Chicken Stock Breakthrough!

[pounce]

I have seen various bits and pieces on the internet, about braising or potroasting meat in containers sealed with a basic flour and water dough. The advantage is of course, that when introduced to heat, the dough hardens and forms an air-tight seal.

Would this not be better than messing around with turkey bags etc? just find a stock pot with a lid, make the dough and seal the top, then bung it in the oven for 24 hours?

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I think the most interesting advantage to using a bag other than enclosing the flavors is that you can transfer the bag to icewater for a quick chill and then pop a small hole in it and drain/strain out the stock easily.

[Jensen]

After Monday's roast chicken dinner, I figured the time was perfect to try out this new method of making stock.

I followed the double-bagging instructions to a tee, using Monday's chicken carcass and an uncooked chicken back I'd saved from a previous meal. Aromatics included a bit of onion, some celery tips, and bay. In addition to the boiling water recommended in the original post, I had saved whatever "giblet juice" (poaching liquid from the giblets) hadn't gone into the gravy.

At ten o'clock (12 hours after having put the experiment in the oven), the Spouse asked if the oven was supposed to still be on. "Yes, it stays on all night."

He looked concerned.

I got up this morning and the oven was off. My first thought was "that bloody so-and-so". I had falsely accused him however. Apparently there is at least one model of gas oven in the world that will shut itself off if left on for longer than a certain length of time. That would be the same model of oven sitting in my kitchen.

According to the Spouse, the oven shut itself off just before midnight.

"I thought maybe you had it on a timer."

So, my broth sat in the oven for 7 hours with no heat and no refrigeration.

It smelled incredible as I poured it down the sink.

[Shalmanese]

After Monday's roast chicken dinner, I figured the time was perfect to try out this new method of making stock.

I followed the double-bagging instructions to a tee, using Monday's chicken carcass and an uncooked chicken back I'd saved from a previous meal. Aromatics included a bit of onion, some celery tips, and bay. In addition to the boiling water recommended in the original post, I had saved whatever "giblet juice" (poaching liquid from the giblets) hadn't gone into the gravy.

At ten o'clock (12 hours after having put the experiment in the oven), the Spouse asked if the oven was supposed to still be on. "Yes, it stays on all night."

He looked concerned.

I got up this morning and the oven was off. My first thought was "that bloody so-and-so". I had falsely accused him however. Apparently there is at least one model of gas oven in the world that will shut itself off if left on for longer than a certain length of time. That would be the same model of oven sitting in my kitchen.

According to the Spouse, the oven shut itself off just before midnight.

"I thought maybe you had it on a timer."

So, my broth sat in the oven for 7 hours with no heat and no refrigeration.

It smelled incredible as I poured it down the sink.

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Spoilage is caused by bacteria reproducing in your stock. If it's been in the over for 12 hours, it would of been sterile, if it's sealed inside a watertight bag, there would have been no way for new bacteria to get in. Your stock was perfectly fine.

[nathanm]

Spoilage is caused by bacteria reproducing in your stock. If it's been in the over for 12 hours, it would of been sterile, if it's sealed inside a watertight bag, there would have been no way for new bacteria to get in. Your stock was perfectly fine.

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Well, almost... It is likely that the stock was OK, but not 100% certain. The safest thing is such a case is to pour it down the drain.

If the stock was pressure cooked, then allowed to sit sealed, then it would be fine - indeed it would be canned chicken stock. Canning does not require a can!

At the kind of low tempertaures that we are talking about 12 hours may, or may not, be enough to kill the certain heat resistant bacterial spores. The worst ones generally are Clostridium botulinum (botulism), Clostridium perfringens, and Bacilis cereus. Their spores can be very resistant to heat as discussed in a post above. Depending on the time and temperature they could be an issue.

[Jensen]

Spoilage is caused by bacteria reproducing in your stock. If it's been in the over for 12 hours, it would of been sterile, if it's sealed inside a watertight bag, there would have been no way for new bacteria to get in. Your stock was perfectly fine.

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Except that doubled oven bags closed with twist ties does not constitute "sealed".

At the kind of low tempertaures that we are talking about 12 hours may, or may not, be enough to kill the certain heat resistant bacterial spores.  The worst ones generally are Clostridium botulinum (botulism), Clostridium perfringens, and Bacilis cereus.  Their spores can be very resistant to heat as discussed in a post above.    Depending on the time and temperature they could be an issue.

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Unfortunately, anyone who has taken even one Microbiology course at any point in their life remembers those names. Twenty-five years later and I still can't dry dishes with a cloth towel because of that class...