The dark and the light (chicken, that is)

[Fat Guy]

At the grocery stores near me, here in the New York metropolitan area, white (aka light) meat chicken costs almost exactly twice as much as dark meat chicken. That is to say, if you buy whole chicken breasts with bones, the per-pound price is double that of the per-pound price for thigh-leg quarters. There are also sales that come along, where they practically give the dark meat away for free. This pricing pattern seems to hold true everywhere I've been in the United States.

Yet, just about every foodie type I know agrees that dark meat is superior to white. It has more flavor, it's moister, it's better.

Apparently, in Japan, the pricing scheme reflects just such a preference: I have it on good authority that in Japanese supermarkets dark meat chicken costs about twice as much as white.

In addition to being curious about all of your thoughts on this matter, I'm also interested to know what the pricing ratio is in your nation. Is dark or light more expensive in France, Australia, Madagascar . . . ?

[jsmeeker]

I'm glad I live in the USA and not Japan.

What about whole chicken prices in Japan? Do they fall in the middle?

I will say I think the pricing in the USA reflects the preference of the consumer. Remember, us foodies are the minority.

Edited October 11, 2007 by jsmeeker (log)

[prasantrin]

I'm glad I live in the USA and not Japan. 

What about whole chicken prices in Japan? Do they fall in the middle?

I will say I think the pricing in the USA reflects the preference of the consumer.  Remember, us foodies are the minority.       

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I find whole chickens to be even more expensive than buying either thigh or breast parts, especially when you take into account that you're paying for bones in addition to meat, while with parts, you're only paying for the meat (chicken is almost always sold boneless, and it's rare, at least in my area, to buy chicken bone-in).

In my area of Japan, when one sale I can get breasts for about Y80/100g, and for thighs, maybe Y120/100g. Whole chickens are maybe Y150/100g, depending on where I get them (cheaper at Costco, but those birds have really thick, tough skin and there's no point in roasting a bird if you can't enjoy the skin).

Wings also more expensive than breast or thigh pieces.

[CaliPoutine]

Chicken in Ontario( maybe all of Canada) is very expensive. Boneless, skinless breasts are around 5.99-799lb. They'll often go on sale for 3.99lb. Bone-In breasts can be had on sale for 1.99lb. I just got some boneless, skinless thighs for the Seniors for .99lb. Thats rare though, I've made friends with the butcher at the local market so he tells me in advance when things on special are coming into the store.

Generally, in this area, dark meat tends to be cheaper, but not that much cheaper.

I think Poultry is regulated in these parts.

I'll often bring poulty back from MI. I get bone-in breasts for .99lb most times. Sometimes 1.29lb. Boneless, skinless is 1.99. Thighs and legs can be had for .69lb.

[infernooo]

I will add Northern suburbs in Sydney, Australia. At supermarkets, the usual weekly special is:

Skinless, boneless chicken breast fillets: AU$8-11 / kg ~= US$ 3-5/ lb

Skinless, boneless chicken thigh fillets: AU$7-10 / kg ~= US$ 2.5-5/ lb

Skin on, bone in chicken thighs: AU$3-4 / kg ~= US$ 1.5-2 / lb

Chicken wings: AU$2-4 / kg = US$ 1-2 / lb

Chicken legs: AU$2-4 / kg = US$ 1-2 / lb

Chicken necks: AU$2 / kg = US$ 1-2/ lb

Chicken frames/bones: AU$2-4 / kg = US$ 1-2/ lb

The local butcher shops:

Skinless, boneless chicken breast fillets: AU$14-20 / kg ~= US$ 5-8/ lb

Skinless, boneless chicken thigh fillets: AU$10-13 / kg ~= US$ 4-5/ lb

Chicken wings: AU$4-5 / kg ~= US$ 2-3/ lb

Chicken legs: AU$4-5 / kg ~= US$ 2-3/ lb

Chicken necks: AU$3 / kg ~= US$ 2/ lb

Chicken frames/bones: AU$3-5 / kg ~= US$ 1.5-2/ lb

[Fat Guy]

So infernooo, would you say in general that Australians prefer light meat to dark?

I wonder, in a chicken, what percentage of the saleable meat is breast, wing, leg and thigh? I assume it's not 50/50 light and dark meat. Then again maybe it is. We would have to know the percentages in order to derive a reliable price break point between light- and dark-meat-preferring nations.

[Peter the eater]

I wonder, in a chicken, what percentage of the saleable meat is breast, wing, leg and thigh? I assume it's not 50/50 light and dark meat. Then again maybe it is.

Well that sounds like an eGullet test kitchen challenge to me!

I happen to have a medium-sized whole chicken defrosting in the fridge as we speak, and I now feel compelled (and just a little excited) to do do the surgery with the scale by my side. I will post my findings as they become available.

Next to whole birds, a big tray of quarters/thighs/drumsticks/wings is the way to go around here. The skinless/boneless breasts are probably twice the price, but they go on sale for 50% at least once a month.

[feedmec00kies]

I wonder, in a chicken, what percentage of the saleable meat is breast, wing, leg and thigh?

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This brings to mind that chapter (or section?) in Fast Food Nation entitled "Mr McDonald's Breasts" or something. Apparently, the chickens that they use to make McDonald's all-white meat nuggets have been bred to have the largest breasts possible.

Well, at least in my experience, white meat is heralded as "healthy" (at least compared to other meats) here in the US. Maybe the price might be related to that fact? Because everywhere I turn, I feel like places try to make a big deal of the fact that they use breast meat, but don't say "all dark meat, all the time! Wooooooo!!!!!" Especially places trying to push chicken as a healthy option (like McDonalds and his huge breasts... )

Doesn't matter to me; I've never liked white meat, especially when not from a whole chicken.

Edited October 12, 2007 by feedmec00kies (log)

[mizducky]

I have long thought that chicken pricing makes no earthly sense whatsoever. Or rather that the pricing must reflect a bunch of non-obvious market forces. Like, what's with the commodity-style 10-pound bags of chicken leg/thigh quarters that regularly go on sale for $5/bag? (In other words, 50 cents a pound, but you have to buy the whole bag.) And these thigh quarters are usually huge. I figure they must be what happens to the remainder of all those chix that McDonald's breeds for their huge breasts.

I also don't understand why white meat remains so popular. I just have to conclude that a lot of people really don't like their meat to remind them that it came from an animal. No pronounced flavor, no bone or visible connective tissue, nuthin'. And that pretty well describes a boneless skinless chicken breast from a factory-farm bird. Probably about as lacking in animal-origin cues as a piece of intact meat can be. And also, a perfect blank canvas for fast-foodifying--perfect for flattening and stamping into ambiguous shapes before breading and frying and saucing and etc.

And is there still a lingering belief out there in the general eating public that white meat is somehow classier than dark? I'm so oblivious to that kind of thing.

Anyway ...

Datapoints from San Diego, culled from a random assortment of current grocery circulars:

bone-in legs/thighs/drums: from $.77/lb to $1.69/lb;

boneless/skinless breasts: from $1.79 to 3.49/lb

boneless thighs $1.77

whole chicken $1.09

[paulraphael]

I wonder, in a chicken, what percentage of the saleable meat is breast, wing, leg and thigh?

←

This brings to mind that chapter (or section?) in Fast Food Nation entitled "Mr McDonald's Breasts" or something. Apparently, the chickens that they use to make McDonald's all-white meat nuggets have been bred to have the largest breasts possible.

I think that's true with most modern breeds of chicken. Traditional chickens have tiny breast muscles It's a pretty amazing example of breeding, considering that birds use their breast muscles for flight, and we've created these Swartzenegger-esq uber-breasts in a bird that can't even fly!

I have to admit, as uncool as it might be in the foodie universe, I like breast meat. IF it's from a good tasting chicken and has been well prepared. I find that most people overcook it by 10 degrees or more, leading to its reputation as dry and boring. When it's well done, it has qualities like a beef tenderloin--not as much flavor as some cuts, but a nice one, and a succulent texture. All of which makes it an excellent foil for sauces and other accompaniments.

I agree it's interesting that it ended up with its current reputation (and pricing).

[Peter the eater]

This brings to mind that chapter (or section?) in Fast Food Nation entitled "Mr McDonald's Breasts" or something. Apparently, the chickens that they use to make McDonald's all-white meat nuggets have been bred to have the largest breasts possible. 

This brings to my mind Canadian author (and national treasure) Margaret Atwood and her dystopic vision of engineered poultry in her book "Oryx and Crake". I can't find the quote and I lent my copy but here's the idea in her own words from this site:

"ChickieNobs are chickens that only grow the most desirable chicken parts, for example drumsticks and breasts. They have no beak, eyes, or brain functions other than digestion, assimilation and growth."

I highly recommend the book, it may be her best, and it is full of black humor regarding GMO's among other things.

[CaliPoutine]

I just have to conclude that a lot of people really don't like their meat to remind them that it came from an animal. No pronounced flavor, no bone or visible connective tissue, nuthin'. And that pretty well describes a boneless skinless chicken breast from a factory-farm bird. Probably about as lacking in animal-origin cues as a piece of intact meat can be. And also, a perfect blank canvas for fast-foodifying--perfect for flattening and stamping into ambiguous shapes before breading and frying and saucing and etc.

For me, I know why I dont like dark meat. I dont like strong flavored foods. I hate salmon( except lox), blue cheeses and kalmata olives. I really think I'd have no problems( except for fish, I love fish) becoming a vegetarian. I hate thinking my food came from animals( I already don't eat red meat). I also hate dealing with raw chicken. I always wear disposable gloves because its just so slimy and gross and bacteria laden.

[jsmeeker]

I wonder, in a chicken, what percentage of the saleable meat is breast, wing, leg and thigh?

←

This brings to mind that chapter (or section?) in Fast Food Nation entitled "Mr McDonald's Breasts" or something. Apparently, the chickens that they use to make McDonald's all-white meat nuggets have been bred to have the largest breasts possible.

Well, at least in my experience, white meat is heralded as "healthy" (at least compared to other meats) here in the US. Maybe the price might be related to that fact? Because everywhere I turn, I feel like places try to make a big deal of the fact that they use breast meat, but don't say "all dark meat, all the time! Wooooooo!!!!!" Especially places trying to push chicken as a healthy option (like McDonalds and his huge breasts... )

Doesn't matter to me; I've never liked white meat, especially when not from a whole chicken.

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Typical supermarket turkeys have been bred the same way for years. Common culture in the USA is that the breast meat is "the best".

The "fat is evil" campaign has a great deal to do with this.

[paulraphael]

"ChickieNobs are chickens that only grow the most desirable chicken parts, for example drumsticks and breasts. They have no beak, eyes, or brain functions other than digestion, assimilation and growth."

I'm considering raising some boneless chickens, and wondering if it can be done hydroponically.

[viva]

This brings to mind that chapter (or section?) in Fast Food Nation entitled "Mr McDonald's Breasts" or something. Apparently, the chickens that they use to make McDonald's all-white meat nuggets have been bred to have the largest breasts possible. 

This brings to my mind Canadian author (and national treasure) Margaret Atwood and her dystopic vision of engineered poultry in her book "Oryx and Crake". I can't find the quote and I lent my copy but here's the idea in her own words from this site:

"ChickieNobs are chickens that only grow the most desirable chicken parts, for example drumsticks and breasts. They have no beak, eyes, or brain functions other than digestion, assimilation and growth."

I highly recommend the book, it may be her best, and it is full of black humor regarding GMO's among other things.

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Excellent book, and kind of freakishly accurate as it relates to the chickens.

[WHT]

Part od it is we have been conditioned to think white meat is better. The way it is sold may make it easier to handle and cook, not that it has to be that way.

[markk]

I also think that a lot of it is conditioning that “white meat is better”.

When I met my S.O. 37 years ago, he was the world’s pickiest eater – worse than a finicky child. He ate only boneless chicken breasts, steak, pork chops… and that’s about it – he ate no seafood whatsoever, and certainly no game, no offal, nothing!

Over the years he has learned to eat, and now his favorite foods are foie gras, sweetbreads, duck breast and confit, (but mostly when he can’t get squab for the thighs), and frog legs, and he eats no end of crabs and mussels and things that he once wouldn’t be in the same room with.

So recently we were at somebody’s house that only had cooked chicken parts from the grill, and they asked what part he wanted, and he said automatically “a breast”. So I stared at him and said, “the man whose favorite foods are duck thighs and pigeon thighs – you want of all things, a chicken breast ??!!” and he said, “oh yeah, make that a thigh and leg”. Of course he’s had no reason ever to taste those, as I practically never make chicken, but still it’s interesting what conditioning does to you.

[Peter the eater]

"ChickieNobs are chickens that only grow the most desirable chicken parts, for example drumsticks and breasts. They have no beak, eyes, or brain functions other than digestion, assimilation and growth."

I'm considering raising some boneless chickens, and wondering if it can be done hydroponically.

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Hydroponic chickens - brilliant!

[snowangel]

Datapoints from San Diego, culled from a random assortment of current grocery circulars:

bone-in legs/thighs/drums: from $.77/lb to $1.69/lb;

boneless/skinless breasts: from $1.79 to 3.49/lb

boneless thighs $1.77

whole chicken $1.09

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Prices here in the Twin Cities are roughly similar, except I can get whole chickens for $.69/lb. Pieces can run cheaper, if they are on sale, but then you have to buy the mongo family pack.

What blows me away is why someone would spend three times as much for a cut up chicken (which, BTW, is minus the back, neck, gizzard, heart and liver). I don't quite comprehend spending more for less. It takes just minutes to break down a chicken, if you have a sharp knife, and why would I pay someone to do that and keep the best parts of the bird?

BTW, no clue about white meat. I do buy whole chickens, and usually use the breasts for cutlets or stir fries, or chicken salad, but, this week, thighs at my local supermarket were on 3-day special for $.60/lb, if I was willing to buy packages of 5 pounds or more. Yes, my freezer is full.

[jsmeeker]

Datapoints from San Diego, culled from a random assortment of current grocery circulars:

bone-in legs/thighs/drums: from $.77/lb to $1.69/lb;

boneless/skinless breasts: from $1.79 to 3.49/lb

boneless thighs $1.77

whole chicken $1.09

←

Prices here in the Twin Cities are roughly similar, except I can get whole chickens for $.69/lb. Pieces can run cheaper, if they are on sale, but then you have to buy the mongo family pack.

What blows me away is why someone would spend three times as much for a cut up chicken (which, BTW, is minus the back, neck, gizzard, heart and liver). I don't quite comprehend spending more for less. It takes just minutes to break down a chicken, if you have a sharp knife, and why would I pay someone to do that and keep the best parts of the bird?

BTW, no clue about white meat. I do buy whole chickens, and usually use the breasts for cutlets or stir fries, or chicken salad, but, this week, thighs at my local supermarket were on 3-day special for $.60/lb, if I was willing to buy packages of 5 pounds or more. Yes, my freezer is full.

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At 69 cents a pound, how good is that chicken?

Anyway, why pay for just parts? Well, if want to make chicken wings (Buffalo wings), buying just wings is a lot easier. A chicken has but two wings. I would need to buy lots of chickens to get enough wings to feed just ONE person. Then, I would have a ton of chicken leftover. What am I gonna do with all of it?

[Jensen]

At 69 cents a pound, how good is  that chicken?

The cheapest I can get chicken is $1.99/lb...thighs or breasts on sale this week at my local Raley's. I imagine it is of the same quality as the 69 cent chicken...rubbery meat-like protein substance that was waved over a picture of a chicken.

For 2.50/lb., I can get natural "free range" chicken whole at Trader Joe's; for an extra 50 cents per pound, it can be organic.

For 3.50/lb., Corti Bros. will sell me organic, free range, air chilled chicken that tastes like <gasp> chicken and has nary a rubbery fiber in it.

At any rate, as noted above, there is no difference in price between light and dark meat at the lowest level of the chicken echelon. I think if one steps up to Foster Farms, dark meat is cheaper. At the top of the chicken tastiness scale, buying whole chickens seems to be the only option available to me.

[mizducky]

Datapoints from San Diego, culled from a random assortment of current grocery circulars:

bone-in legs/thighs/drums: from $.77/lb to $1.69/lb;

boneless/skinless breasts: from $1.79 to 3.49/lb

boneless thighs $1.77

whole chicken $1.09

←

Prices here in the Twin Cities are roughly similar, except I can get whole chickens for $.69/lb. Pieces can run cheaper, if they are on sale, but then you have to buy the mongo family pack.

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Once in a blue moon I can find whole chickens for $.69/pd. around here. $.89/pd. is somewhat more frequent. Often you only get the low price if you buy the family pack--which can get awkward after awhile if your household and freezer are small. I often patiently paw through a whole pile of family packs (of chicken or whatever), looking for the smallest packages that still carry the discount price.

[feedmec00kies]

Talking to my SO - picky eater (of meat) extraordinaire - he said, "you have to admit that white meat is the perfect texture for people who are picky about their food." This kind of points to what mizducky said - it probably reminds people the least that they're eating animal flesh or something.

I've known quite a few picky eaters, having cooked with enough people to know that there are people who hate tomatoes and cucumbers because they are "slimy." Then there's my boyfriend, who I've had countless conversations about the foods that bother him. Texture really seems to be the determining factor for many people.

BTW, thanks for the book suggestion Peter the eater! I'll have to check that out...

(edited to fix word order)

Edited October 13, 2007 by feedmec00kies (log)

[maggiethecat]

I like every part of the chicken, in order of preference legs, breast, thigh. Five pound bags of leg quarters go on sale once a month for 39 cents a pound, bone in breasts for 99 cents, thighs for 49 cents, boneless breasts for 1.29. I don't buy chicken unless it's on sale, but I think Mz. Ducky's San Diego pricing is close. Whole chickens can run from 69 cents a pound to 1.49 a pound.

[Tae.Lee]

"ChickieNobs are chickens that only grow the most desirable chicken parts, for example drumsticks and breasts. They have no beak, eyes, or brain functions other than digestion, assimilation and growth."

I'm considering raising some boneless chickens, and wondering if it can be done hydroponically.

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Hydroponic chickens - brilliant!

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this idea is in an old [1952] science fiction book by Frederick Pohl called 'The Space Merchants'.. vat grown chicken, from which you could slice off pieces from a room size mass..

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1002

this would probably make an interesting thread in it's own right..

mmm... soylent green...