Looking for my Perfect Chef's/Gyuto Knife

[Mambwe]

I am trying to find the best Gyuto/Chef knife for the price range($250). I have been doing my reading and I'm not sure which knife to go with. Originally I was just going to get some Wusthof knives since I figured that would be fine. But, I decided that I want a really nice Gyuto and I will use Wusthof for paring/bread knives. It seems the general idea is to spend the most on the chef's knife and that is what I plan on doing. How does this plan sound? Should I go with other Bread/Paring knives? How do you store your knives?

Should I go Japanese/German? I was looking at a 10-inch knife. I was thinking about getting the Ryusen Blazen 210 mm Model. But, I then read a post from octiveman about the Hattori forums knives. How are these knives? It is about $100 more for the knife, but if it that much better I am fine with that.

The Hattori knife looks really nice. I do cook and I think any bigger than 10-inches would scare my Fiancee. I don't care if it is German/Japanese I just want a quality knife that will last a while. I also plan on buying the Korin DVD and getting a 1,000 grit and 4,000/8,000 grit stones to keep my knives sharp. I am probably only getting a few knives to start since I just got engaged and we are buying a house and money will be tight.

I guess my question is, If you had a $250 budget to spend on ONE Gyuto which one would it be?

[Octaveman]

I am trying to find the best Gyuto/Chef knife for the price range($250). I have been doing my reading and I'm not sure which knife to go with. Originally I was just going to get some Wusthof knives since I figured that would be fine. But, I decided that I want a really nice Gyuto and I will use Wusthof for paring/bread knives. It seems the general idea is to spend the most on the chef's knife and that is what I plan on doing. How does this plan sound? Should I go with other Bread/Paring knives? How do you store your knives?

Good plan. Bread knives are not as important as your chef. Just make sure you get one without points in your edges. Reverse scallops I think is what they call it. I have the MAC roast slicer/bread knife...SB105 I think is the model number.

Should I go Japanese/German? I was looking at a 10-inch knife. I was thinking about getting the Ryusen Blazen 210 mm Model. But, I then read a post from octiveman about the Hattori forums knives. How are these knives? It is about $100 more for the knife, but if it that much better I am fine with that.

The Blazen is a fine knife and would highly recommend. Are the FH knives worth the extra $100? That depends on the individual. On paper, probably not to many but these two are different. Comfort, balance and the hand-made nature of the Hattori FH line is very appealing. The Blazen's powdered steel blade and blade geometry is also very appealing. It's your call. You'd be happy with either one. BTW, I would get at least the 240mm size. The 210 is pretty small when you consider the gyuto can be used for 90% of your chopping duties. If you use a pinch grip when you hold your knives then you'd be losing about 30mm of usable edge right under your fingers too.

I think any bigger than 10-inches would scare my Fiancee.

It would scare a lot of people.

I don't care if it is German/Japanese I just want a quality knife that will last a while.

Then you DO care. Japanese will give you the lasting quality you desire.

I also plan on buying the Korin DVD and getting a 1,000 grit and 4,000/8,000 grit stones to keep my knives sharp. I am probably only getting a few knives to start since I just got engaged and we are buying a house and money will be tight.

Sounds good. Getting Shapton Pro or Shapton Glassstones?

I guess my question is, If you had a $250 budget to spend on ONE Gyuto which one would it be?

Can't go wrong with Blazen or the Hattori FH. 240mm would be a better option than 210mm. I suggest visiting http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/index.php for plenty of knife talk.

Cheers,

Bob

[Jan Primus]

I have to agree with Bob on all counts. My preference is definately the 240 blade.

There are many fine choices available (all from Japan), you'll probably love whatever you choose.

[Mambwe]

Bob - Thanks for the advice!! Sorry to bombard you will all of these questions. You seems like the resident knife expert. I have been looking on the suggested websites, Thanks for the tip!!

Is there going to be a performance difference between these two knives or is it just aesthetics and knowing that my knife is "Handmade" versus a production model? How do the blades compare as far as quality of material and durability? Are there any other knives that I should consider in my price range that are better than what I have listed?

Somewhere I got it in my head that 210mm was a 10-inch blade. I am looking to purchase a 10-inch knife so I will be looking for the 240mm model. It would seem that the 270mm ight be overkill.

As the blade gets longer to they increase the size of the handle to compensate for the increase in length so that the knife is in balance. It would seem that as the blade length increases the balance would change significantly.

Thanks for the help!!!

[Octaveman]

Bob - Thanks for the advice!! Sorry to bombard you will all of these questions. You seems like the resident knife expert. I have been looking on the suggested websites, Thanks for the tip!!

Not necessarily the expert but I have used many many many Japanese knives and just two Euro knives. There are a few Japanese knives I haven't used so I point out issues from what others who are in the know have said.

Is there going to be a performance difference between these two knives or is it just aesthetics and knowing that my knife is "Handmade" versus a production model? How do the blades compare as far as quality of material and durability? Are there any other knives that I should consider in my price range that are better than what I have listed?

Performance is a term that is not easily defined. Does it holds it's edge? For how long? What usage is the knife subjected to? Does it cut better? Is it because it's thinner or because it's harder? How long are you considering duration of sharpness? Are you cutting soft veggies or hard veggies? I could go on but you get the point that it's not that easy to answer this question.

I have not used a Blazen gyuto but from people who own them say it's geometry is very good (thin with a nice taper from spine to edge), it holds it's edge longer than most other knives doing the same kind of work, it's not too hard to keep it sharp with touch-ups but thorough sharpenings can be a little more work due to it's hardness. Fit and finish are close to the best you'll see in Japanese knives.

I have used the KF gyuto and it too is a very good knife. One of the main differences is materials used. Higher quality linen micarta handle material and is hand contoured. This material will not shrink or swell with humidity nor get slippery when wet. Nice sized too. Fit and finish IS the best you will see in japanese knives. The profile and geometry of the blade were designed by professional and home chefs. In other words actual users of the knives designed them, not some boardroom committee or a person trying to reinvent the mousetrap. The VG10 is special in some way in the Hattori does something to it to make it stronger I think. Not really sure but it just doesn't react like typical VG10 on the stones. Sharpens up very well and is not difficult to keep it that way. essentially these knives were designed and Hattori was chosen to make them THE best knives on the market.

Are there other knives you could consider? Sure, a few...

Suisin INOX Honyaki Wa-gyuto One helluva knife. Stainless, fantastic.

Hiromoto Tenmi Jyuraku AS series Fantastic knife, Blue Super core surrounded by stainless.

Misono UX10 Always been a great knife.

Hiroo Itou if you can wait until they become available and you've saved more money. 100% hand-made.

Togiharu G-1 Very nice knife for the price. got a really good review from a guy I know.

Somewhere I got it in my head that 210mm was a 10-inch blade. I am looking to purchase a 10-inch knife so I will be looking for the 240mm model. It would seem that the 270mm ight be overkill.

I used to buy 240's but made the leap to 270's. I like them better. It might be overkill for most stuff but I like having the extra room so I don't have to worry so much about making sure the food is under the blade. I even use them on garlic and shallots. Fun.

As the blade gets longer to they increase the size of the handle to compensate for the increase in length so that the knife is in balance. It would seem that as the blade length increases the balance would change significantly.

Depends on the brand but generally speaking the handles usually get slightly larger with blade length. The thing about Japanese knives is that they are made hard, thin and light so balance of even the 270's are only less than 1/2 in front of the bolster. The 240's are pretty all designed to balance right at the bolster. If you were to get into a Wa-gyuto (a gyuto with traditional Japanese handle) then balance would definately be toward the blade with even a 240 but it's still not bad.

thanks for the help!!!

You betcha

Bob

[Mambwe]

I think you have convinced me to go with the KF Gyuto. I am still up in the air about the 240mm or 270mm.

Aside from a bread knife which I will be going with, What other knives do you recommend buying? I am going to get a paring knife. What else should I get? What paring knife & size do you recommend?

I also want a knife to take meat off of the bone and also to cut apart a chicken going through bone and cartlidge. Is this the same knife? Boning knife? Clever?

I am pretty new to the knife thing and I'm hoping to get the right knives from the beginning. I only have my one Santuku and thats all.

Do you know of a knife block for the larger knives, or should I go with the Wusthof that I have read about on other threads?

Edited October 10, 2007 by Mambwe (log)

[Octaveman]

I think you have convinced me to go with the KF Gyuto. I am still up in the air about the 240mm or 270mm.

How did I do that? The others I listed are great knives as well. Specially the Suisin. The length is the biggest issue here. Weight is not. I say go to a store that has 10" knives and just look at it from a length standpoint disregarding it's weight. Pinch grip it and see what you think then try to determine if an extra inch would be a problem. If you think you want a 270mm but not sure about the length. It won't take long to get used to it. If I was to use a 240mm now it would seem small to me.

Aside from a bread knife which I will be going with, What other knives do you recommend buying? I am going to get a paring knife. What else should I get? What paring knife & size do you recommend?

Completely depends on what you would need a knife for?

I also want a knife to take meat off of the bone and also to cut apart a chicken going through bone and cartlidge. Is this the same knife? Boning knife? Clever?

A Honesuki is a fantastic boning knife. It goes through ribs, joints, etc. Just not through big bones like leg or thigh. This is a must since the gyuto is not made for this. This could double as a petty if you don't have much use for a petty. Most Honesuki's are about 150mm-160mm and that's pretty much the same as a general petty.

Do you know of a knife block for the larger knives, or should I go with the Wusthof that I have read about on other threads?

I have the large JK Adams block HERE (top of page). It is very well made and fits 270mm knives in the top slots. Honestly, there's another option that is very nice. THESE knife racks are VERY well made and VERY nice and VERY strong. I have one a love it. Doesn't scratch the blades as no metal is involved and the magnets are underneath the surface. They are reasonably priced and can be custom made to your length. Very nice.

[BigboyDan]

Best handmade chef's knives - period:

http://www.nenoxusa.com/

[Mambwe]

I was looking at the suisin, but I don't think that is the type of handle I want. It looks like a great knife; I am just not sure I like the handle for a Gyuto. I want a handle that conforms more to my hand like the other knives. I also don't want a light wood colored handle. This is probably not the best reason to not buy a knife but I like the darker handles for my chefs knife. I'm still undecided on which one I am going with.

My Fiancee mentioned to me that she wants to add a Yangiba as well. I'm also in the market for this type of knife. I haven't really looked yet, but I know what I'm looking for. I want a Carbon steel blade with a Japanese style blade (one sides blade). I know these knives require extra care but from what I've been reading this is the best material for slicing fish as it keep its sharpness longer than other blades. For this knife I wouldn't mind having the same handle as the Suisin.

As it looks now this will be in my knife block. I don't know the exact knives but I will in the near future.

240mm Gyuto

Bread Knife

Paring Knife

Carbon Steel Yangiba

Honesuki

Knife Block

Scissors

Shapton Shapening Stone

Glass honing rod(steel)

Boardsmith Cutting Board

Three weeks ago I was getting a Wusthof knife set. Now, I am reading three different forums and reading as much as I can staying up till 2 am every night.I didn't anticipate the choices of blade length, Europe/Japan, Blade Material, handle material, etc. Atleast I know when I get my knives they will perform better than Wusthof knives and they will last a while and are great quality.

Thanks again for all of your help!

BigBoyDan - those are nice knives! Some of them are out of my price range but very nice. Thanks!

[Octaveman]

A Yanagiba? Have I got the place for you to get it. This guy makes fantastic knives and are very very reasonable. I suggest 270mm for this knife and also recommend adding an Ebony Octagon handle. I've had one of his Yanagiba's before and it was an outstanding knife. You can get either white steel or blue steel but honestly white steel being the cheaper is not noticably different.

http://watanabeblade.com/english/pro/pro.htm

Everythin in your list looks great. The only thing I would mention is that you really won't need a steel. If your getting the Shapton Pro stones, they don't require soaking so just whip it out and run the knife over for a few swipes and your done. I have a hand American glass smooth steel and never use it because I just get out my 5k stone and hone it with that. Your choice of course but just showing you another option. Glad to see someone doing their research before just plunging into buying what everyone else is getting at the local department store or Williams-Sonoma.

Regarding the Honesuki, the Hattori FH Honesuki is supposed to be out in a few months if you can wait. Here's a pic of the prototype. It's double beveled so looks are deceiving. It just has a wide front bevel on it. Works as an advantage.

[Mambwe]

They no long offer a black octagon handle. They do have a buffalo horn hilt handle that they say is 99.9% black. I am viewing their website and this one, on my blackberry so it is possible that I have missed something. They look like great knives though.

This is from their website:

Attention

We use water buffalo horns for the hilt of our handles. This is a natural material and comes in several different random colors. Which means that it is not possible to choose the color for the horn. It is usually 99.99% black in color. Moreover, sometimes there are scars, dents and projections on the horn material. These occur naturally and are creations of nature. We have a policy to never waste any natural material since we have a high level of love, regard and respect for the nature around us. In fact the scars are unique and we consider them to add character and uniqueness to each individual knife rather then believe that they take away from the beauty of our work.As a matter of fact, wood is also a natural material and nobody can choose the grain and the color either. We would like to inform the customers that we cannot supply any specific colors even if we receive an order in advance. Customers should consider themselves lucky if they receive a color of their choice. We would therefore request you to abstain from making demands for any specific color.

I assume it is normal practice to use this material for a handle and have this type of warning.

Do other knife makers use this method with the iron and steel combo for the blade?

Edited October 10, 2007 by Mambwe (log)

[Octaveman]

Holy smokes, you're right!! This must be a recent thing with not making ebony handles anymore. The excerpt you posted was about the buffalo horn hilt/ferrule. He typed this up because people were requesting various colors of buffalo horn for their knives and he apparently couldn't get them. Some makers are willing to accomodate and some aren't. Purely up to the maker.

So, he doesn't make ebony handles anymore. No biggie. You can get octagon in the Ho wood for the extra $40 bucks. But honestly, I say get the knife without any extra's and then send it to the website below for a better ebony handle with buffalo horn ferrule. It's much much nicer than Ho wood, adds a little more weight to help balancing the knife and it's more elegant looking. An awesome look is a ebony handle and light colored buffalo horn ferrule pictured below. Dan at EE.com is a fantastic at putting on new handles. He redid the handle on one of my knives and for many other people I know.

http://www.epicureanedge.com

Yes, all Japanese knife makers make these knives with white or blue carbon steel as the core surrounded by wrought iron. There are some that may use different materials but this is pretty much the standard kasumi method of knife production. Watanabe's Pro line of knives are all Honkasumi meaning that the level of finish is much higher than standard Kasumi knives but the materials are the same.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Octaveman (log)

[Mambwe]

The knife comes with the Ho wood handle and for an extra $40 it comes with the buffalo horn hilt. What is a Hilt? Does this mean the entire handle is buffalo horn or just a ring where the handle meets the blade(like the picture you added)?

From the site:

Custom handles and sheaths:The octagonal handle with water buffalo horn hilt adds about $40.00

[Octaveman]

Good questions. The buffalo horn hilt is the black part of the handle (or light colored as in the pic). He doesn't make it clear but it's my understanding that the hilt/ferrule on his master grade knives already is buffalo horn but with a round handle. I could be wrong with this one though. Either way, I would save the $40 and apply it to a new handle at EE.com. That $40 would be better spent there plus with better handle materials and the option of customization that apparently Watanabe doesn't do anymore. The knife itself is still a great value in a hand-made yanagiba for $185. Spend some more on a great handle and you have one awesome knife.

Another great option to Watanabe is Mizuno Tanrenjo. This great online retailer allows for the poosiblility of even more customization with buffalo hilt color, handle material, blade finish, etc. Although not shown specifically, I know you can get an Ebony handle with light colored buffalo horn ferrule if you wished. Check it out. To get ebony handle with a 270mm honkasumi knife, it would cost $280. The same option with Watanabe and the new handle from EE.com would be $255 but you'd have to spend extra for shipping to and from EE.com so it would even out.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/MizunoCustomOrderShop.html

Or you could go with just the standard HonKasumi series with Ho wood but with various colors of buffalo horn for $210.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HonKasumiSeries.html

Mizuno is a very respectable manufacturer. Not quite as glamorous as getting one hand-made but they make very good knives. Plus dealing with this online shop is a pure joy. Customer service is off the charts and they only charge $7 shipping from Japan and you will get your knife in about 4 days.

[Vaughan]

Just looking at the picture of the FH Honesuki, is it really a double bevel? I've been trying to decide between waiting for the FH or buying the Blazen. The FH looks like it would be too thick for fish, isn't the honesuki supposed to be a Japanese fish knife also? That one looks like a deba, I guess there's something unusual about the angle.

A bit late for this comment but I got a 270 Hiromoto AS on your (Bob's) recommendation and it's fantastic, comfortable and holds an amazing edge. Thank you!

Edited October 11, 2007 by Vaughan (log)

[Octaveman]

Vaughn, it's a standard Honesuki in thickness and length. Yes, it is double bevel. It's damn near a 90/10 grind but it is a double bevel. It just has a very wide front bevel. It definately is NOT single bevel as that would mean the back side is concave and it is not concave. It's very near the same design as the Honesuki by Nenox. From what I understand the Honesuki is not a fish knife. A Deba is a fish knife as well as a Yanagiba. Glad you like the Hiromoto. It is a great knife.

[Octaveman]

Mambwe, have you made the plunge yet? What you end up getting?

[CommissionerLin]

I also want a knife to take meat off of the bone and also to cut apart a chicken going through bone and cartlidge. Is this the same knife? Boning knife? Clever?

Sounds like you need a deba. Strictly speaking its a knife for boning fish. The heftier models can split a 60lb Spanish Mackerel head down the middle. Also good for splitting lobsters. If you plan to do heavy work with fish and lobsters, I would definitely recommend a deba. I have an Aritsugu which I picked up from Osaka which I would have no hesitation in recommending.

[Octaveman]

Commissioner, yes, the Honesuki will take care of chickens quite well...taking meat off, going through joints and the smaller bones. It wouldn't work chopping in half the bigger, leg or thigh bones but ribs, breast and back is no problem. There is also the option for a larger Honesuki called the Garasuki. Longer and even more heavy duty than the Honsuki. Glestain has one and it's a beast.

While I personally use a traditional deba for chickens I chose mine very carfeully as not all debas would be ideal for boning and breaking down chickens mainly because of ease of chipping the edge. Any single beveled knife has a more fragile edge than it's double beveled counterpart. The deba can pretty much handle anything from the sea but land critters might pose problems.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Octaveman (log)

[Mambwe]

Mambwe, have you made the plunge yet?  What you end up getting?

←

I decided to go with a Blazen Gyuto 240mm and a Hirimoto AS Petty 150mm to start off. I will be getting more knives in the near future. I just got my confirmation email from JCK and they said my payment will take 4 days to clear. I had money in my Paypal account from selling a few yankees tickets so I paid through paypal. I guess if I used a credit card processing time would be faster. Now I have to wait longer for my knives.

[Octaveman]

Great choices. I've never paid with money on account with Paypal. That sucks that there's a delay. I guess it would be no different than the 3-4 day wiat for the money to show up in my bank account when I make the transfer. Oh well. Be sure to let us know what you think when you've had a chance to play with them.

Cheers,

Bob