?

←

Hudson Heights is Ft. Washington to the West Side, North of the GW and south of the Cloisters, it's a recent broker carving out of what is better known as Washington Heights, which until recently was considered to have more crime and (nothing implied)more Dominican, to the east is and moving south is also considered "dominicaland"

←

Interesting. I have friends who live there and say they live in Washington Heights. Are the developers and brokers gonna keep coining more names until there's a new "neighborhood" every 2 square blocks or something? Are they giving the far west part of Harlem (west of Broadway) in the 130s and 140s a new name, too? What neighborhood is the West Harlem Fairway considered to be in now? Columbialand?

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Yeah, my brother is smack dab there and calls it Washington Heights - it's more of a joke to them than anything else, but recent arrivals actually do call it Hudson Heights -

Remember when we were scoffing at "nolita"???

Isn't that part of Harlem now called Manhattanville? Or Hamilton Heights? They sure as hell are trying to not call it Harlem anymore - "harlem" makes it sound too expensive!!

Edited December 20, 2007 by raji (log)

[raji]

Back to the original argument - besides my own list - AMNY today published a compelling argument for Midtown, specifically Hell's Kitchen -

http://www.amny.com/news/local/am-hellskit...0,6368565.story

[raji]

The LES also has Suba. And Katz's (don't forget Katz's!). Plus Royale for burgers. And at least one or two fair late-night Japanese places (raji can correct me on this, of course!). Brick Lane's open late weekends too.

Uminoie on 3rd st bet 1st & 2nd ave is open until 1am/2am weekends. Kasadela is in alphabet city and is open until 12 or 1 - Sachiko's on clinton is open until midnight - Yozakura is open until 2am/4am, I haven't tried it yet, I'm hopping somebody has.... Then everything on St. Marks is open until 2am and 4am

raji: In general, are the places you listed open *late* (as in until 2am)? If so, which ones? (I get a jones on for yakitori, ankimo, and all sorts of other stuff at that hour, and as you said, the really good stuff in the EV pales next to those midtown places...)

Yes, Totto is open until midnight/1am, they used to stay open an hour later, all the foodies go early, however, so they can score the skewered polka-dot chicken beak which come only 1 per 5 chickens...

Sakagura is open until 1/2am, Coulda sworn Riki is open until 4am cuz the midtown Japanese resaturant community often convenes there after work, and a lot of the midtown izakaya like donburi, hizen, hagi, etc. open until 2amish