Eat like you're never gonna eat again

[Mottmott]

On an optimistic note, not everyone suffers during chemo. First. There are different drugs administered for different cancers. Second. They now have anti-nausea drugs that can be administered prior to the chemo that at least mitigate the effects.

Some time back I underwent chemo/radiation simultaneously and was fortunate enough to have little more than moderate fatigue some of the time. Hair loss was a minor, temporary inconvenience for me. The plus side, when it grew back it was thicker than before.

And I have known someone who had several different chemos as followup to a mastectomy. Only the last chemo treatment caused her to lose her hair. As far as I'm aware none of them interferred with her appetite.

So, while many do have bad side effects from chemo, do not assume that you will for not everyone does.

[rockandroller]

I'd like to echo the PP who said every day could be our last, so this is a good rule of thumb for everyone. I'll keep this in mind next time I am tired and considering going to one of the chains that surround me.

[WoodleyGrrl]

As a cancer survivor myself I can attest to the lack of appetite issue. I had radiation treatment in the mantel field (right below my ears to the top of my stomach) and by the end of my treatment I was unable to swallow most things. But god damn a frosty from Wendy's was the best thing that I had ever tasted back then.

One thing that I found was that there were may foods that I considered "favorites" that I would eat during treatment that only to find that now I cannot bear to eat them because the thought of it makes me feel sick. I guess because I never felt good after I ate them when having treatment.

Anyway, hope you feel better and best of luck. Cancer sucks.

[Jamie Lee]

On an optimistic note, not everyone suffers during chemo.

←

You're so right. I watched a best friend stuggle with leukemia 10 years ago, and she had it much tougher than I do. The knowledge about anti-nausea drugs they give you with ("piggyback") the chemo drugs has come a long way.

Sorry if I have come off all "doom and gloom" - I have my good days and my bad days, and IGW (If God's Willing) will have many days - good or bad - to follow!

One day, one bite, one hug - at a time!

J.

[hummingbirdkiss]

I really appreciate and am learning from your dialog here and wanted to thank you so much for posting...

I am a nurse and work in urgent/emergent care ..I always regular chemo patients... that come in for pain management, nausea and rehydration during chemotherapy. (we have a close affiliation with our Oncology team so there is no sitting in the lobby with sick people ..they just come in..or call ahead and as soon as we and we get them back to a room)

I have time with these folks that I would not give up for a million dollars...most of what I do is in such a hurry "treat em and street em" I actually get to sit and chat during these visits while I am starting IV's or giving meds... (they can call us ahead and we usually will be able to hold a room with a TV and recliner for a family member) ...

it seems all we talk about besides their current state of health ..is food!

we have long conversations about it and what they eat or plan to eat between treatments! How much they are missing certian foods .

I can offer warm blankets, fluids, pain and nausea medications ...for relief ....but I know that the more important times are the between treatments when they are feeling better

I agree not everyone struggles with chemo..but a lot of people do! and the ups and downs are expected ....So I am glad I can provide this care where I work ...

and again I am so glad you are out here talking about this ..because even non foodies going through chemo really miss eating things they love!

I am going to put some limes in the fridg at work ...

thank you so much and good luck to you..

Heidi

Edited July 27, 2007 by hummingbirdkiss (log)

[nonblonde007]

I am humbled by your courage and beauty of spirit. All of you that are facing this horrible situation. Thank you, for sharing the wisdom you are gaining with us and may we take it to heart.

Edited July 27, 2007 by nonblonde007 (log)

[Mottmott]

I know that some people suffer horribly during their treatment. But cancer is more than one disease and has many treatments accordingly. And people's individual response to the treatment (and the disease) is individual.

Clearly anyone being treated for cancer needs to know there may be a wide variety of side effects (and is rightly interested in learning everything possible about how to deal with them if and when they occur).

But I am concerned that the other side of it is some people being so scared by these accounts of chemo-hell that they put off or even decline to have what may be a life-saving treatment. I say this because my sister at every point of decision chose to fight her breast cancer in the least aggressive way out of fear of the side effects. She made these fears known to her physicians vigorously. (I was present at all her meetings with her doctors so can say this with certainty.) Her fear of the possible painful effects also led her to refuse radiation. Each succeeding treatment was somewhat more aggressive than the last as she gradually lost her battle after 5 years. Had she early on agreed to the most agressive treatment the outcome might have been different. Yes, who knows? But as she lived 5 good quality years with being less agressive, I can't but wonder if she might not have lived much longer if she'd met the disease by beginning with the more aggressive options she'd been given. When sent to one of our area's best oncologists, she presented herself as so obsessively afraid of side effects that he obliquely declined to take her on as a patient.

The sad irony is that none of the 4-5 different drug regimens over those years caused her to have notable side effects beyond hair loss. But the biggest irony? She met each actual physical challenge bravely and uncomplainingly as it happened to her. She met the treatments and even death itself more bravely than she was able to tolerate the idea of the pain that treatment might bring.

I bring this up out of concern that we (or the families) who have the cancer challenge concentrate more on the fear of the treatment than on the fight itself. There are so many variables in both the cancers and their treatments that we must not scare ourselves out of the good years of life we may gain.

It's helpful to share our ways of counteracting any side-effects of treatment. But for the sake of those who might now or in the future face chemo, let's keep in mind that the worst effects are not inevitable. We should not scare ourselves to death as I believe my sister may have done.

[Jamie Lee]

Wow, Mottmott,

I'm a bit out of words.

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also sorry if I inadvertantly caused anyone facing, or anyone who will face, a fear of chemotherapy or any other cancer treatment.

It is indeed, a case by case, one person at a time, decision. My choice is not a "YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary" decision. My choice to start this thread was simply to reminisce about meals lost, not to cause pain or fear.

J.

[Mottmott]

Wow, Mottmott,

I'm a bit out of words.

I'm sorry for your loss.  I'm also sorry if I inadvertantly caused anyone facing, or anyone who will face, a fear of chemotherapy or any other cancer treatment.

It is indeed, a case by case, one person at a time, decision.  My choice is not a "YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary" decision.  My choice to start this thread was simply to reminisce about meals lost, not to cause pain or fear.

J.

←

Jamie, I wasn't directing my remarks at you or anyone in particular. There is a general - and not unreasonable - fear of the treatment of chemo in our society in general. But as someone who has been through it personally and with members of my family, I felt it important to point out how complicated it is. To some extent, I suspect that we redirect our fear of cancer and death to the often arduous and disagreeable effects of the treatment. It's easier to talk about our fears of the treatment than our fears of its failure.

Personally I found it very helpful, when I received my diagnosis, to discuss it with no one other than my children until it was over and looked like I was on a path to at least remission. For me, this helped to keep me positive about my treatment. While I wanted to be business like in dealing with it medically, I wanted to dwell on it as little as possible mentally. I didn't want to talk about it with friends. I didn't want to join any groups. This was my wasy, but I know others would find comfort doing it differently. Everyone is different, this worked for me. I didn't want to fill my mind with the negative chemo/radiation experiences of others. And luckily I had minimal side effects. Others getting the same medicines with similar diagnosis had different experiences.

I simply hope to bring another perspective into the discussion to encourage those facing crucial decisions about their treatment to hope for the best as far as the treatment itself as well as the outcome. I hope no one's fear of treatment leads them to refuse what has a real chance of extending their life in a meaningful way. I understand that some people with advanced cancers may face extreme treatments with extremely poor prognosis may choose to refuse treatment, though even then many can go into extended remission if not cure. What I fear is that others with a better chance of success but who have very high anxiety about pain and discomfort - as in my sister's case - may assume the worst and chose a course less likely to be successful.

Apart from this point, I completely agree it's useful to pay attention to the kinds of food that people undergoing treatment might be able to enjoy. Many cancer centers have dietician on staff who are available to give nutritional information and some cooking classes and recipes. And those of us who do not have cancer can benefit from eating more healthful diets that may help us avoid it.

[annecros]

Mottmott,

I am sorry for your loss, and sorry to hear of your personal struggle. I would not wish that on anyone.

Disease process is very individualized, as is treatment. Coping mechanisms are very individualized as well.

Some want to talk, some want to be very quiet. There is nothing wrong with either method of coping with the real world situation.

I am a proponent of listening to the doctor and following the directions of those that dedicate their lives, many years, and deal with the situation day in and day out.

That being said, from my personal experience, they even second guess themselves. My primary, a very aggressive doctor and I love her for it, has discussed her mother's struggle with lung cancer with me. Her mother died of complications to her heart with treatment, and she has tearfully expressed to me her concerns that she might have had her mother with her for five or so years if she had not been treated so aggressively. I must add that I was the first onset of my particular disease process that she has ever seen in over 20 years of practice, and I owe her aggressive treatment of the disease process she saw to my very good prognosis at this time. I still didn't do the steroids and antideppressants after an initial trial - and won't no matter how many times I get medical advice to do so. That is my choice.

So much is out of our hands, and out of our control.

But what we choose to nourish ourselves with is not. It is one of the few areas where we can take action, improve the quality of our lives, and know that it is our choice. Disease, unfortunately, will happen in one manner or another to each of us in our own time. Those who choose to be open and feel the need to talk about personal experiences have every right to do so. Those who choose to not, also have the right to do so.

The nutritionist on staff loves Ensure almost invariably. Through not fault of their own, it is a nutrionally complete diet. You can survive off that stuff.

ETA: I have a very unusual, fortunately for me, relationship with my primary. I am her pet zebra, and as such have her on my speed dial! Your milage may vary.

[Mottmott]

Mottmott,

I am sorry for your loss, and sorry to hear of your personal struggle. I would not wish that on anyone.

Disease process is very individualized, as is treatment. Coping mechanisms are very individualized as well.

Some want to talk, some want to be very quiet. There is nothing wrong with either method of coping with the real world situation.

I am a proponent of listening to the doctor and following the directions of those that dedicate their lives, many years, and deal with the situation day in and day out.

That being said, from my personal experience, they even second guess themselves. My primary, a very aggressive doctor and I love her for it, has discussed her mother's struggle with lung cancer with me. Her mother died of complications to her heart with treatment, and she has tearfully expressed to me her concerns that she might have had her mother with her for five or so years if she had not been treated so aggressively. I must add that I was the first onset of my particular disease process that she has ever seen in over 20 years of practice, and I owe her aggressive treatment of the disease process she saw to my very good prognosis at this time. I still didn't do the steroids and antideppressants after an initial trial - and won't no matter how many times I get medical advice to do so. That is my choice.

So much is out of our hands, and out of our control.

But what we choose to nourish ourselves with is not. It is one of the few areas where we can take action, improve the quality of our lives, and know that it is our choice. Disease, unfortunately, will happen in one manner or another to each of us in our own time. Those who choose to be open and feel the need to talk about personal experiences have every right to do so. Those who choose to not, also have the right to do so.

The nutritionist on staff loves Ensure almost invariably. Through not fault of their own, it is a nutrionally complete diet. You can survive off that stuff.

ETA: I have a very unusual, fortunately for me, relationship with my primary. I am her pet zebra, and as such have her on my speed dial! Your milage may vary.

←

Anne,

I quite agree with you.

From like causes diverse ends obtain. Written over 300 years ago and yet still apt.

Cancer seems as capricious as it is dangerous. No sense to why one gets it or gets rid of it. I hope optimism plus a good doctor may be a cure, so I'd rather call it a challenge than a struggle, a minor exception, no?

I also hope that a good diet helps to forstall its return: Fresh fruits, vegetables, grains, fish, organic meats and dairy instead of processed factory food. And if not, at least it tastes good. I made a quick tomato sauce tonight from heirloom tomatoes, a splash of white wine, and some olive oil. Amazingly simple, amazingly good.

[annecros]

I also hope that a good diet helps to forstall its return: Fresh fruits, vegetables, grains, fish, organic meats and dairy instead of processed factory food. And if not, at least it tastes good. I made a quick tomato sauce tonight from heirloom tomatoes, a splash of white wine, and some olive oil. Amazingly simple, amazingly good.

←

Amazing, yes. Life is good!

My favorite meal (right now) is a tomato warm from the sun, in the yard. Eaten out of hand like an apple. Next week it may be something else altogether.

Call it what you will!

"If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there."

- George Harrison

[Malawry]

Let's say you have, say, two weeks to eat like you're never gonna eat again. At the end of that time, you're basically done for the rest of the calendar year. What do you choose?

People who have actually faced this: I'm especially interested in what you ate between diagnosis and treatment.

[Jamie Lee]

I'm embarrased to admit I was too scared and worried about details (My story is very different from yours)... that I didn't take the time to appreciate pre-treatment well-being and appetite. (Hence this thread!)

If I could do it over, and knowing a bit about your situation (devoted husband and toddler in your life), I'd do this:

1. If I didn't have one, I'd buy a vacuum sealer.

2. Agree with hubby to forget the food budget for now.

3. Different dinner every night - selected from all my favorites. To Hell with calories! To Hell with fat grams and carbs!

4. I'd revel in the gathering of ingredients, finding only the best (Remember #2) and plan for meals that either have warm comfort memories, personal remembrances, or things I just plain love. I'd focus on prep and cooking, too... creating long-lasting memories of the way I relish the way the actual kitchen time feels, how it nourishes me and delights me.

5. I'd never eat the leftovers from these dinners (except for breakfast ), but instead would vacuum pack them in single servings and freeze. They'll be a welcome way to put dinner on the table for the family when you're not feeling so good, and a welcome way to take advantage of the days between treatment when you can eat. Even if the appetite is suffering, and even if you can't eat the quantities you did before, they'll be a comfort.

6. I don't bake, but I think you do, so I'd figure how to use "guidelines" to incorporate that love.

7. I'd make a different soup each day (big batches) for lunch. And again vacuum pack the leftovers.

Specifics for me would be:

Dinners:

- Thai seafood curry with jasmine rice - I'd go for it - the best shrimp and lobster!

- Batches of Larb - probably pork

- My sinful but incredible Eggplant Parmesan (made-from-scratch "all-day-simmered") tomato sauce, breaded and fried slices of eggplant, tons of cheese - yum.

- A large pan of gourmet mac-n-cheese. I'd take a trip to the best cheese shop in town and go nuts.

- A standing rib roast, complete with Yorkshire Puddings and a kick ass jus. I wouldn't forget the spiciest horseradish/sourcream sauce...

- A killer roast chicken (or two) served with garlic smashed potatoes and a pan sauce. Skin, bone and dice leftovers for and endless variety of addon meals.

- The one last "going out to a restaurant" meal would be a blow-out at the best sushi place in town. (I've shared that my doc has "forbid" any raw protein until I'm done with treatment. Damn I miss sushi, ceviche, beef/tuna tartar, caesar salad made with raw yolks, etc.!)

Sides:

- Any fresh veggie (leftovers if any for b'fast)

- Great rice (not sure about freezing, leftovers don't last long in my house when I can eat between b'fast (cream, sugar and cinnamon), luncheon rice salads, fried rice, etc.)

Soups:

- Gazpacho

- Creamed carrot/ginger

- Pasta e Faglio or Minestrone

- 10-Bean with ham hock

- Viccychoise (sp) - but not sure how this would freeze.

Malawry - I know every experience with cancer and treatment is different... "Your Mileage May Vary" - there will be (probably) be some bad days, and (inevitably)some good days. Eating, cooking, your family, other simple pleasures (sunrises, the smells of flowers, the smiles of hubby and baby) will still be there through good and bad.

On a last note, I realize this post is concentrated around food, so please, no comments about how family time should trump food time! Malawry asked about food, eGullet is food-centric, and I'm keeping it to those realms.

Malawry - Best of luck - Chin up and hopefully mouth open!

[Toliver]

3.  Different dinner every night - selected from all my favorites.  To Hell with calories!  To Hell with fat grams and carbs! 

←

A friend of mine went through tonsil cancer and the ensuing radiation & chemotherapy last year. When he could eat (which wasn't often), calories became the most important thing for him. Full fat ice cream, whole milk, butter, etc.

It provides a completely different perspective of food and nourishment.

[Kouign Aman]

As a 2x observer, I'd say Jamie has it pegged.

Best of luck to you, Malawry.

[Raoul Duke]

So the oncologist won't give you script for THC pills. When my wife worked in Hospice the doc's were guarded about giving dying patients as much morphine as they needed or wanted. Something about becoming addicted. What shortsighted assholes. Don't ask the doc, or go on the streets for what you need to help your appetite or nausea, talk to the oncology nurse. Odds are she/he will be more understanding and, while preserving their license, will offer more help.

Never, never say quit!

[Ted Fairhead]

My heart goes out to all of you facing chemo/radiation. Yes the original diagnosis is the most frightening thing but my belief is that once you have found a good oncologist that you trust, you just simply follow his direction. I was so lucky in having a Gastroenterologist who was caring and yet agressive, who put together a fantastic team of specialists for me with the medical oncologist being the "Captain".

I did not listen to those so-called friends who had stories of horror, or of ghastly side effects, etc.

I had 6 weeks of pre-surgical chemo and radiation, followed by 16 weeks of post-op chemo. Appetite loss was very prevalent but I looked "simply mahvellous" as I slimmed down, and my 'bad back' didn't bother me at all with the loss of avoirdupois.

I loved good coffee before (several cups a day!) but totally lost my taste for it.

I too developed a craving for citrusy drinks. Fried foods were totally out as my mouth always felt greasy. Wheat Thins were my only snack, and the occasional salty peanuts. My oncologist gave me no limitations on types of food, except for cutting out red meat, but merely said eat what you feel like.

It has been 5 years since the diagnosis, and apart from frequent check-ups I am o.k. Fat again, I'm sorry to say, but I am really gonna do something about that! Soon!

[Jamie Lee]

Ted : Kudos and whammo!

Keep it up, keep the realization that LAC (Life After Cancer) really does exist!

To all the other readers, CA patients or no, please answer the original question from Malawry... If you only had two weeks to eat, what would you eat?

[Catriona]

Simple foods. I'd spend my time doing what I do on saturdays - hang out at my husband's apartment in Paris and spend every day putting together the evening meal.

Taste new things, and indulge in favourites: fresh, ever-so-slightly chilled prawns with home made mayo. Open Crabmeat sandwiches. Marron glace ice cream. cold cold champagne with petits fours. Smoked salmon from the Connemara Smokehouse. Supper at my mama's house.

One thing in particular: sharing meals with the people I love.

[Holly Moore]

Ted : Kudos and whammo!

Keep it up, keep the realization that LAC (Life After Cancer) really does exist!

To all the other readers, CA patients or no, please answer the original question from Malawry... If you only had two weeks to eat, what would you eat?

←

The original surgery to remove a kidney and later surgery to remove metastatic tumors from my intestine and pancreas both occurred in early August, eight years apart. The tragedy out of that were not the surgeries but with no appetite for a couple of months following the surgery, I missed out on the tomato, peach and corn seasons. So when I'm down to two weeks, I am going to make sure those are the last two weeks of the summer produce season.

There was another tradition of my surgeries - each required my spending about a week with a tube to my stomach, waiting for my intestines to start intestining. Not sure how it happened the first time but word got to Jack McDavid of Jack's Firehouse that the tube was going to come out and I could start eating. Knowing that hospital food for such an occasion would bring me down, Jack sent over a version of one of my favorite dishes - shrimp and grits - tiny diced shrimp and veggies, very creamy rice, and tons of flavor. Eight years later, though I had to cue him this time, shrimp and grits. So that too during those two weeks.

Other than that, a lobster roll from Red's, roast oysters from Bowan's Island, a couple of Rutt's Rippers and two slices of one of Carman's pies.

Edited August 3, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[lapin d'or]

These are the foods I would have on my must eat list:

Really good white crusty bread just plain with butter - I can eat so much of that and the smell of baked bread is one of my favourite.

The best crispy roast chicken

Rare roast sirloin of beef with yorkshire puddings and lots of good beef gravy.

A bacon sandwich

Chocolate macaroons just like the ones we ate in Brussels from Pierre Marcolini's

Vanilla ice-cream with fresh blackcurrant sauce- a childhood memory from a holiday in france

A pizza cooked in a wood fired oven as good as the one we had on our honeymoon in Italy - thin, crispy and juicy at the same. Has to be eaten outside in the sunshine so I have to order the weather to go with that too.

I love soups - so really good soups with bread for lunch.

My husband's pea and lemon risotto made with peas from the garden.

These are the ones that are high up on my food/memories list, maybe not enough here for a fortnight but a good start.

[Jamie Lee]

Lapin D'or:

For me, those thoughts rock. Thank you.

[annecros]

A MR Porterhouse, fried chicken, BLT, Hamburger (loaded), chili dog, french fries, MR Rib Roast, leftover roast beef sandwich on a hard roll with lots of jus, Baked Ham, Southern peas, butterbeans, fried cornbread, fried okra...

Oh, what the heck, everything in sight!

[Malawry]

Thanks for the tips, people. Please keep them coming.

Holly, my last two weeks coincide with the near-peak of the produce season, so tomatoes and corn figure strongly in my dietary plans between now and the onset of chemotherapy.

So far I know I'm making a lobster quesadilla, ancho chile-rubbed beef short ribs, and some crispy skillet cornbread with fresh sweet corn added to the batter. Shrimp and grits too. These are some of my comfort foods.