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Liquor in pie crust


Darcie B

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I made an apple pie yesterday with a vodka crust. I used my regular pie crust recipe (the one on the inside cover of the old checkerboard cookbook :smile: ) and just substituted half the water with vodka. It came out great. The dough seemed a little stickier to work with, but rolled fine after a rest in the fridge.

I like the idea of using flavored liqueurs - will the sugar make a difference in texture?

-L

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I read the article a week or so ago and put it on my "to try" list. It sounds like, from what's been posted here, that it works well with the gliadin in wheat flour. I am wondering, though, if anyone has any thoughts about what this will do to gluten-free (GF) dough. Due to celiac disease, all my baking is with "alternative" flours. I make a very decent pie crust for GF, but am always looking for something to make it better. Unfortunately, most discussions involve gluten and trying to enhance or mitigate the effects. Since I don't have any gliadin in my doughs, I'm not trying to do that.

For pie crust, baking GF is in some ways easier. I don't have to worry about developing the gluten or using low gluten flours - all my flours are. But, contrary to what you'd think, overmixing or overrolling a GF crust does cause it to be tough. Not sure why... I can, however, use more water in my crusts without problems, so maybe the vodka doesn't help at all.

So, just wondering if anyone has any hypotheses around using this technique with GF flours. I will post my results when I get to it, but it will be at least a week or two, given the other things on my proverbial plate.

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I read the article a week or so ago and put it on my "to try" list.  It sounds like, from what's been posted here, that it works well with the gliadin in wheat flour.  I am wondering, though, if anyone has any thoughts about what this will do to gluten-free (GF) dough.  Due to celiac disease, all my baking is with "alternative" flours.  I make a very decent pie crust for GF, but am always looking for something to make it better.  Unfortunately, most discussions involve gluten and trying to enhance or mitigate the effects.  Since I don't have any gliadin in my doughs, I'm not trying to do that.

For pie crust, baking GF is in some ways easier.  I don't have to worry about developing the gluten or using low gluten flours - all my flours are.  But, contrary to what you'd think, overmixing or overrolling a GF crust does cause it to be tough.  Not sure why...  I can, however, use more water in my crusts without problems, so maybe the vodka doesn't help at all.

So, just wondering if anyone has any hypotheses around using this technique with GF flours.  I will post my results when I get to it, but it will be at least a week or two, given the other things on my proverbial plate.

I can't imagine it would help or hurt, though for some reason I lean towards hurt.

If your dough is getting tough, it may be the flour mixture you are using, especially if it cntains a gum (like xanthan)

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I can't imagine it would help or hurt, though for some reason I lean towards hurt.

If your dough is getting tough, it may be the flour mixture you are using, especially if it cntains a gum (like xanthan)

Thanks for your thoughts. I definitely use gum as it wouldn't stay together at all without it. Even with enough of a "sticky" flour like tapioca, Expandex (modified tapioca), sweet rice, or mung bean, they still need a bit.

I never have a "problem" with tough unless I rework it. But, the accepted wisdom is that GF crusts "can't" get tough. I find that, for me, they get tough with rework, just like a gluten crust. It never occured to me to think the gum would be involved in creating a tough crust, but what I know about gums would fit into a grasshopper's brain. Did you have anything in particular in mind, such as about a specific flour/starch?

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I make my gf pie crust without any gums - it does occasionally split or crack, but just pressing the edges of the split together will fix that. Overworking one with a gum will definately give you toughening issues.

I use an all pupose blend of 1 part potato flour, 1 part tapioca, 2 parts soy or garbanzo bean flor, and 3 parts white rice for pie shells. The white rice gives the bulk, the soy or garbanzo are providing the protein/structure and the tapioca and potato are binding.

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Thanks again. While I love what bean flours can provide in terms of protein, "lightening", and springiness/chew, I don't like the taste at all, so that may be a lot of the difference regarding why gum is more important in my current crust recipe. I tend to use flours that have little or no "stickiness" to them. In pie crust, I used to use a "healthier" blend providing some fiber, but recently have opted for more tenderness with a blend that also had little to keep it together. It stays together for the rolling - it's the cutting and eating that's the problem - it shatters.

That's one of the things I find so fascinating about GF baking - ten people can come up with ten results and all work.

Chickie, are you using an egg at all for protein and binding? I've developed recipes both that do and that don't. My current preference is for one that does.

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I am trying to get away from soy and using the garbanzo flour more - since my husband has realized he is allergic to soy and the airborne flour will send him into sneezing fits for hours! I haven't noticed the taste, but admittedly I don't do much more then taste a nibble now and then to make sure it tastes OK

I actually don't use any egg protein, because it makes it easier in my particular situation if my gf stuff is completely egg and dairy free as well - it cuts down the total # of products/recipes I have to produce if it fits both bills.

Have you ever experimented with agar or flax seed? that might give you the binding properties you want without the toughening aspect

And YES, gf (and egg and dairy free) baking is so amazing - I love the chemistry of it.

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Different tongues have completely different experiences with bean flours - soy, garbanzo, navy, fava, etc. In our house, all of us (and our extended family) notice any of them and complain. I have found a way to use some navy bean flour (max of 2 T per cup of flour). I soak the beans first, then dry roast them for about 8 hours. They turn slightly tan in color and the taste is completely different when I mill them. I still can't use lots of it, but I can use it.

I do use flax in my breads, but that's about it. I bought some agar agar a few weeks ago to experiment with, but haven't tried it. And, I also found some Methocel by Dow (methylcellulose), but haven't had much luck figuring out how to use it. I posted about it here, but no repsonses yet.

Oh, and to clarify, I don't have tough crust at all if I roll once. It's if you need to gather again and combine that I do. And, I've heard many people on GF forums saying they do this all the time without problem - and they are using xanthan. Not sure if they just don't see "tough" the way I do, or what. But, the crust is not at all tough on the first roll.

It makes sense to make things "free" of several allergens if providing to multiple people. Since I'm simply providing for the one celiac, I don't have to worry about it. I do, though, try to create recipes that are dairy-free, egg free, corn-free etc. so that if I ever need them for someone, I've got them. We have a dairy-free and gluten free family member, one who it corn-free, and two diabetics. It keeps me on my toes to make things that everyone can have.

I wish I had time, I'd experiment with the crust this weekend, but it looks like it'll be at least a week before I can make several crusts side by side and see what happens.

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  • 1 month later...

I just picked up this issue of CI (slow on the draw, I know). Any more experiences with using vodka in pastry crust? Has this technique become the new standard, or is it a flash in the pie-pan that no one will bother with a few years from now?

I was also intrigued by the food-processor flour/fat paste + extra flour method. I make pie pastry with warm butter and flour and have never had a problem, but the puree approach seems a bit much...

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Well I was just coming down with a doozey of a cold when I was making my Thanksgiving apple pie. And umm, at the last minute I remembered the vodka thing and of course, we were out of vodka. But I had some Hot Damn which is a cinnamon liqueur. Well, I'm mostly writing to say that the whole thing wasn't as good as my normal traditional apple pie. The cold, my sinuses were slammed, couldn't think, the changing up of the recipe, the whole thing didn't work out. Now it was still better than most apple pies but it was a far cry from my usual extremely awesome apple pie. :rolleyes:

So maybe I'll try again for Christmas...but honestly, y'know the old 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' if I make another one this year, I'm deleting the vodka. Well, maybe I'll just make a little bitty one with the vodka...we'll see.

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Edit to add: gfron, re: using Everclear - I wonder why they don't just use straight vodka instead of 1/2 vodka and 1/2 water, since there is quite a bit of water in the alcohol. Maybe it turns out too boozy? Certainly worth experimenting.

Fooey's Flickr Food Fotography

Brünnhilde, so help me, if you don't get out of the oven and empty the dishwasher, you won't be allowed anywhere near the table when we're flambeéing the Cherries Jubilee.

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I just picked up this issue of CI (slow on the draw, I know).  Any more experiences with using vodka in pastry crust?  Has this technique become the new standard, or is it a flash in the pie-pan that no one will bother with a few years from now?

I was also intrigued by the food-processor flour/fat paste + extra flour method.  I make pie pastry with warm butter and flour and have never had a problem, but the puree approach seems a bit much...

I made their pie dough for a Turkey Day pie.. Turned out well. I really amy liking this method.. May very well become my standard pie dough.

Jeff Meeker, aka "jsmeeker"

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Since I have to make 3 pies for a Christmas party tonight, I did a test run with a small batch, turning it into strips of dough baked on a cookie sheet, some plain, some with cinnamon and sugar.

This is, by far, the flakiest crust I've ever made. I'm sold.

I did not use the CI recipe. I used my own method, and just used about half alcohol.

I didn't have any vodka in the house, and although here in Kansas we have a brand-new shiny law that allows us to purchase liquor on Sundays now (will wonders never cease!), I decided to "make do" and use brandy. There was no discernible taste in the finished crust.

FYI my method, in a nutshell: For a one-crust pie, one fist-sized lump of Crisco no-trans-fat butter-flavored shortening, which had been refrigerated overnight. For a two-crust pie, two lumps. A good-sized pinch of salt. Sift Gold Medal Unbleached flour over, and work the shortening and flour together with a fork, rotating the bowl as you go. Add flour until biggest lumps of shortening are about the size of small peas. Splash in a glug or two of milk. Stir crust. Add more milk and stir again (gently, gently, more like a tossing motion) until it all hangs together. Turn out onto a lightly-floured board and knead gently about half a dozen times, until it's willing to form a coherent ball. Roll it out and make the pie.

The method was taught to me by my mother, who was taught by her mother, who was taught by her mother, etc. No idea how far back it goes, but the women in our family are proud of their pie crusts, and we always enjoy many compliments, despite the lack of upscale ingredients and methods. No, I don't refrigerate the bowl, or the dough after it's been made, unless I'm not going to roll it out right away.

Here's how it looks:

gallery_14560_4748_148259.jpg

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