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The Best Dishwasher


docsconz

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I've searched the forum and while there re a number of topics that discuss dishwashers, for the most part they are discussed in relation to their perceived value. I am interested in what eGullet Society members consider the best dishwasher on the market. That makes a dishwasher "the best"? Forget about cost. The best dishwasher has to be ergonomically functional with a large capacity flexible enough to hold a variety of items to clean, do a great job cleaning even tough loads, be quiet, ecologically sound, reliable, easy to use and attractive. Is there a model that fits all those criteria?

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

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My husband! haha

(I'll go away now.)

Let the serious discussion begin.

Margo Thompson

Allentown, PA

You're my little potato, you're my little potato,

You're my little potato, they dug you up!

You come from underground!

-Malcolm Dalglish

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I would think, at the consumer level, it has to be Miele or Bosch.

We've had a Miele for 2 years now; extremely quite, cleans everything I can throw at it. Doesn't use a ton of soap - as a matter of fact, most people probably use too much dishwashing soap, filling up the dispenser even with less than full or extra dirty loads. Double tubbed so if it leaks, it doesn't destroy your floor; reliability, from everything I had read right at the top of the list, etc. etc. Others I know who have Bosch love theirs as well.

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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I'm fond of Miele as well, I'll admit. They're not cheap, but they don't seem to encounter the sort of problems I've suffered through with other makes.

(edited to add) following up on Margo, I'd vote for a well-trained son. It's just a long, painful investment to make, and then someone else will reap the long term benefits

Edited by Peter Green (log)
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I love Miele as well. It's extremely quiet, I can configure the racks in several different ways to accomodate even my largest 24 quart stockpot, and I can and do run it 5 or 6 times a day when I'm on a roll in the kitchen, and it just keeps on going. The stainless steel interior is a bonus, although more dishwashers are finally going this route and the filter is extremely easy to remove and clean.

Marlene

Practice. Do it over. Get it right.

Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

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Thanks for bringing this up, Doc. I am in the market myself and have been leaning toward a Bosch but suffering a bit from paralysis of analysis. This was the little push I needed. As soon as the ringing in my ears stops from having just run what must surely be the loudest freaking dishwasher in the western world (except perhaps for Margo's husband), I'm going to go pick one up. To paraphrase Mr. Bubble: it will make getting dishes clean as much fun as getting them dirty.

Judy Jones aka "moosnsqrl"

Sharing food with another human being is an intimate act that should not be indulged in lightly.

M.F.K. Fisher

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Thanks for bringing this up, Doc.  I am in the market myself and have been leaning toward a Bosch but suffering a bit from paralysis of analysis.  This was the little push I needed.  As soon as the ringing in my ears stops from having just run what must surely be the loudest freaking dishwasher in the western world (except perhaps for Margo's husband), I'm going to go pick one up.  To paraphrase Mr. Bubble:  it will make getting dishes clean as much fun as getting them dirty.

No, we have the loudest dishwasher. We only run it when we aren't home because it is too loud. It sounds like it is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

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It seems like Miele and Bosch are favorite companies. Any particular models stand out? Does anyone have any experience with Viking?

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

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I'm sure Margo's husband isn't loud. If he was squawking and complaining the whole time she would return him.

I have a 10-yr old Kitchenaid which is not terribly quiet, doesn't clean the dishes very well, and has a shallow upper shelf that does a poor job of securing wineglasses. I'm just being patient and waiting for it to completely busticate. If I were shopping for a new dishwasher now I would take a wineglass with me and see how it fits for depth and snugness.

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Does anyone have any experience with Viking?

Not personally but you might want to read about Viking here (scroll down):

Gastromaniac's

The 24 Inch Viking Professional Dishwasher is without a doubt the worst product I’ve ever owned. How bad does it suck? I wouldn’t recommend the 24 Inch Viking Professional Dishwasher to my enemies. Let me count the ways in which I hate this product:

Rust spots on the door. How this is possible, I don’t know, as the door is supposed to .... 

:huh:

Melissa Goodman aka "Gifted Gourmet"

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Whew. I know people who just spent over $1 million building a new kitchen/extension on their house. Actually more like 2 kitchens, never seen so many ovens & sinks & stoves for 1 house. Total Viking appliances. Good thing they've got money to burn. It's a beautiful space but it sounds lke they're in for a bumpy ride.

Thank God for tea! What would the world do without tea? How did it exist? I am glad I was not born before tea!

- Sydney Smith, English clergyman & essayist, 1771-1845

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We bought a Bosch Evolution dishwasher (SHE66C05UC) two years ago. It is elegant looking (stainless with hidden controls), has a stainless interior, is very quiet, and cleans the dishes nicely. No complaints.

I just searched online for reviews of our model and found some gripes, mostly about the layout of the interior. One person suggested that potential buyers take a load of dishes to the appliance store to test the loading design and capacity of various brands and models.

I can see that there might some personal preference involved. Some people might have odd sized dishes, or for some reason go through ten glasses for every fork. We have lived in several other places temporarily during the last year and the layout of all of our dishwashers seemed fine. So maybe we just aren’t very picky.

We were not terribly concerned about the cost but don’t like to throw away money needlessly. We looked at Miele, but didn't see what there was to gain from the additional cost.

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The best dishwasher has to be ergonomically functional with a large capacity flexible enough to hold a variety of items to clean, do a great job cleaning even tough loads, be quiet, ecologically sound, reliable, easy to use and attractive.

My personal experience, while not vast, involves using a fairly significant number of dishwashers in people's homes. I wouldn't state this as a scientific fact, however my strong anecdotal experience has been that there is a tension between "do a great job cleaning even tough loads" and "ecologically sound," if by ecologically sound you mean it conserves water.

The European dishwasher paradigm seems to be to use as little water as possible and to rely on various design features to help leverage that water to do a good job cleaning. The American dishwasher paradigm seems to be all about brute force: pour three times as much water in as the European dishwashers use, and spray the crap out of the dishes until they're clean. Unfortunately for the planet, the brute force approach works pretty damn well. I've found that American dishwashers costing less than $500 do a better job cleaning crusted-on food from dishes than $1,000+ European dishwashers. The Bosch and Miele dishwashers I've worked with have been objects of beauty, very efficient, super-quiet, etc., but they don't really blast the caked-on grime out the way a Whirlpool will.

There are some energy savings to more powerful dishwashers, namely that they truly eliminate the need for pre-rinsing. One thing I appreciate about my KitchenAid is that I pretty much never have to pre-rinse anything. Just to test the abilities of the dishwasher, I've occasionally put a stainless saucepan in there with overnight crust -- the kind of crust you need steel wool to get off by hand. And it has cleaned them flawlessly. Whereas I've seen, on numerous occasions, dishes come out of fancy European dishwashers with stuff still stuck to them, and on other occasions I've seen people stuck in the habit of pre-rinsing most everything in order to preempt that situation. Also, a dishwasher that can really clean caked-on stuff can be left with dirty dishes in it until it's full -- so you never have to do a quarter-load. Whereas, if your dishwasher is weaker, you have little choice but to pre-rinse or to run it as soon as it's loaded. My KitchenAid is not loud, not ugly, but it is not as quiet or attractive as a European dishwasher. It cost more than a Whirlpool and less than a Bosch or a Miele.

I agree that personal behavior has a lot to do with the efficacy of the interior racks. I got really lucky with our dishwasher -- it works amazingly well for the dishes we have and for the ratios in which we use them. I can't imagine being able to anticipate that, even by bringing a load of dishes to the appliance store. Sometimes it's just dumb luck.

I believe Consumer Reports disagrees with me, by the way. They've done side-by-side tests where they take various dirty dishes and run them through dishwashers, and they say the Euro-dishwashers hold up just fine. I would take that as more reliable testimony than mine, except that I've found Consumer Reports to be so unreliable in general that I'm actually more inclined to believe my own eyes even on a limited sample set. Also, while Bosch is a European company, the dishwashers are I believe made in North Carolina. There are also Asian dishwashers, most notably LG, but I've never used one.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Purely anecdotal, but I have what was at the time (five or six years ago) the top-of-the-line Bosch, and right after the warranty ran out (of course) the control panel went. Only one button works anymore, so we wash all dishes on the "regular" cycle. It will cost $600 to buy a new one. I could buy a whole freakin' new dishwasher for that much!

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I've found that American dishwashers costing less than $500 do a better job cleaning crusted-on food from dishes than $1,000+ European dishwashers. The Bosch and Miele dishwashers I've worked with have been objects of beauty, very efficient, super-quiet, etc., but they don't really blast the caked-on grime out the way a Whirlpool will.

I don't pre-rinse (the instructions specifically state to scrape), have put plenty of items (pots, pans, etc.) with crusted-on food into, used the proper amount and recommended brands of soap, used the proper cycle, and have never had a dirty item emerge from my sub $1,000 European, 2+ year-old Miele dishwasher...

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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I've found that American dishwashers costing less than $500 do a better job cleaning crusted-on food from dishes than $1,000+ European dishwashers. The Bosch and Miele dishwashers I've worked with have been objects of beauty, very efficient, super-quiet, etc., but they don't really blast the caked-on grime out the way a Whirlpool will.

I don't pre-rinse (the instructions specifically state to scrape), have put plenty of items (pots, pans, etc.) with crusted-on food into, used the proper amount and recommended brands of soap, used the proper cycle, and have never had a dirty item emerge from my sub $1,000 European, 2+ year-old Miele dishwasher...

me either.

Marlene

Practice. Do it over. Get it right.

Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

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We just bought one of the top of the lines Whirlpool( it was 900.00 in SS). Its got a stainless interior, and a million settings. Its quite, energy star rated and works well. We've never used heated dry and the dishes come out bone dry anyway. We're pleased with it so far....

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As I prepare to renovate a kitchen, I have been asking friends and the names that keep coming up are Miele, Asko and Bosch. I haven't had a change to compare features or reviews but I feel pretty strongly that I will end up with one of those brands. Probably one of those for washer and dryer, as well.

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A few years ago I replaced my ancient dishwasher with a Bosch. That decision was based as much on the quiet factor as much as recomendations from friends who loved theirs. I'm very happy with it, but I would concur with Fat Guy's comments that doesn't do a great job of cleaning a really crusty pan (a friend with KitchenAid brags about its ability to clean anything).

The features I like most:

- the height of the top rack is adjustable. With previous dishwashers, it used to bug me that there was never quite enough room in the top rack for mid-size plates while I rarely needed all the height in the lower rack. I'd gone to the appliance store planning on buying a lower-priced model but the moment the sales guy showed me this feature, I did not hesitate to upgrade.

- several energy savings features, including a top rack only wash, which is great for small loads. Another selling point, esp. since the adjustable top rack at the lowest level can hold decent sized plates and bowls easily. Nice between full loads.

- it is really, really, quiet.


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John, another virtue you mention is reliability. I'd also suggest that the other side of that coin is repair service. No matter what dishwasher you get, eventually something is likely to happen to it.

If you live in a place like New York City, where high-end Euro-appliances are as common as pigeons, you're not going to have any trouble getting an Asko dishwasher repaired. I wouldn't be as confident about that if I lived in Burlington, Vermont, no less a smaller town.

One of my few appliance-repair experiences was when I lived in Burlington. The 1970s Whirlpool refrigerator in the house went dead and I called Whirlpool for service. A guy came in a van that actually said Whirlpool on it. He had a huge assortment of Whirlpool parts in the van. In my case the refrigerator was an older model, so he still had to order me a new compressor and come back, but he said that for almost any Whirlpool product built in the 10 preceding years he had the parts to deal with the most common repairs. He knew the products inside and out and made a quick diagnosis and, when he came back with the part a couple of days later, he made the repair so quickly I couldn't believe it.

My understanding of what happens with the niche brands like Asko is that there isn't actually an Asko guy with an Asko truck up in Burlington. Rather, there's some independent appliance guy who's authorized by a bunch of brands to perform service. I don't have nearly as much confidence in that kind of service network as I do in one that's dedicated to a specific brand or the brands of a large retailer.

So, if I lived in a smaller town, I would likely not buy any appliance that isn't made by GE or Whirlpool (maybe Maytag -- actually maybe my Burlington refrigerator was a Maytag and I have the story transposed wrong) or sold and serviced by Sears. I've actually had this discussion with a couple of sets of friends who moved away from the New York metro area and in both cases they chose really nice top-of-the-line GE appliances, which in my opinion are quite close in attractiveness and performance to the best of what you get from the niche brands. So the only Euro-dishwasher I'd even consider would be Bosch, because you've got to figure that since Sears is selling Bosch you can probably get a Bosch repaired effectively just about anywhere. But if I lived up where you live I'd probably get the best GE Monogram dishwasher (if I had a big house I'd get two of them) and call it a day.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Oh, and another related issue is installation. A lot of appliances have various special things that need to be done to them when they're installed, like the door has to be attached or something has to be calibrated or there are other little quirks that veteran installers learn about through long experience. Most contractors think they can install anything, and when it's time to do so they just wing it and figure it's all the same. In those couple of hours, when the installers are fiddling and banging and trying to install a product they don't know well, an appliance can sustain more damage than it's going to sustain in the next seven years under normal kitchen use. So that's another argument for going with brands like GE, where the local installer is likely to have installed a million of them before.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Does anyone have any experience with Viking?

Not personally but you might want to read about Viking here (scroll down):

Gastromaniac's

The 24 Inch Viking Professional Dishwasher is without a doubt the worst product I’ve ever owned. How bad does it suck? I wouldn’t recommend the 24 Inch Viking Professional Dishwasher to my enemies. Let me count the ways in which I hate this product:

Rust spots on the door. How this is possible, I don’t know, as the door is supposed to .... 

:huh:

We have two Vikings at work, and they're horrible. The racks don't fit right (even after being replaced) so if they're full, the weight of the dishes pulls them off the guides. The flatware basket is awkward and somehow collects water, so if you remove it when the dishes are done and dry, you get splashed. I'm not sure how long a regular cycle takes, but it seems like about 18 hours. They are quiet, though.

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John, another virtue you mention is reliability. I'd also suggest that the other side of that coin is repair service. No matter what dishwasher you get, eventually something is likely to happen to it.

If you live in a place like New York City, where high-end Euro-appliances are as common as pigeons, you're not going to have any trouble getting an Asko dishwasher repaired. I wouldn't be as confident about that if I lived in Burlington, Vermont, no less a smaller town.

One of my few appliance-repair experiences was when I lived in Burlington. The 1970s Whirlpool refrigerator in the house went dead and I called Whirlpool for service. A guy came in a van that actually said Whirlpool on it. He had a huge assortment of Whirlpool parts in the van. In my case the refrigerator was an older model, so he still had to order me a new compressor and come back, but he said that for almost any Whirlpool product built in the 10 preceding years he had the parts to deal with the most common repairs. He knew the products inside and out and made a quick diagnosis and, when he came back with the part a couple of days later, he made the repair so quickly I couldn't believe it.

My understanding of what happens with the niche brands like Asko is that there isn't actually an Asko guy with an Asko truck up in Burlington. Rather, there's some independent appliance guy who's authorized by a bunch of brands to perform service. I don't have nearly as much confidence in that kind of service network as I do in one that's dedicated to a specific brand or the brands of a large retailer.

So, if I lived in a smaller town, I would likely not buy any appliance that isn't made by GE or Whirlpool (maybe Maytag -- actually maybe my Burlington refrigerator was a Maytag and I have the story transposed wrong) or sold and serviced by Sears. I've actually had this discussion with a couple of sets of friends who moved away from the New York metro area and in both cases they chose really nice top-of-the-line GE appliances, which in my opinion are quite close in attractiveness and performance to the best of what you get from the niche brands. So the only Euro-dishwasher I'd even consider would be Bosch, because you've got to figure that since Sears is selling Bosch you can probably get a Bosch repaired effectively just about anywhere. But if I lived up where you live I'd probably get the best GE Monogram dishwasher (if I had a big house I'd get two of them) and call it a day.

I guess it depends on where you live or the people you buy your appliances from. I don't live right in Toronto, but in a smaller town about 45 minutes west. The appliance dealer that I bought all my appliances from also arranges for service, for as long as I own the appliance. If anything breaks down, (and I recently had to have my Dacor coffee machine serviced), I just call them. It's never been an issue, nor have I had to wait more than two days for a serviceman, (which is going to be just about the same no matter what brand you buy), or wait again because they didn't have parts.

Marlene

Practice. Do it over. Get it right.

Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

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