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2008 Gambero Rosso


fortedei
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Fortedei, just idle curiosity, and because you have such strong opinions, what would be your top ten restaurants?

And please, anyone else who has a list....pipe up.

OK, I'm not just idle and curious. I have one precious day off per week and I'm thinking about making pilgrimages to some of these temples of cuisine.

Well, at the top of my list is Erba Luna :)

In all seriousness, go to Miramonte L'Alto in Concesio and then Vissani and tell me which has the better food, and which resturant you like best. My bet is that you'll like one and dislike the other. Go to Paolo e Barbara in San Remo and then to Madonnina in Senigallia and tell me which has the better food and which restaurant you like best. Tell me which chef, in those two restaurants, is the more skilled?

Go to La Pinetta in Marina di Bibbona and then go a little way along the coast to Gambero Rosso. Tell us which restaurant you think serves the better food, which restaurant has the better service and which restaurant you would rather eat in. Go to Amerigo in Savigno and then Da Caino and tell me which one has the more skilled preparations, the better food and the better service? Go to Cervere in Piemonte and then to Don Alfonso and do the same thing. I'm curious to hear what you think.

Best,

Fortedei

Well these are no brainers.

Miramonte l'Altro is not perfect but at least 3 notches above Vissani.

Paolo and Barbara sometimes overreaches but again no comparison. Paolo is also very good with game.

Nobody but GR and Espresso people eat great at Gambero Rosso. I should try La Pinetta. For seafood Lorenzo is heads and shoulders above GR.

Amerigo is one of the best in Italy---Da Caino is nowdays a ripoff.

Cervere??? You mean Da Renzo. I guess I was the first who had written in egullet that if deserved a star right before Michelin gave one. It is a very solid place, one of the 2 or 3 best in Piemonte. Don Alfonso is passe....excellent couple(Iaccarino) and great wine list. As for food, there are so many better restaurants than Don Alfonso in Camoania.

I have also seen Combal Zero and Duomo on the list. Combal Zero = 0!

My gastroville partner Mikael tried Duomo and came close to having a fistfight with the chef.

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My gastroville partner Mikael tried Duomo and came close to having a fistfight with the chef.

Couldn't find anything about this on your blog...or did I miss something?

Anyway, could you elaborate on that, please? (Via PM if you prefer)

I have been to Il Duomo only once - and I think I might know what you mean...

Best

kai

Edited by kai-m (log)
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My gastroville partner Mikael tried Duomo and came close to having a fistfight with the chef.

Couldn't find anything about this on your blog...or did I miss something?

Anyway, could you elaborate on that, please? (Via PM if you prefer)

I have been to Il Duomo only once - and I think I might know what you mean...

Best

kai

No. Mikael has never written.

Basically he found the quality of products questionable and cooking very poor. He was frank when the chef asked him how he liked his meal. But the chef responded to criticisms quite aggressively.

Personally I have been staying in Alba in the last few years and there are no shortage of honest restaurants. Da Renzo, Antine, All'Enoteca.......

Returning back to the main topic, I think the problem with Gambero Rosso guide is not an insulated case. The restaurateurs, allover the world, found a way to single out and pamper the critics. Very few people can resist VIP treatement, off-menu dishes, special favors, more careful preparation, etc. I don't think it is dishonesty, it is the weakness of human character.

The result is that there is a growing disparity between the taste of knowledgeable diners like Mikael or fortedei (who made me inspired to write this post) and the reviewers of major guidebooks like Espresso Guide, Gambero Rosso.

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  • 9 months later...

The 2009 is out. Again, the same players as last year with Tre Forchetti with a minor change or two. Very minor. Many of these places are already feeling the recession in Italy (lots of empty tables) and some won't be in business after another two years. However, the GR soldiers on, trying to promote mostly those who can bring "glory" to Italian cuisine... poor Adria imitations. Sad to see.

Not my kind of places with one or two exceptions. Much better food and care at The Tre Gamberi

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The 2009 is out. Again, the same players as last year with Tre Forchetti with a minor change or two. Very minor. Many of these places are already feeling the recession in Italy (lots of empty tables) and some won't be in business after another two years. However, the GR soldiers on, trying to promote mostly those who can bring "glory" to Italian cuisine... poor Adria imitations. Sad to see.

Not my kind of places with one or two exceptions. Much better food and care at The Tre Gamberi

This post and last year's somehow make me suspect you don't much like the GR :smile:

Anyway, as most will know, the 'communist' (not really, see discussion in the therad) leader Bonilli was ousted in a corporate coup this year, so this is the last edition that bears his mark. Next year's edition may show some change of direction, though I doubt it will be dramatic.

I won't know anyway because I do not read the GR guide.

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The 2009 is out. Again, the same players as last year with Tre Forchetti with a minor change or two. Very minor. Many of these places are already feeling the recession in Italy (lots of empty tables) and some won't be in business after another two years. However, the GR soldiers on, trying to promote mostly those who can bring "glory" to Italian cuisine... poor Adria imitations. Sad to see.

Not my kind of places with one or two exceptions. Much better food and care at The Tre Gamberi

This post and last year's somehow make me suspect you don't much like the GR :smile:

Anyway, as most will know, the 'communist' (not really, see discussion in the therad) leader Bonilli was ousted in a corporate coup this year, so this is the last edition that bears his mark. Next year's edition may show some change of direction, though I doubt it will be dramatic.

I won't know anyway because I do not read the GR guide.

I like the GR very much. We use it all the time and have since 1995. Before that, going back to the early 80s we used L'Espresso's Ristorante D'Italia (and still do but it has changed and not for the better). Before that we had only the Michelin.

You have to know how to read between the lines very carefully in GR and that means reading it year after year.

What we like best about GR are the Tre Gamberi and Due Gamberi. With those, although there are exceptions, you have places that have real integrity.

What we don't enjoy about GR is the need they have to push "top" restaurants simply because they are doing something different. The GR can't admit that many of these places are in over their heads as far as skillful preparation (certainly compared to the French... and I say that as Italophile who lives a good part of the year in Italy), and in over their heads in terms of conception of dishes (and in many cases in over their heads financially). As I said, some won't last much longer and many will change. Few Italians want to go to them and the tourists will be fewer than in the past. A number have taken to bringing in large tour groups to pay the rent.

However, the GR continues to promote them and cajoles them into doing something that many would prefer not to do; the stick for not doing it is a lower rating. I've written about that and you can check out past blogs.

The Gamberi are another story however and there is where some truly wonderful restaurants are, a few of which we would never have found without GR.

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If ever there was a place to scrap your guide books it must be Italy. I have stumbled into some pathetic restaurants masquerading as “haut cuisine” in France but that seems to hardly ever happen to me in Italy. Perhaps it occurs more in the large Italian cities but in the countryside you are almost always assured of carefully prepared, hand-made food especially if the place is posing as an elegant restaurant. Even pizza is handmade in wood-fired ovens 99% of the time. Even though I recommend restaurants in our region here on eGullet, they are not really miles and miles better than their competition. Standards are high across the board. I suppose, if you come to Italy once in your life and have a huge wad to blow and have to eat at only the most cutting-edge places, that’s fine, but where is the adventure in that?

Edited by SWISS_CHEF (log)
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