Do (did) Jews eat Chow Fun?

[markk]

This thread was certainly inspired by the Pu Pu Platter thread, and the links to all the Polynesian-themed Chinese restaurants of yore got me to thinking...

As Jason Perlow documented so wonderfully in his King Yum thread many years ago, the traditional Chinese dinner for many of us was Egg Rolls, Spare Ribs, Fried Rice, and of course Shrimp in Lobster sauce

(The thread's here by the way.)

Well, that's certainly the meal my family ate every week of my life from as far back in childhood as I can remember, until I went away to college. But several years ago I was talking to a Jewish friend who also grew up in the 1950's, and he talked about having Chow Fun as a kid.

Chow Fun? I never had, or heard of that until I was in my 30's.

Are there any other Jewish people (or even not) who grew up on the Polynesian-American egg roll, spare rib, fried rice, and shrimp in lobster sauce meal who remember eating chow fun back then with their families?

[LoriZig]

I did, but A.) I grew up near San Francisco and we were constantly going to Chinatown and B.) my uncle had become a Chinese food chef in his free time because he and my dad loved Chinese food so much.

To this day, it is my favorite dish of all time!

Side note: for many years there was a hilariously-named restaurant in Brookline (the Jewish neighborhood in Boston) called "Shalom Hunan." All kosher Chinese food-- it was like a mecca for Chinese food-loving Jews! (how's that sentence for combining cultures!?!)

[mizducky]

Are there any other Jewish people (or even not) who grew up on the Polynesian-American egg roll, spare rib, fried rice, and shrimp in lobster sauce meal who remember eating chow fun back then with their families?

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I'm a fond follower of the New York Jewish fan of Chinese(/American) food trend, but I hadn't even thought about this chow fun business. Now that you mention it, though, the only time I remember eating chow fun growing up in the New York Metro area was the few times I'd travel in to Manhattan to meet my dad for lunch, and he would take me to Wo Hop (his office was right near Chinatown). I don't recall ever having chow fun at any of the suburban (Rockland and Bergen County) Chinese restaurants my family frequented when we dined all together. Though for all I know, that might be because my parents simply didn't order it at those places ... isn't memory a funny thing?

[laniloa]

Chow fun was part of our regular rotation. Add some egg foo yong to go with the shrimp and lobster sauce and that was our core menu. The chicken dishes rotated.

[weinoo]

Never had chow fun growing up in Forest Hills and on L.I., though all the rest was part of the rotation.

My first experience with chow fun was when I moved to the Bay Area in 1978 and had it at Sam Wo's in San Francisco - and it was delivered to the seating area via dumb waiter!

[porkfat]

Jews who eat shellfish and pork? I guess you mean non-practicing Jews, or maybe I'm ignorant of a special day when you can eat anything you want?

[markk]

Jews who eat shellfish and pork? I guess you mean non-practicing Jews, or maybe I'm ignorant of a special day when you can eat anything you want?

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I hadn't meant to start anything religious, or have that discussion here. I just meant "Jews" like me, and Jason, and the many, many (many) others who eat pork and shellfish, especially at Chinese restaurants. I'm sorry if I offended your religious beliefs - this was meant to be a light-hearted trip down culinary memory lane, and nothing more.

[porkfat]

Jews who eat shellfish and pork? I guess you mean non-practicing Jews, or maybe I'm ignorant of a special day when you can eat anything you want?

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I hadn't meant to start anything religious, or have that discussion here. I just meant "Jews" like me, and Jason, and the many, many (many) others who eat pork and shellfish, especially at Chinese restaurants. I'm sorry if I offended your religious beliefs - this was meant to be a light-hearted trip down culinary memory lane, and nothing more.

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No no no! Nothing of the sort! Sorry my tone didn't translate in my online post... I was simply asking an honest and I guess stupid question as I'm not too familiar with the Jewish faith and I guess I'll just shut up now and continue looking up this "“safe treyf" issue online. Continue with the food talk.

Edited August 7, 2007 by porkfat (log)

[Fat Guy]

We never had chow fun when I was growing up, at least not at the places we frequented on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. It was lo mein all the way. Chow fun was something you saw in Chinatown places, but not really uptown. I think it was at some point in the early 1990s when a broader range of noodle permutations started to appear in earnest uptown.

[markk]

We never had chow fun when I was growing up, at least not at the places we frequented on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. It was lo mein all the way.

Oy! We never had Lo Mein either. I should have called it "noodles". We didn't have noodles of any kind in our rotation!

[azlee]

Are there any other Jewish people (or even not) who grew up on the Polynesian-American egg roll, spare rib, fried rice, and shrimp in lobster sauce meal who remember eating chow fun back then with their families?

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I'm a fond follower of the New York Jewish fan of Chinese(/American) food trend, but I hadn't even thought about this chow fun business. Now that you mention it, though, the only time I remember eating chow fun growing up in the New York Metro area was the few times I'd travel in to Manhattan to meet my dad for lunch, and he would take me to Wo Hop (his office was right near Chinatown). I don't recall ever having chow fun at any of the suburban (Rockland and Bergen County) Chinese restaurants my family frequented when we dined all together. Though for all I know, that might be because my parents simply didn't order it at those places ... isn't memory a funny thing?

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I have very fond memories of Wo Hop as a High School student who commuted into Manhattan from Queens. We felt it was something special that we couldn't get at the Chinese restaurants near home, probably not until the very late 80's did Chow Fun make it to neighborhood restaurants on the outer boroughs. I asked at my neighborhood restaurant and the chef would sometimes make it special for me. Sometimes, when I came in to order he would make a special point to tell me that he had Chow Fun today! That was the start of alot of special orders that were not on the menu.

[Cleo]

Grew up on Long Island. Chinese food on Sundays, but never chow fun (maybe we had it when I was in high school?). We were definitely of the egg roll/spare ribs/pu pu platter/fried rice camp. We never had shrimp in lobster sauce. We had a lot of cashew chicken, beef with broccoli and sweet & sour whatever.

Oh, and we also had Chow Mein. Gloppy Chow Mein. I can honestly say that I haven't had Chow Mein in about 20 years!

[Fat Guy]

We never had chow fun when I was growing up, at least not at the places we frequented on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. It was lo mein all the way.

Oy! We never had Lo Mein either. I should have called it "noodles". We didn't have noodles of any kind in our rotation!

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Then the answer is yes, Jews ate noodles. Lo mein -- especially "ten ingredient lo mein" -- was a common dish in the rotation of all my Jewish acquaintances growing up. We ate a lot more lo mein than we did fried rice.

[maggiethecat]

Help me out, here. (Canadian-bred shiksa.) I've never heard of Chow Fun. Noodles and toppings?

[Fat Guy]

"Chow fun" refers to wide, flat, rice-flour noodles. If you order "chicken chow fun" that's made with said noodles plus chicken. The permutations track lo mein and fried rice (pork, beef, etc.). Sometimes it's written "Chow ho fun." There's also "Mee fun" sometimes written "Mai fun" -- those are angel-hair rice noodles.

[KatieLoeb]

Lo Mein:Spaghetti as Chow Fun:Papardelle.

Wide, fat and flat noodles with toppings. Beef and Broccoli with Satay sauce is my usual order here in Philly's Chinatown.

[Fat Guy]

Maggie this is how it's all presented on the takeout menu of one place near my house:

73. Lo Mein $7.75 - Choice of chicken, roast pork, beef, shrimp or vegetables. Mixed seafood or steak add $1.95

74. Chow Fun Noodles $7.95 - Choice of chicken, roast pork, beef, shrimp or vegetables. Mixed seafood or steak add $1.95

75. Chow Mei Fun $7.95 - Choice of chicken, roast pork, beef, shrimp or vegetables. Mixed seafood or steak add $1.95

As I remember it, back in the day, lo mein was pretty much your only noodle choice. The two popular starches were lo mein and fried rice. Then I think I went away to college and when I came back the chow fun and mee fun (which the place I cite above calls "chow mei fun") were all over the place. Fried rice had fallen out of favor (though it was still offered everywhere) and noodle varieties had proliferated.

[Fat Guy]

Lo Mein:Spaghetti as Chow Fun:Papardelle.

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Right except, I believe, lo mein noodles are made from wheat flour and chow fun noodles are made from rice flour.

[maggiethecat]

Maggie this is how it's all presented on the takeout menu of one place near my house:

73. Lo Mein $7.75 - Choice of chicken, roast pork, beef, shrimp or vegetables. Mixed seafood or steak add $1.95

74. Chow Fun Noodles $7.95 - Choice of chicken, roast pork, beef, shrimp or vegetables. Mixed seafood or steak add $1.95

75. Chow Mei Fun $7.95 - Choice of chicken, roast pork, beef, shrimp or vegetables. Mixed seafood or steak add $1.95

As I remember it, back in the day, lo mein was pretty much your only noodle choice. The two popular starches were lo mein and fried rice. Then I think I went away to college and when I came back the chow fun and mee fun (which the place I cite above calls "chow mei fun") were all over the place. Fried rice had fallen out of favor (though it was still offered everywhere) and noodle varieties had proliferated.

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Thanks. I think I've got it. But why the 20 cent premium on the Fun noodles? The rice flour? (Though 20 cents extra for Fun is a bargain.)

Edited to add: I've never seen it on a menu in the midwest. Not that I've been to Chinatown in a few years.

[LoriZig]

Jews who eat shellfish and pork? I guess you mean non-practicing Jews, or maybe I'm ignorant of a special day when you can eat anything you want?

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Porkfat, I get this question a lot from non-Jewish friends, i.e.: "how come you're eating that proscuitto? Aren't you Jewish? You do know that's HAM don't you?". There are many practicing Jews who do not keep Kosher, hence the group here sharing fond memories of pork and shellfish living in harmony.

Another odd noodle-thing: I grew up in Northern CA and was raised on "chow mein" noodles. When I moved out to the East Coast, I found out that "chow mein" were the crispy little fried noodles and that what I had grown up eating were lo mein noodles. Did anyone else have this experience.

Also- I haven't thought about Sammy Wo's in ages- good memories!

[KatieLoeb]

Lo Mein:Spaghetti as Chow Fun:Papardelle.

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Right except, I believe, lo mein noodles are made from wheat flour and chow fun noodles are made from rice flour.

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Right. Just talking shapes here. But I wasn't sure about the make up of lo mein so I didn't speak to it. I knew that chow fun were rice noodles. Thanks for answering my unspoken question.

[markk]

Jews who eat shellfish and pork? I guess you mean non-practicing Jews, or maybe I'm ignorant of a special day when you can eat anything you want?

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Another odd noodle-thing: I grew up in Northern CA and was raised on "chow mein" noodles. When I moved out to the East Coast, I found out that "chow mein" were the crispy little fried noodles and that what I had grown up eating were lo mein noodles. Did anyone else have this experience.

I grew up thinking (incorrectly) from what was served that chow mein was a gooey vegetable dish with crispy fried noodle things on top. Well, isn't that what comes in the two separate cans that make up the Chung King (or La Choy) chow mein?

I don't really understand it myself, but isn't chow mein more of what we think of as pan-fried noodles?

And a side note: when I was in London I used to take out from a fabulous down and dirty noodle place, and one day I mentioned that the pan fried noodles were always a little burned. An elderly Chinese man who appeared from the shadows (just like in the movies) said "tastes better that way". And since then, I've seen the term "Partially burned noodles" on menus in Chinatown. Has anybody else had experience with this as well?

[hsm]

More fun (Sorry!) down memory lane. We were, alas, chow funless growing up in a Jewish suburb of Detroit with a transplanted New York father. Sunday dinner meant won ton soup, egg rolls, spare ribs, fried shrimp, shrimp and lobster sauce, fried rice and chicken chow mein (for Mom).

Blessedly, we discovered Crispy Chow Fun in the 90s at the late Hi Ricky's and now it's a staple. Maggie, next time you're down in Chinatown, the folks at Phoenix will make them for you (we use them like rice). They have chow fun dishes on the menu, but we order them plain and crispy.

They're also sold in the market next door, so I can get my fix at home, as well (they freeze, wrapped tightly). I put some in a non-stick fry pan with a drop of oil and then back away from the noodles! They will crisp up nicely, eventually. I flip them over, back away from the noodles and let them crisp up on the other side (they're doubled over so the inside stays a little soft). Sometimes, I'll just put a little kecap manis over them and

[feedmec00kies]

Side note: for many years there was a hilariously-named restaurant in Brookline (the Jewish neighborhood in Boston) called "Shalom Hunan."  All kosher Chinese food-- it was like a mecca for Chinese food-loving Jews!  (how's that sentence for combining cultures!?!)

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When I was really little, we lived in Forest Hills (Queens, NY), and would frequently pass a kosher-Chinese restaurant on 108th street called "Cho-Sen" (now apparently "Cho-Sen Garden"). How's that for hilarious names for Kosher-Chinese restaurants?! (It's certainly up there with "He-Brew"... though beer isn't really something you think of when you think of the typical Jewish Christmas Eve...)

As for treif (non-kosher) foods.. my dad was never really iffy about shellfish, but for years when my sister and I were little we referred to pork as "meat" to soften the blow (we don't really eat any pork anymore except a few things that are all in Chinese restaurants, and I think it was because we were low on money and pork is cheap). He grew up in the former Soviet Union, but his family managed to try and hold on to whatever bits of Judaism they could, so he grew up avoiding treif foods. I don't think he grew up with shellfish around him to be weirded out by it.

As for chow fun; my dad is Jewish and I consider myself somewhat culturally Jewish, but my mom is Chinese and I also consider myself to be of Chinese descent... So, I feel like that's cheating, because I ate lots of Chinese food in all my years, and I often didn't know the names (my mom cooked it or did the ordering from the menu).

P.S. The edit is because I fixed my grammar.

Edited August 7, 2007 by feedmec00kies (log)

[SuzySushi]

I grew up in Brooklyn, eating Chinese take-out for lunch every Sunday (my mother's "day off" from cooking -- not that she was a good cook) and occasionally going into "the city" (i.e., Manhattan) to have dinner in Chinatown.

Our Chinese dinners were always the same: chicken chop suey (hold the onions), egg fu yong, roast pork lo mein, and egg rolls.

I grew up and moved to Manhattan in the heyday of Szechwan/Hunan restaurants (and we didn't spell it Sichuan as we do now) and discovered cold noodles with sesame paste.

Chow fun was totally off my radar screen until I met my husband, who grew up eating it in Los Angeles! Maybe it's a regional thing. . .