London broil is good

[Fat Guy]

Recent sales at my local Pioneer supermarket and at Stew Leonard's in Yonkers have presented me with an embarrassment of London broil of late. Both $1.99 per pound, the Pioneer specimen Certified Angus and the Stew Leonard's something called Certified Premium (this is Stew's proprietary grade that tends to be quite good). In this particular instance the Pioneer Certified Angus was far superior. But I digress: I'm here to tell you that if you haven't made London broil lately you should. It's a lovely and economical cut of beef and when cooked rare and sliced thin it's as good as can be.

[snowangel]

My grocery is running a similar special. And, I love London Broil, and my kids like the leftovers on a good sourdough roll for lunch (brown bag idea!).

Meat prices are so puzzling. The London Broil is cheaper than hamburger.

Along the same lines, my grocery also has pork tenderloins (the whole ones, not marinated or injected with a concoction) for $1.88 a pound. Yet they are charging $4.29 for boneless pork chops. The tenderloins are great, and I usually cut them up into chops, stuff for stir fry, and smaller tenderloins (sorry to digress from London Broil).

Do you grill or broil the London Broil? Season it before cooking?

[Suzanne F]

FG, you are so right. My Food Emporium carries Coleman Natural beef, which I find excellent. I did one earlier this week, as described in the sauteing, frying, searing thread: seasoned it on one side, seared it well (4 minutes over high heat) in a little oil, seasoned the other side, flipped it, another 4 minutes. Then let it sit maybe 10 before slicing. We ate half that night, and last night I used the rest for a Thai-style salad.

Of course I would much prefer to use fresh meat, but when there's a special like this or the kind Snowangel mentions, it's really worth it to load up the freezer. There are always ways to compensate for the degradation.

[Fat Guy]

Ever since I got my new DCS range, which is no longer particularly new, I've broiled everything that can be broiled. The broiler is so powerful that it creates a gorgeous crust and cooks quickly with minimal mess and fuss. Since I'm a city boy, I don't have a grill other than a grill-pan so there wouldn't be any comparison for me.

In terms of seasoning, usually it's just salt and pepper for me, though I happen to have on hand some very high quality garlic and ginger in power form that I got from some guy who does it himself with no preservatives or anything. So last night I used those with salt and pepper and they contributed to a flavorful crust. Then again I overcooked the London broil on that occasion so the crust was the most flavorful part.

[C Squared]

London broil has always been one of my favorite meats to cook on the charcoal grill. Charred on the outside, rare in the middle, sliced very thin.

The next day, I like the leftover slices, cold, on buttered toast with a little salt & pepper

[Priscilla]

London broil is good, me too.

The Certified Angus type I'm able to get at my local supermarket is remarkable beefy in flavor for such a lean cut. Had two recently, didn't set out to get two but for some reason it was buy-one-get-one-free, and what am I supposed to do?

And also, me too, thinly sliced cold with butter and loads of crunchy salt and pepper, but untoasted bread. A lifesaver, any time of day.

[CooksQuest]

I'm here to tell you that if you haven't made London broil lately you should. It's a lovely and economical cut of beef and when cooked rare and sliced thin it's as good as can be.

FG,

Thanks. Do you slice it "with" or "against" the grain?

[Fat Guy]

Across the grain.

In general, I've been pleased with the Certified Angus products from the perspective of the price/quality ratio. You get a consistently good piece of meat at a fair price.

http://www.cabprogram.com/

(The site allows you to send virtual steak greeting cards, among other things)

[MartyL]

Hey Fat Guy,

Amen to what you say about London Broil. It's cheap, quick, tasty, and a versatile match with any red wine. We have it all the time.

I like to marinate mine first (after scoring the meat every 1.5 inches or so) in a mixture of sherry vinegar and crushed garlic (or lime juice and minced ginger), soy sauce, and a little honey. The marinade helps flavor the charred crust a bit.

Last week we had London Broil along with chinese eggplant from the green market. I simply halved the small thin eggplants lengthwise, and sauteed in EVOO with a little S&P. The halved eggplants had a bright green color that was quite dramatic a contrast to the rare slices of London Broil. We'll be doing that one again some time when we have company.

[Kim WB]

A London Broil question: my grocer has a "oyster cut" which I prefer over their other cut...why is this cut different from others?

[ngatti]

A London Broil question: my grocer has a "oyster cut" which I prefer over their other cut...why is this cut different from others?

I think oyster cut is a market term which comprises a piece of the top round that includes a piece of rather soft tender meat. Think of it as 'center cut top round'. True London Broil is a flank heart or a piece of Flank Steak, somewhat thinner, stringier and having the potential to cook much tougher if abused. A little jacquard action solves this problem and allows a marinade to penetrate. In any event Flank (london broil) should be sliced across the grain. The top round version can't be sliced this way due to the nature of the cut. and is generally sliced as one would slice the sirloin part of a Luger porterhouse.

Hope this helps

Nick

[Wilfrid]

Could you enlarge on your little Jacquard action, Nick? Thanks.

[Fat Guy]

Ubaldi's position is that London broil is a style rather than a specific cut. He accepts any thick piece of meat in the traditional shape as London broil so long as it is cooked quickly and sliced thin, though he prefers flank. I have of late seen "turkey London broil" and "London broil of New York strip" in meat cases. The Certified Angus London broil I buy at Pioneer is labeled "shoulder London broil," so it's probably not flank steak, but it's the best I've had outside of some super-expensive premium-butcher stuff.

[ngatti]

Ubaldi's position is that London broil is a style rather than a specific cut. He accepts any thick piece of meat in the traditional shape as London broil so long as it is cooked quickly and sliced thin, though he prefers flank. I have of late seen "turkey London broil" and "London broil of New York strip" in meat cases. The Certified Angus London broil I buy at Pioneer is labeled "shoulder London broil," so it's probably not flank steak, but it's the best I've had outside of some super-expensive premium-butcher stuff.

Yes FG I have also seen shoulder cuts labeled as such. As We've discussed previously it tends to be a dynamic. It's a market name so it can be whatever people want. Your shoulder is probably most flavorful due to the cut. I've most often seen it as flank, so that's what it is to me. Being such a catholic bastard, it'll prolly remain so . Though most 'supermarket' LB seems to be top round.

Wilfred -- A jacquard machine is a spring action thingie comprised of an aray of razor sharp needles. It's used to tenderize meat without degrading its appearence.

Nick

[Fat Guy]

Indeed that probably explains why the Stew Leonard's London broil was inferior: It was probably not the same piece of meat as the Pioneer one. Surprised I didn't think of that. I wish they would label meat more clearly so as to allow informed decisions about the best cooking method.

[Ron Johnson]

A jacquard machine is a spring action thingie comprised of an aray of razor sharp needles. 

This is described more fully by Franz Kafka in "In the Penal Colony".

[Peter B Wolf]

Steven, I have a problem with two things about this here “London Broil” business.

1. Not until down to 10 postings does someone mention the name of a cut of meat, Kim W.B.s “Oyster Cut”. I was and still am under the impression that ‘London Broil’ is the name of a -dish-meal-entrée or preparation method. I never went shopping and bought ‘London Broil’ but many different cuts of meat to make ‘London Broil’. One can use various cuts for this much-appreciated meal; the most common known to me is the ‘Flank Steak’ cut. I have used ‘Top Round’ and many years ago, a cut called ‘Honeymoon Cut’ (I mentioned this in an earlier thread – don’t know where). I could very well envision a 24 ounce Peter Luger New York Strip sliced thin and sold as ‘menu item’ “London Broil”.

2. And here is the next issue. What is so special about the CAB program you mention? There own website explains elaborately what it is. And from that I only get that it is nothing else but the ‘middle’ choice of USDA Choice beef. Although the marketing technique used in stores (and the higher prices) make customers believe that this meat is something like ‘Prime’ beef. I am not familiar with their certification procedure, although I know their trademark is registered. And they claim that USDA inspectors grade their beef. Now, since when can US inspectors grade beef, and not give it the designated US government labeling (grading), i.e. USDA Prime, USDA Choice, USDA Standard?

Are they allowed to make an exception to their grading system? Besides, in the trade, beef not graded by USDA inspectors and so designated is commonly known as “no-roll”. So, what are we dealing with? Are these marketing techniques? I for one have yet to find a piece of CAB program beef, and there is plenty around, even here in Maine in the Supermarkets, that is worth the price they are charging. Let me learn some more on this site ! As I so often already have. Thanks,

[Fat Guy]

1. Yes, it's a good thing the thread developed the way it did. When I made my first post I wasn't thinking clearly on the issue of what London broil means. Now I am. Thank you all. Basically, it's like Barron's food dictionary says: There are two definitions in common usage. One is flank steak. The other is a more generalized definition that includes any cut of a certain general shape cooked a certain way.

2. CAB is of course primarily about the Angus breed, and the standards that those in the program must adhere to in terms of breeding, feed, slaughter, etc. It's an easy and reliable way to remove yourself from the undifferentiated pool of beef that constitutes the Choice grade (which is the vast majority of graded beef and can come from excellent, conscientious producers or from the most awful factory farms). It's consistent across markets and I've always found the product to be good. As for value, I haven't performed careful price comparison, and since I buy most of my meat on sale I don't have the data. In terms of what the USDA does, there is a special program for branded beef where the USDA will work with not only its own grading standards but also whatever other standards you want your brand to have. It's always voluntary to have the USDA grade, and even if you get your beef graded you always have the option to remove the grading indication when you sell at retail. But where I buy my CAB it says both CAB and USDA Choice on the package.

[ngatti]

Steven, I have a problem with two things about this here “London Broil” business.

1. Not until down to 10 postings does someone mention the name of a cut of meat, Kim W.B.s  “Oyster Cut”. I was and still am under the impression that ‘London Broil’ is the name of a  -dish-meal-entrée or preparation method. I never went shopping and bought ‘London Broil’  but many different cuts of meat to make ‘London Broil’.  One can use various cuts for this much-appreciated meal; the most common known to me is the ‘Flank Steak’ cut. I have used ‘Top Round’ and many years ago, a cut called ‘Honeymoon Cut’ (I mentioned this in an earlier thread – don’t know where). I could very well envision a 24 ounce Peter Luger New York Strip sliced thin and sold as ‘menu item’ “London Broil”.

2. And here is the next issue. What is so special about the CAB program you mention? There own website explains elaborately what it is. And from that I only get that it is nothing else but the ‘middle’ choice of USDA Choice beef. Although the marketing technique used in stores (and the higher prices) make customers believe that this meat is something like ‘Prime’ beef. I am not familiar with their certification procedure, although I know their trademark is registered. And they claim that USDA inspectors grade their beef. Now, since when can US inspectors grade beef, and not give it the designated US government labeling (grading), i.e. USDA Prime, USDA Choice, USDA Standard?

Are they allowed to make an exception to their grading system? Besides, in the trade, beef not graded by USDA inspectors and so designated is commonly known as “no-roll”. So, what are we dealing with? Are these marketing techniques? I for one have yet to find a piece of CAB program beef, and there is plenty around, even here in Maine in the Supermarkets, that is worth the price they are charging.            Let me learn some more on this site !  As I so often already have. Thanks,

Hi Peter,

To attempt to address your points: I think we've implied that London Broil is merely a seasoned broiled piece steak, suitable for slicing. My experience with meat venders and my own butchering experience (certainly not the end all on the subject) have led me to the purists view that flank steak is the way to go here. Others have pointed out that the only commanality is what I've stated at the beginning of the post. I agree with you that anything could be used for this method of preparation (though Flank seems to be the most commonly suggested cut).

Re CAB beef. The marketing hyperbole can indeed be offputting. however I disagree with you on a couple of points. According to people in the business who I know and whose opinions I respect (D&B, Master Purveyors, Wotiz Meats), CAB is culled from the top 25% of the selected choice angus heifers and steers. This also according to their own website (certifiedangusbeef.com). There is much beef marketed as Angus (Aurora Angus is another brand), and with the dumbing down of the grading system over the past 25 years, it pays to get to know a good, knowledgable and trusted meat man/woman. As far as no-rolls (ungraded beef) are concerned. Well it's a cost issue and a lottery IMO. You can get some great no-roll beef. You can also get some truly gnarly shite, often packed in the same box as the good. There's a reason a packer chooses not to grade his beef, and it may turn up on your loading dock at some point (usually the day of a PPX party), so I won't use them anymore (I have at some of the hotels I've worked in), my bottom line is quality and member satisfaction...there's no percentage in it for me to use an ungraded piece of meat..

Thanks for listening

Nick

[Fat Guy]

Although I believe Niman Ranch beef is ungraded, and I'd trust it more than I'd trust most anything with a grade. Remember that standard USDA grading is a visual standard only. Every meat expert I've ever asked about this has said that the visual inspection only establishes probability, whereas the real guarantee of good beef comes from careful breeding, selection, raising, slaughter, and processing. I was just up with a Galloway rancher in Alberta and he was emphatic and compelling on this point. There are plenty of Choice carcasses out there that taste better than plenty of Prime ones (and in Canada it would be AA vs. AAA, same idea). So a broad-based certification program is for me a compelling thing. Now it may go too far, and now I hear they're certifying Red Angus as a special category, but I do like the idea. Of course the proof is in the pudding and I haven't done the necessary taste tests.

[ngatti]

Although I believe Niman Ranch beef is ungraded, and I'd trust it more than I'd trust most anything with a grade. Remember that standard USDA grading is a visual standard only. Every meat expert I've ever asked about this has said that the visual inspection only establishes probability, whereas the real guarantee of good beef comes from careful breeding, selection, raising, slaughter, and processing. I was just up with a Galloway rancher in Alberta and he was emphatic and compelling on this point. There are plenty of Choice carcasses out there that taste better than plenty of Prime ones (and in Canada it would be AA vs. AAA, same idea). So a broad-based certification program is for me a compelling thing. Now it may go too far, and now I hear they're certifying Red Angus as a special category, but I do like the idea. Of course the proof is in the pudding and I haven't done the necessary taste tests.

Well grades *are* guides. I've certainly cut much beef stamped choice that was far superior to beef stamped prime. I've cut into no-rolls that have been the same. I think it's about percentages. So the probability statement is pretty accurate. As in your probability of getting a great PH steak is going to be greater at Luger's than elsewhere. Can you still get a clunker there? Sure. But it's *probably* far less likely than somewhere else.

Niman ranch? I plead 'not qualified'. I've only eaten a burger made from their beef. Hardly the basis for a broad opinion. Even though it isn't USDA graded, it is by the using the established Niman Ranch marque, a defacto grade implying certain qualities about the meat.

Nick

[ngatti]

OK folks just had an in depth discussion with one of my meat people. The decision to ungrade meat (specialties such as Niman ranch excepted) is an economic one on the part of the rancher. It seems the graders are paid a pretty good buck and in order to justify the rancher paying to have his meat graded there must be a reasonable expectation that the meat is going to be graded choice or better. This way the rancher can sell his beef at a higher price and justify the cost of grading.

If the ranchers expectation is that the bulk of his lot of cattle is not going to grade out choice or better, then it's financially pointless to pay to have the meat graded. The meat is then classified an ungraded no-roll and boxed as such.

Having said that, it is indeed likely that a superb piece of meat may come out of that box. Just as likely that an utter piece of shite may come out of it also. But it is the ranchers opinion that there would not be a financial upside to having his meat graded which implies that the meat in question is going to average out to be less than choice.

Thanks for listening

Nick

[Fat Guy]

What I've heard is that you need less than an average of Choice, and that it's some fairly low percentage that needs to be Choice in order to make grading worthwhile (unless, like Niman, you're operating totally outside the normal distribution system). The information I have says that grading services cost 1/20 of a cent per pound, or about 38 cents per carcass. So that's what you have to recoup on average in order to make it worthwhile. I suppose you probably pay more per pound if you're a smaller operation, though.

[Priscilla]

This beef information is sososo interesting and valuable. Thank you all, especially Steven Shaw and Nick Italian-for-Cats. The sort of nuts-and-bolts stuff that really helps a person cook more the way she wants to!

[Fat Guy]

Yes, my role is to say the wrong thing and force Nick to get us the real info!

Here's the extracurricular reading on USDA beef grading:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mgc/beefrole.htm