Phyllo dough

[Stevarino]

Thanks Greek Cook! I wouldn't say "never". It just may take that long to get it perfect!

Today, I rolled out the rest of the dough that I made yesterday, and made a baklava! I guess it came out pretty good. Although, the pastry isnt as tender as I expected it to be. I really rolled it out super thin today. Yesterday, I didn't have any corn starch to dust the dough, and used rice flour instead. After the pie came out of the oven and sat for an hour, the pastry was as I know phyllo to be. Today, it is more like a cracker on top? Is this a result of residual corn starch on the pastry?

Any ideas? Thanks

Edited June 17, 2007 by Stevarino (log)

[miladyinsanity]

Probably the cornstarch, Stevarino. If you made an all rice flour batter for fish and chips or something, the resulting fried batter would break your teeth. But subbing some of the wheat flour for rice flour in your waffle batter makes for really crisp waffles.

K8, didn't you mention where you got the recipe somewhere? I can't find it now, and I'd like to use something tried and tested.

[Stevarino]

I didn't use cornstarch in the dough itself, I only used it to dust the dough when I rolled it out, as called for in the book. Yesterday, I used rice flour for this step. The phyllo was flaky and tender; today, its like a cracker. (?)

Probably the cornstarch, Stevarino. If you made an all rice flour batter for fish and chips or something, the resulting fried batter would break your teeth. But subbing some of the wheat flour for rice flour in your waffle batter makes for really crisp waffles.

K8, didn't you mention where you got the recipe somewhere? I can't find it now, and I'd like to use something tried and tested.

←

[K8memphis]

Probably the cornstarch, Stevarino. If you made an all rice flour batter for fish and chips or something, the resulting fried batter would break your teeth. But subbing some of the wheat flour for rice flour in your waffle batter makes for really crisp waffles.

K8, didn't you mention where you got the recipe somewhere? I can't find it now, and I'd like to use something tried and tested.

←

Yes, umm, The Complete Book of Pastry Sweet and Savory by Bernard Clayton Jr.

2 cups all purpose flour

1/2 teaspoon salt

1 tablespoon butter or margarine room temp

1 egg room temp

3/4 cup of water, approximately ( I use one half cup)

This is my paraphrase of his instructions.

Combine everything but the flour and salt and mix well. Add the mixture to the flour & salt.

You want a soft elastic dough, not sticky at all.

Knead it for 12 minutes. This is a dough you want to literally slam onto the work surface using considerable force. Whack it good while you knead it. I just use my Kitchen aid and then slam it around the board. But If you get your KA going good it will slam bam it around too. But you want it nice and smooth.

Now then you want the dough to rest for 20 minutes with a hot dry bowl or pot over it.

Commence rolling and then let the stretching begin

Magic. Pure magic.

[UnConundrum]

Yes, umm, The Complete Book of Pastry Sweet and Savory by Bernard Clayton Jr.

2 cups all purpose flour

1/2 teaspoon salt

1 tablespoon butter or margarine room temp

1 egg room temp

3/4 cup of water, approximately ( I use one half cup)

Great Thread !!!!

Looks like Stevarino is using white vinegar. Is that a variation of the recipe? Are there a lot of different recipes? Seems like it would be rather basic like pasta.

[Live It Up]

Yes, umm, The Complete Book of Pastry Sweet and Savory by Bernard Clayton Jr.

2 cups all purpose flour

1/2 teaspoon salt

1 tablespoon butter or margarine room temp

1 egg room temp

3/4 cup of water, approximately ( I use one half cup)

Great Thread !!!!

Looks like Stevarino is using white vinegar. Is that a variation of the recipe? Are there a lot of different recipes? Seems like it would be rather basic like pasta.

←

This strudel dough recipe looks pretty different from phyllo, actually. I used vinegar in my phyllo dough as well, though the recipe I was using called for lemon juice. I have a lot of different recipes for phyllo, and they all call for some sort of acid, usually vinegar. The recipe I used also called for vodka.

[K8memphis]

Strudel dough is Bavarian/Hungarian and phyllo leaf is Greek. It's same/same.

It can be made either way with or without acid.

[UnConundrum]

Wow, that's a pretty big variation. What is the advantage of the acid? I do a good bit of bread baking, but nothing with acid. Actually probably wouldn't be good for the yeast. Does the acid do something for the gluten development? Can you taste the difference? Vodka ????

[K8memphis]

It's as big a variance as the variances in 'chocolate cake' for example. Some chocolate cake formulas call for acids some have no flour, some have one egg some have four, some have sour cream some have coffee some have this some have that, it's all chocolate cake in the end. I don't see acid or not in the dough as a big variance. It's simply a difference from one region to another.

[miladyinsanity]

Probably the cornstarch, Stevarino. If you made an all rice flour batter for fish and chips or something, the resulting fried batter would break your teeth. But subbing some of the wheat flour for rice flour in your waffle batter makes for really crisp waffles.

K8, didn't you mention where you got the recipe somewhere? I can't find it now, and I'd like to use something tried and tested.

←

Yes, umm, The Complete Book of Pastry Sweet and Savory by Bernard Clayton Jr.

2 cups all purpose flour

1/2 teaspoon salt

1 tablespoon butter or margarine room temp

1 egg room temp

3/4 cup of water, approximately ( I use one half cup)

This is my paraphrase of his instructions.

Combine everything but the flour and salt and mix well. Add the mixture to the flour & salt.

You want a soft elastic dough, not sticky at all.

Knead it for 12 minutes. This is a dough you want to literally slam onto the work surface using considerable force. Whack it good while you knead it. I just use my Kitchen aid and then slam it around the board. But If you get your KA going good it will slam bam it around too. But you want it nice and smooth.

Now then you want the dough to rest for 20 minutes with a hot dry bowl or pot over it.

Commence rolling and then let the stretching begin

Magic. Pure magic.

←

Thanks K8!

[srhcb]

Strudel dough is Bavarian/Hungarian and phyllo leaf is Greek. It's same/same.

It can be made either way with or without acid.

←

My Grandmother was a Serbian who came here in the early part of the 1900's from what was then part of Austria. Her strudel dough was indistinguishable from a Greek phyllo. I asked my Mother about it when I visited her yesterday.

Her memory of helping her Mother, and making strudel herself and with my Sister, is getting a bit vague. But, as luck would have it, my Cousin Steph, recently repatriated from The Netherlands, stopped in while I was there. She could recall both seeing our Grandmother make strudel and helping her Step-Mother with the process.

Some "tricks" she remembered were having the room as warm as possible during the process, keeping the back of the hands well floured to stretch the dough with your knuckles, and stretching it just thin enough while leaving a heavier edge along the sides that would hang over the edge of the sheet-covered table to hold the dough in tension while it was buttered and filled before rolling up into strudel. (I knew there had to be some reason this task was done on such a seemingly vast scale!)

Stef also recalled how the rolled strudel, (either the standard apple or delicious cottage cheese/lemon), was then laid in an "S" shape into the baking pans by Grandma's gently lifting it from the table as a helper rotated the pan at just the right speed beneath it.

Personally, I can recall how each end of the "S" contained a bit of the thicker dough "overhang" tucked underneath which, after the strudel was baked, was the perfect combination of crispy, chewy and carmelized!

Stef will search through her Step-Mom's cookbooks and notes for any recipes, and we've tentatively scheduled a strudel-from-scratch making exercise for August when my Sister and another cousin from California can be present.

SB (volunteered to serve as Documentarian and, of course, on the Tasting Panel )

[K8memphis]

Strudel dough is Bavarian/Hungarian and phyllo leaf is Greek. It's same/same.

It can be made either way with or without acid.

←

My Grandmother was a Serbian who came here in the early part of the 1900's from what was then part of Austria. Her strudel dough was indistinguishable from a Greek phyllo. I asked my Mother about it when I visited her yesterday.

Her memory of helping her Mother, and making strudel herself and with my Sister, is getting a bit vague. But, as luck would have it, my Cousin Steph, recently repatriated from The Netherlands, stopped in while I was there. She could recall both seeing our Grandmother make strudel and helping her Step-Mother with the process.

Some "tricks" she remembered were having the room as warm as possible during the process, keeping the back of the hands well floured to stretch the dough with your knuckles, and stretching it just thin enough while leaving a heavier edge along the sides that would hang over the edge of the sheet-covered table to hold the dough in tension while it was buttered and filled before rolling up into strudel. (I knew there had to be some reason this task was done on such a seemingly vast scale!)

Stef also recalled how the rolled strudel, (either the standard apple or delicious cottage cheese/lemon), was then laid in an "S" shape into the baking pans by Grandma's gently lifting it from the table as a helper rotated the pan at just the right speed beneath it.

Personally, I can recall how each end of the "S" contained a bit of the thicker dough "overhang" tucked underneath which, after the strudel was baked, was the perfect combination of crispy, chewy and carmelized!

Stef will search through her Step-Mom's cookbooks and notes for any recipes, and we've tentatively scheduled a strudel-from-scratch making exercise for August when my Sister and another cousin from California can be present.

SB (volunteered to serve as Documentarian and, of course, on the Tasting Panel )

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Oh hooray for overhang I knew there had to be something great to do with that! Always tugged at my heart to just discard, just toss with a flip of the wrist. sniff. But even when I get the proportion of dough to tabletop correct so I get the overhang, I cut it off before buttering. (duh, Kate!) Makes much more sense to keep it as an anchor! <insert clapping hands smilie face>

Let me know if there are any no shows on the tasting panel.

I'm totally doing the big table this year.

And one little request if possible, to weigh the dough and measure the table top, please. If it's convenient.

[srhcb]

Oh hooray for overhang I knew there had to be something great to do with that!

That was my favorite part of the conversation. My Cousin Steph said it just like that was the most obvious thing in the World !

Thinking about again now, there would obviously be more overhang than you'd want to tuck into the strudel pan? Then I remembered how whenever Grandma made strudel she also had some stickey, yellow thumb-sized cookies.

I've never seen a recipe for them, but they were crisp on the outside and almost still doughy in the interior. They were baked in a pan with honey, and were very sweet and buttery at the same time. You don't suppose .....

And one little request if possible, to weigh the dough and measure the table top, please. If it's convenient.

←

Better yet!

My Cousin Steph is an inveterate picture-taker. (her daughters call her the Mamarazzi)

I'll have her capture the entire event and post it here!

[ana34d]

Hello,
I need help, someone knows how to make phyllo dough make.
I've tried several recipes from the net and I can not succeed.
Thank you.
Ana

[SylviaLovegren]

It's hard!  Buy it!

 

My Greek relatives all buy their phyllo, except one aunt who will occasionally make it for a very rustic tiropita (cheese "pie").