Restaurant suggestions for two women

[mrsqft]

I am looking for suggestions for one or two starred restaurants in Paris where two women would feel comfortable. I have had some very negative experiences when we arrive at a nice restaurant and they realize that is "just women." I did not know quite how to react since I had had eaten at some of these places with my husband and there were no problems. I have eaten at Violin'd Ingres and had a fabulous experience on many occasions but i would like to branch out. Sometimes I think that between being a woman and an American they might not let me in the door!

[Bux]

I can't relate to your problem and I don't mean that as a kiss off. It's just that not being a woman I suppose I have had no way of running into your problem and need to ask exactly what sort of negative experiences you've had, if I'm to offer suggestions about how to turn them around. No matter how attractive you are, as long as you're not taking seats at the bar, no one should think you're hookers. Women have the reputation of being lousy tippers, but since the service is built in to the French prices, that becomes a very minor concern. Women have the reputation of not drinking as much and perhaps of not knowing wines. Ask for a wine list quickly or speak to the sommelier if you want to dispel that notion. If you don't speak French, it should be no worse than a man who doesn't speak French.

Before I comment further, I'd be interested in learning what sort of negative experiences you've had so far and at what level of restauant.

[jaybee]

I am looking for suggestions for one or two starred restaurants in Paris where two women would feel comfortable.

Bring me.

[mrsqft]

I usually go to Paris once a uear with my sister. I am in my early 50's so I can't imagine that I look like anything but the middle aged woman I am. For example, at Restaurant Marty they wanted us to sit upstairs in a room so we wouldn't get too near the French. that would have been fine but one of the women was in a leg cast and could not make the very narrow stairs. They actually argued with us about it. We waited 30 or so minutes to get menus and the waiter threw the check at us as they served coffee. I realize that sometimes the French get nervous that too many Americans would scare away the French and that happens even with my husband who speaks fabulous French. I just want some place that has wonderful food and thinks I have some value even if it is only for my signature on the credit card . We eat in bistros like Bistro du Dome but we like a couple of really special places at some point in our stay on the order of Violin ' Ingres. We are moderate wine drinkers and tip well if people treat us well.

Jaybee, my sister lives in Moscow and we meet once a year to bond by eating and shopping. It is not a guy thing. Thanks for asking.

[jaybee]

Aside from my being flip, are you staying at a hotel with a good conceirge? If so, enlist his/her aid in making the reservation and explaining what you want. Restaurants are more responsive to hotel conceirges since they can put a lot of business their way.

You might also send a fax written in French (get someone to translate in idiomatic French) in advance when you make a reservation. The french respond better and show more respect for French-speaking Americans. The fact that when you get there, you spealk in English should not change things.

[Bux]

Jaybee, as I read this thread, she has no problem getting a reservation, but gets shabby treatment when she arrives. Nevertheless, I concur with the suggestion of using a concierge to get the reservation. That way, they know you'll likely complain to the concierge about poor treatment.

I don't know Brasserie Marty, but passed it on a recent visit to a friend's apartment and that's not a very touristy neighborhood. I would expect tourists are not a problem for them and that their clientele is largely local. Or is that a typo and do you mean Marly by the Louvre. If the latter, they may well get loads of Americans and be used to dealing with them as well as depend on them for business.

Has this happened elsewhere? I think it's important not to let yourself be intimidated although I also understand you don't want to go around subjecting yourself to abuse. I know we have women who post here from time to time and who have dined alone or with other women and have not complained. Some of them are fluent in French, that may make a difference, but it would still be nice to see a post mentioning restaurants where they've been well treated. My guess is that the good treatment you received at Violin d'Ingres is more the norm. Have you tried le Dome, the more upscale sibling to the Bistrot du Dome?

[mrsqft]

Restaurant Marty is in the 5th and probably does not have a lot of tourists. I think part of the problem is my French which is pretty terrible. I have eaten at the Dome and it is fine but I wanted some place more like Violin 'd Ingres with a name chef and all of that. I could go to one of the hotels which probably would be the answer like the Bristol. I think I will send my list when it is done to the hotel and let them deal with it. That is an excellent suggestion. I did have someone French make all my reservations last time so we were probably a surprise. However, there is no getting around the fact that they like to seat all the Americans together. I noticed this in at Chez Catherine not too long ago. The American woman next to me asked why were seated next to each other. I expained my theory that they think we have cooties and they don't us want to get too closeto their french clients.

[pirate]

I am male. When I went to Marty for lunch, they put me upstairs. Perhaps all Americans except Patricia Wells are exiled. It was her comments that interested me in trying it. Service okay but food mediocre and no bargain. At the time I regretted not heeding Jeffrey Steingarten's advice and gone to one his top recommendations, a bistro within walking distance of Marty but up in the 13th. I personally would not go back to Marty. Does eGullet have a black list?

[Bux]

It does help to speak some French as well as to have a certain familiarity with the restaurant or at least restaurants of the type in which you want to eat, but you have to start somewhere and you shouldn't let a lack of French stop you if you can understand at least enough to order from the menu. I was going to suggest that some hotel restaurants are more likely to value foreign trade.

It's possible to be naive about how non French speaking customers are seen and it's also possible to be paranoid about it. Very often a restaurant will endeavor to see that diners who speak English are served by a waiter prepared to answer their questions in English. That's another reason they may seat English speaking diners near each other. I have also, I'm sorry to say, seen clueless Americans disrupt a restaurant with endless and absurd questions and then send back the food because they didn't understand what they were ordering, so I understand why restaurants get a bit nervous if they have the least reason to suspect the prospective client is unfamiliar with their food, customs or standard dining protocol. It becomes our responsibility, just to ourselves to send the right signal as soon as possible, if we want the best service. Climbing stairs on crutches, or in a foot cast, is absurd, but sometimes we have to pay a small price to learn how to send those signals. Of course if we object to sitting next to an American, what do we expect from the French?

[mrsqft]

I usually do well in French restaurants since I taught cooking. My menu French is fine and I have landed in many places where not a word of English was spoken. A smile and little pointing go a long way. However, I have been in restaurants that do this even though my husband speaks perfect French with a Parisan accent. They aways ask my husband if he lives in France-that gets us a better table. If he answers that we live in Chicago we are seated with the Americans. I now say nothing until we are seated. However, when I am with my sister I can't get away with that. Bux, it has nothing to do with our manners or knowledge. I love going to France but some of those French waiters can be annoying. I don't mind sitting with Americans,I just don't want to always sit with them. By the way I went to Restaurant Marty because of Patricia Wells. What does that say? So, any restaurant suggestions?

[pirate]

Let me add a little more about Patricia Wells. On an earlier occasion, I entertained 4 French guests at the Bastide Odeon (another of her recommendations). My guests all praised the food but I knew it was mediocre. It reminds me of my early trips to Paris. I was lunching at Chez Garin (which deserved 3 Michelin rosettes and never got them). I got into a conversation with a Man dining at the next table (rather gloriously). He turned out to be a publisher, in particular, the publisher of Curnonsky. He inquired if I knew about him and I said yes . The publisher told me that Curnonsky wrote beautifully about gastronomy but did not have much taste in food.

[cabrales]

My third post today.

First Recommendation: Flora. I believe the restaurant of Flora Mikuni, roughly opposite the Four Seasons Georges V hotel in the 8th arrondisement, would be welcoming to two women. The chef is a woman, and the two dining room team members that assisted the male maitre d' (apparently maitre d') in the room I was in (there are three rooms, plus a very small quasi-private dining area) were women. The service style is friendly and intimate, and I dined there recently solo (as I tend to do).

The chef used to work at Les Olivades, and the cuisine, while not to my tastes, would not be a poor value. A five (??)-course tasting menu I did not sample was 50 euros/person. I ordered the following:

(1) Raviolis de langoustines dans un consomme de crustaces aux petits legumes (Raviolis of langoustines in a shellfish consomme with small vegetables; 18 euros). The pasta was heavy and pasty, and the consomme lacked subtlety.

(2) Travers et mignon de cochon au miel et epices, galette de polenta aux pistaches (18 euros). Portions of the pork were wrapped with some type of ham-like item, and were average. Also included was a rib-like section that had decent skin portions, but was slightly overcooked.

(3) Dessert of pain perdu with mirabelles and mirabelle sorbet (8 euros). This was quite good, and we are in the midst of the somewhat short season for these little yellow plums.

Wine was ordered by the glass -- champagne bottled for the chef (less than 8 euros) and a glass of white, Menetou Salon 2001 (5 euros).

36 Avenue Georges V, 01 40 70 10 49 (reservations required).

Second Recommendation: La Regelade. On my only visit, two of the three dining room team members were women. This restaurant is busy, and the team was efficient and professional (but perhaps slightly rushed) with respect to all clients. Again, I dined alone. Reservations are also clearly required at this facility.

With all respect to your desire to consider friendliness towards two women in choosing a restaurant, my own, subjective guiding principle has been to choose a restaurant based on cuisine. I am younger than the women in question and dine solo, and therefore arguably am as susceptible to certain negative gender-based perceptions of women as diners. However, I have always been treated very well by restaurants at all levels in France. Indeed, I find that I frequently receive free and/or special dishes, even from restaurants visited for the first time

[ivan]

...my sister lives in Moscow and we meet once a year to bond by eating and shopping...

I have the perfect solution: meet your sister in Moscow. Eat in all the best restaurants, then post some reviews here! I'd love to find out what the state of Russian culinary arts is these day.

As for Parisian restaurants, I can't recall ever once having a bad experience. Rather than being ghettoized, I remember being seated cheek-to-jowl with Parisians, who smiled benignly at my pathetic attempts to order in French. These were fairly modest restaurants, almost all of them from Patricia Wells' book. However, that was years ago, so maybe attitudes have changed. I am sorry if that is so.

[PaulaJK]

Mrsgft...I want to offer some words of encouragement. While

we all accumulate expereinces/stories along the road of life,

I've really had very nice experiences dining ALONE or with a

lady friend in Paris [& outskirts]. And certainly, it's not based

on my age or language skills. I've enjoyed Violin d'Ingres as

well as Relais d'Auteuil [charming, english fluent maitre d'] ,

Astrance [the same], Gerard Besson, Guy Savoy [ever so

solicitous], Le Bellecour, Michel Rostang, Chez George and

L'Angle de Faubourg/ ?sp and L'Astor. I'm sorry for your

negative experience because it lingers.........but try, try

again. I find dining alone here in NYC much more of a problem!

[42390]

You may want to try Michelin 1 star Helene Darroze at 6 Rue Assas. The chef is female, as were a number of the dining room staff.

I had a great lunch there in April of this year, wine by the glass included with the fixed

price menu for about 70Euros.

[StephenT]

I can't relate to your problem and I don't mean that as a kiss off.

Well given the practice of only giving menus with prices on them to men and menus without prices to women, how are they going to know how much things cost?

[David Bizer]

L'Angle du Faubourg is quite good, and the sommelier is a woman, very friendly and helpful. I think they have their first star...not sure on that.