Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Using Zero Trans Fat Results


bripastryguy
 Share

Recommended Posts

My business is located in Nassau County New York and it has been the latest to get on the bandwagon of banning the use of Trans Fats in restaurants and bakeries. First off, I think its insane that we are now allowing unelected and even elected officials to monitor and prohibit what we eat. These items unlike smoking have no ill effect on individuals around us. We are not forcing people to eat the stuff and they know its been used for decades! They (Dept of Health) is in turn sanctioning the use of saturated fats! They are known to cause heart disease and stroke. Holy SHIT!!!!! Its not even endorsed by the American Heart Association.

Enough bitching....

They have given restaurants until April to remove all trans fat products and bakeries have 1 year.

My question is: Has anyone had successful results with these unperfected zero trans fat substitutes?

I cant believe how this is going to effect my bottom line (not saying that I use or abuse a tremendous amount of this stuff, but it does have its uses, that all butter can be used in place of most of them, it doesnt have some of the necessary characteristics......)

If here are pastry pros and bakery owners out there that have switched let me know whats good and whats not. I know the Zero TF shortening cant take heat (creaming), it has to be kept in a cool enviroment.....I really dont want to change what my customers have grown to like.. I may just be gripping for no reason, but some of my items are better with the use of these TF items

I also have to look into the fact that I am under Department of Agriculture licensing and does the ban from the local health department hold for me?

Edited by bripastryguy (log)

"Chocolate has no calories....

Chocolate is food for the soul, The soul has no weight, therefore no calories" so said a customer, a lovely southern woman, after consuming chocolate indulgence

SWEET KARMA DESSERTS

www.sweetkarmadesserts.com

550 East Meadow Ave. East meadow, NY 11554

516-794-4478

Brian Fishman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can say that if anyone uses it in an icing, switching to milk/cream as the liquid is the only way to go.

I don't have any knowlege of actually baking with it. I still have half a 6 pound can of the good stuff left that will probably last me a coupla years as often as I use it.

I'll keep my ears open & update though.

viva le government huh :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah.....I think the real drag is that we somehow have to find our quality again with a somewhat substandard ingredient.

I make pies at my shop and this has affected my pie dough greatly. For some stupid reason, one of our wholesale clients wants us to use not only trans-fat free shortening, but it has to be ORGANIC too. Makes no sense, since nothing else in the pie is organic. :wacko:

So anyway I've been using this organic trans-fat free palmfruit shortening and I just loathe the stuff. I do make a mostly butter pie dough, but there is shortening in it (the palmfruit) so I can have a little extra flakiness in there.

I'm trying to get the boss to negotiate with our client that the organic shortening isn't really necessary in the pie unless everything else is organic....then we can truly say the pie is organic. Right now we can't. I'm advocating for a trans-fat free brand that is more readily available, like Crisco, which is now trans-fat free, and much cheaper. I'm curious to see if the Crisco will behave better than the palmfruit.

Cheers.....Annie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check this out:

The new Crisco states that's it's 'Trans Fat' free because it now contains fully hydrogenated oils rather than the partial variety. I understand that the 'no trans fat' statement is true since no trans fats remain when oils are fully hydrogenated. But, how long before we find out that fully hydrogenated fats are just as bad for us.

Interesting, huh? I didn't know that. One would think that a shortening that is now fully hydrogenated, would perform just as well as the partially hydrogenated kind.

We'll see I guess.

But yeah, the latest food scare du jour, mostly just amuses and inconveniences me. If the trans-fats don't kill us, something else will. Life and living it, is inherently bad for your health.

And worrying about what will eventually lead us to pushing up daisies is even worse still, since

stress is bad for your health too. :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking as someone who has never tasted shortening-based pastry that was as good as butter-based (or butter/leaf lard based) I'd think you could use this ban as a motivation to make things better than you did before, not just as good.

Is there really anyone who likes the flavorlessness and greasy mouthfeel of vegetable shortening (partially or fully hydrogenated)??

Notes from the underbelly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here in NYC we are required to eliminate artificial sources of trans fat, not natural. But some places around the nation are requiring zero trans fat in the finished product, which is causing headaches as butter naturally contains some trans fat. Yikes.

My assumption is that your local health department trumps the USDA, but this might not be true if one was producing for wholesale distribution as opposed to as a retail bakery.

[Appended: see the following New York Times article about the complications of butter and trans fat: Trans Fat Fight Claims Butter as a Victim

Edited by bibbotson (log)

Brian Ibbotson

Pastry Sous for Production and Menu Research & Development

Sous Chef for Food Safety and Quality Assurance

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there really anyone who likes the flavorlessness and greasy mouthfeel of vegetable shortening (partially or fully hydrogenated)??

Probably not, but there certainly are people who prefer the texture of baked goods (e.g. pie crusts) made with a combination of butter and shortening.

Edited by Patrick S (log)

"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm strictly a home baker, but I thought I'd throw in a recent experience. I use Crisco in my pie crusts. (That's the way my grandma taught me, and that's what our family is used to.) About a year ago, I tried the new trans-fat-free Crisco, and found it soft and difficult to work with. Then someone told me to refrigerate it first.

So a couple of weekends ago when I made 2 pies, I refrigerated the Crisco, and used it direct from the fridge. I had a pie crust that was much easier to work with than any I've ever made. It rolled out beautifully and was a dream to work with. I am extremely happy with it. Flavor was fine. Flakiness and tenderness were excellent.

Interesting comment about the fully-hydrogenated oils. I didn't know that, either. One of these days, I'm going to try to do some crusts with all butter, and some with part Crisco and part butter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, when I make pies at home, I'm ALL OVER the leaf lard.....I can't say enough good things about it.

But when it comes to the pies I make at work, I know my customers aren't ready to see "lard" on the label quite yet. Not to mention the fact that there are a lot of vegetarians and vegans out there, and lard is an animal based fat, unlike trans-fat free shortenings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there really anyone who likes the flavorlessness and greasy mouthfeel of vegetable shortening (partially or fully hydrogenated)??

Probably not, but there certainly are people who prefer the texture of baked goods (e.g. pie crusts) made with a combination of butter and shortening.

Yes of course there are people who like baked goods made with shortening. I think people confuse shitty baked goods with random ingredients. If they are shitty baked goods it doesn't matter if they were made with fricken gold they're still shitty. It ain't the shortening it's the person holding the spoon in one hand & the potholder in the other that's guilty.

Butter and oil don't work for everything. Butter isn't better in everything. Butter and shortening have different purposes in life.

I am perfectly amazed that an ingredient as robustly benign as shortening can be so shunned. Little leftfooted bastard orphan ingredient. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of people use shortening in their cookies and pastries.

Don't even think about proposing the need 'to enlighten them' otherwise.

I use shortening Shoot Me!

One would have to live a very sheltered life to never experience fabulous baked goods made with shortening.

I don't like the dry powdery mouthfeel and chalky lifeless taste of white flour either.

These are ingredients though, colors we splash on our palettes to paint into a product.

It's like an artist saying, I won't use the color blue. I'll stamp my foot and hold my breath till I turn... agh, well, sputter, agh, :unsure: well just never mind what color I'll turn.

Shortening is not a four letter word. :biggrin:

Profiling cake mix and shortening and corn syrup and stuff like that is ignorant. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, when I make pies at home, I'm ALL OVER the leaf lard.....I can't say enough good things about it.

But when it comes to the pies I make at work, I know my customers aren't ready to see "lard" on the label quite yet. Not to mention the fact that there are a lot of vegetarians and vegans out there, and lard is an animal based fat, unlike trans-fat free shortenings.

I'm a new convert to lard myself (though I had switched to all-butter pastry earlier), but to point out the obvious problem for professional baking, since lard is made from pig's fat, it also presents problems for Muslims, Kosher customers and even some Christians, since I know a woman from Ethiopia whose religion forbids the consumption of pork.

"Viciousness in the kitchen.

The potatoes hiss." --Sylvia Plath

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use Earth Balance in most of my baking (kosher, non-dairy, trans-fat free, non-hydrogenated) and I supply it to several large kitchens, including a major hotel that is now trans-fat free. I use the margarine, but see that they now have 'shortening'.

It may be cost-prohibitive, but it's an excellent product. Most of my customers have made the switch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes of course there are people who like baked goods made with shortening.  I think people confuse shitty baked goods with random ingredients.

yeah, yeah.

i'd really like to see a blind test with a good sample size of tasters.

in my own un-blind tests ... about a year of experimenting with tart shells ... the results were pretty clear. there will never again be any shortening in my kitchen.

you could well prove me wrong, but at the moment i'm convinced shortening is a cheap shortcut. it's truly easier, and significantly cheaper, to get good texture with it. but it's flavorless, and it's incapable of the luscious, melt-in-your mouth texture of butter. it's on my ever lengthening list of 'why f'ing bother' ingredients.

i don't bake professionally, but if i did, my response to people demanding vegan pastry would be the same as when I made ice cream professionally and customers asked for fat-free, sugar-free frogurt: Release the hounds!

Notes from the underbelly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The people who know how to use shortening use it for reasons other than it's butter like qualities. That's the point of using other ingredients, they're different.

Y'ain't never had an Oreo, man?

Flavorless is good when you want to use some other dominant flavor. There's a time & place for shortening. For example, molasses crinkles. Why waste the butter, you'll never taste it under all that gooey rich molasses. Shortening acts different and holds some cookies better thatn butter does. Well it used to before the government started diddling with it.

Patrick O'Connel, the pope of American cuisine, uses butter and shortening in his pie crust. Published the recipe in his book. What was he think ing?!

And besides what would we season our black skillets with? :biggrin:

So...

Who yah 'spose was that masked man with the spoon in one hand and the potholder in the other...hmmm? :rolleyes:

:raz:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes of course there are people who like baked goods made with shortening.  I think people confuse shitty baked goods with random ingredients.

yeah, yeah.

i'd really like to see a blind test with a good sample size of tasters.

in my own un-blind tests ... about a year of experimenting with tart shells ... the results were pretty clear. there will never again be any shortening in my kitchen.

you could well prove me wrong, but at the moment i'm convinced shortening is a cheap shortcut. it's truly easier, and significantly cheaper, to get good texture with it. but it's flavorless, and it's incapable of the luscious, melt-in-your mouth texture of butter. it's on my ever lengthening list of 'why f'ing bother' ingredients.

i don't bake professionally, but if i did, my response to people demanding vegan pastry would be the same as when I made ice cream professionally and customers asked for fat-free, sugar-free frogurt: Release the hounds!

Butter is definitely the way to go. :cool: I never did any professional baking on a large scale though, only in restaurants. But I definitely prefer butter to any kind of shortening in pastries.

Edited by Mikeb19 (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For example, I make a certain tea ring dough with shortening. There's so much butter in the filling I have to hold it in with flour. It makes a caramel like thing inside there. It's like to die for good. Butter in the dough would eff it up. It just wouldn't do the same. It would be that silly little millimeter different. I want the bread part clear so the filling can sing the robust solo. The bread part needs to be able to be sturdy enough to hold this all together too.

It's not greasy, it's not toxic waste, it's not unpleasant, it doesn't coat your mouth. I don't have to find paletteless people to foist it on. I bake it for gift giving at the holidays. Because it is so fucking good, honestly, I can't stop eating it. No one can. It's irrisitable.

My husband has a cycling buddy who weighs all his food. He reads food labels like yah read the paper or something. He has like zero fat in his body. Zero. He is still talking about the dang tea-ring I gave him & his family and how it should be registerd as a deadly substance (in a good way). He went to look for another piece and the family had eaten it and he's still lamenting it. It was a don't ask don't tell on the exact ingredients thing. :biggrin:

Now struedel? only butter. Baklava would be gross w/shortening. Most cookies, most baked things.

Obviously, shortening is not for most applications. But butter does not cut it for everything. Wonder why Brian is trying to figure out the difference in the trans fatless stuff. It's an ingredient. No of course not, shortening croissants would so suck. Butter is a beautiful thing. And shortening in the hands of those who know how to use it like jgm and BriPastry is equally beautiful.

There's no water in shortening.

It's an exclusive club apparently. Members only. But stop by this Christmas time and I'll have some tea-ring for yah's and dehr sschstruedel too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My question is: Has anyone had successful results with these unperfected zero trans fat substitutes?

Yes, definitely. Though I haven't tried the new Crisco, but I bet it would work well. And again, the margarine I link to above has proved to be an excellent product.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seasoning black skillets and manufacturing oreos are the best justifications for the stuff i've heard so far!

Umm, that's fine. Yeah, just put this on hold till you can stop by for some tea-ring. There's a reason I only make it once a year. Hey I'll toss in some schsstrooodel too. December, Memphis lemme know...

Carry a big spoon & a hefty oven mitt in the meantime. :laugh:

or

Wok softly and carry a big spoon. :raz:

Edited by K8memphis (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to use the organic palm oil based shortening when my oldest child couldn't tolerate soy oil. I found that it's generally "drier" than crisco and has a definite flavor to it where plain ol' shortening does not.

You can't really substitute 1:1 with it without having to add more water to what you're making.

Edited by MomOfLittleFoodies (log)

Cheryl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Umm, that's fine. Yeah, just put this on hold till you can stop by for some tea-ring. There's a reason I only make it once a year. Hey I'll toss in some schsstrooodel too. December, Memphis lemme know...

i would relish an opportunity to be proven wrong, if the evidence is truly delicious. next time i'm in memphis!

Notes from the underbelly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I still have a little bit of "ordinary" shortening left, but soon, this little ingredient will be outlawed, and I'll be switching to the zero trans fat version of shortening. I use about 1/3 shortening & 2/3 butter for my pie crusts, so I'm wanting to know what to expect during the "switch".

The other thing, is that even though I like the way shortening makes my crusts nice and flakey, I am sort of considering omitting it altogether, because I'm afraid of what "they" might be doing to the shortening to make it so it doesn't have trans fat. You know, I don't want in 20 years down the road to find out that this new shortening is causing other health problems. Anybody have any info on this?

Stephanie Crocker

Sugar Bakery + Cafe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still have a little bit of "ordinary" shortening left, but soon, this little ingredient will be outlawed, and I'll be switching to the zero trans fat version of shortening. I use about 1/3 shortening & 2/3 butter for my pie crusts, so I'm wanting to know what to expect during the "switch".

The other thing, is that even though I like the way shortening makes my crusts nice and flakey, I am sort of considering omitting it altogether, because I'm afraid of what "they" might be doing to the shortening to make it so it doesn't have trans fat. You know, I don't want in 20 years down the road to find out that this new shortening is causing other health problems. Anybody have any info on this?

Sorry, I don't have any info, but you might want to consider lard as a substitute for shortening. It work wonders in pie crusts and is actually better for you than butter or shortening.

Do choose a natural lard, though, not one that has been hydrogenated to extend its shelf life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other thing, is that even though I like the way shortening makes my crusts nice and flakey, I am sort of considering omitting it altogether, because I'm afraid of what "they" might be doing to the shortening to make it so it doesn't have trans fat. You know, I don't want in 20 years down the road to find out that this new shortening is causing other health problems. Anybody have any info on this?

This is what I found on the Spectrum website:

To make Spectrum Naturals Organic Shortening, we start with organic palm oil, extracted via manual pressing without the use of harmful chemicals. The oil is refined using a certified organic, chemical free process similar to Spectrum's other organic oils. The palm oil is then whipped using nitrogen, resulting in creamy consistency similar to conventional shortening.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...