Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Recommended Posts

Hello hummingbirdkiss, welcome to the DIY club :)

thanks so much Danielkumiadi it is a disease isn't it ..if it can be made I have to try 

I make fish sauce and my husband almost moved out but he now understands why! it is so good! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hai Takadi, can you tell me why we need to weight the actual soybean and flour?

 

The total salinity of the end product should be at least 18 percent, not just the brine. This number was derived from reverse calculations done from sodium levels from the nutritional facts label on the back of the kikkoman soy sauce bottle, as well as some numbers I found during some research I did (inlcuding recommended numbers from the company itself).  If you put just the soy cakes in without accounting for extra salt, the salt will redistribute into the soy cakes out of the brine and lower the total salt density and make it a more inviting environment for other microbes. This had happened to me while my soy sauce was out in the hot sun so it was starting to form a skin of yeast or bacteria on top, and it started to smell a little funky (a smell that reminded me of parmesan cheese, a little like vomit, lol). Anyways it didn't smell horrible or rotten and it got better after I added more salt, but unfortunately, I had to totally redo my batch because an animal had actually gotten into it and ate all the soycakes!  :wacko: Had to dump the whole thing out

 

Redoing my batch, I used about twice the amount of soy, 10 lbs of soy beans and 15 liters of water. Measured out 18 percent of total weight of soybeans cakes and water for salt. The soybean cakes were weighed after the mold had taken hold to account for any weight change. It's been almost three weeks and the soy sauce has already gotten considerably darker and is starting to smell like a strong miso, with something extra that I can't describe (it smells like caramelized or cured meat for some reason). It has gotten considerably colder outside where I am so I brought it back inside and am stirring it every 1-2 days. Not sure what the lack of sun and warmth will do for the end product but I am planning to age this for at least 6 months to 2 years, taking out samples every six months. Hopefully the long aging times will more than make up for it. 

IMG_0937.JPG

 

 

IMG_0937.JPG


Edited by takadi (log)
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks so much Danielkumiadi it is a disease isn't it ..if it can be made I have to try 

I make fish sauce and my husband almost moved out but he now understands why! it is so good! 

 

If you've already made fish sauce, soy sauce should be a piece of cake! I would be evicted if I tried that lol. 

 

If you are interested in making korean style soy sauce and doenjang, I found a really awesome documentary on youtube that explains the basics of making it

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtbgUYBRRp8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SafxD279uFI


Edited by takadi (log)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, Takadi, i must weight my soycake, my water, and then weight 18% salt (from total weight cake + water) and put into the water?

Hummingbirdkiss:

No, its not desease, maybe it just came from our DNA. Lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup you got it...although the salt percentage is really up to your discretion. It can go as low as <16 percent although that is more risky and probably requires more purposeful innoculation and a more sterile environment. It can go as high as 25 to 30 percent.  From what I've seen however, 18-20 percent seems to be the usual number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, i decide to dip my meju / soy cake after... errrr.. (i forgot the first date i fermented my soy cake.. wait.. I'll count it from my last post :raz:) owww its 5 september 2015 and today is 5 October, exactly a month then.. its completely dried with not so much mold, you can see in the photo. has a little "meaty" and soy smell, plus little bit of bamboo smell. i just leave it in direct sunlight day and night and about 2 weeks i just leave it in warm warehouse / closet upstairs (actually almost forget about it hehe).

 

jt14hx.jpg

 

and what i found in the room, an old 30 years glass jar, i remembered this jar on my dining table back in 80's, i've measured it and it contains 3,7 liters of water, so its 1 US gallon volume. marked it.

 

2rnj1aq.jpg

imnn9z.jpg

 

my tap water and well water are about 250 ppm, so its rather hard water, and must be boiled first (well, its Indonesia lol), or can i use reversed osmosis water as well? and how much water needed to ferment 370 grams of dried meju?

 

thanks. will dip the meju right wafter i got water level suggestion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After calculating from http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Soy-Sauce, 370gr of meju only use 800gr of water. dang.. i must find smaller container. then i found clay pot for boil Chinese herbal medicine, can hold 1 litre ++.

 

4utoqq.jpg

 

still sterilizing with boiling some water directly on stove.

 

PS:

forget about the clay pot. it got crack, water drip out.. how unlucky :sad:


Edited by danielkurniadi (log)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Divide meju to 4 pieces, then here is how it looks, get some mold inside too.

33yt9gy.jpg

 

Finally, fermenting time! got a 2 litres plastic container.

2nl5ngw.jpg

 

Today is 9 October 2015 (as my reminder) :raz:

This brine contain 20% kosher salt. (without iodine).


Edited by danielkurniadi (log)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is it about soybeans in particular that seem to make it the only bean one can use to make a sauce with the taste, etc. we associate with 'soy sauce'?

I know one can make soy sauce substitutes from things like mushrooms, but why does there seem to be no information about making it with any other bean? Adzuki beans may produce a much sweeter sauce - I can understand that since they are made into 'sweet red bean paste' so something in them must be 'sweeter' - but is there another fairly commonly available bean which would ferment and produce a sauce that is similar to soy? It is much harder to find but one can now buy miso which is made with chickpeas and other beans so why not a 'chickpea' or 'black eyed pea' sauce that tastes very much like a 'soy sauce'?

edited because I thought that I was resurrecting an old thread - but apparently didn't read to the end of that thread (since I found the thread through an outside search).


Edited by Deryn (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deryn, see the following links

 

http://products.momofuku.com/bonji/

 

http://products.momofuku.com/hozon/

 

Your hunches are correct. I'm currently fermenting a chickpea "miso" or a hozon in David Chang's terminology. But pretty much anything with significant amounts of protein can be fermented to make a soy sauce/miso like product, particularly nuts and legumes and certain grains. Of course different sources are more conducive to different types of molds and bacteria...it would be interesting to see what a koji fermented cheese would look like

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, Takadi.

I don't think I am in a position to make my own due to where I live, not to mention that while it is obviously a very interesting process, it is probably above my pay grade. But, I am fascinated with what you and Daniel are doing.

I can only hope that eventually Momofuku might sell the bonji - currently I see they do but on a 'wholesale only' basis. I would love to try it.

I have to avoid soy as much as possible but Asian type dishes are my favorite foods it seems so I wish that a reasonable 'sauce' similar in taste, etc. made from other common beans was also readily available. When a recipe only calls for a bit it is easy to just leave it out but some require a fair amount of soysauce and that is trickier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After 4 months and going very well, somebody put my container below birdcage. The result is: something from that bird felldown into my container, bird food or maybe its feces. And grow another mold on my soycake. So consider it spoiled. RIP my Soy Sauce.

 

Maybe i must stop this. Before i kill somebody LOL.. AAARRRGGHH!!!

1451121236821326661036.jpg


Edited by danielkurniadi (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I've submerged the dried soy cakes in the water, what do I do regarding the lid? Is it meant to be left open? Covered with a cheese cloth to get air in but keep insects out? Or can I leave a lid completely on? I hope it can be left on so that there's no smell and no insects coming in. I have a balcony and can leave it in the sun all day, so would that help fermentation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey everyone, so after reading this thread I stayed planning on making my own batch this year. Then this week at the store I found a bottle off natural fermented soy sauce to compare regular store soy sauce too. After I tried it I know now I'll never by a bottle of industrial made soy sauce again because the flavor just dose not compare.

 

I'm going to start my batch once the weather gets warmer and I find some koji starter. I'll probably just post my batch in here instead of making a new thread.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Lisa Shock
      The basic formula for these cakes was developed by the wife of a mayonnaise salesman in an effort to help him out. I did a bit of research, and have found many variations. Early variants generally involve using less cocoa, which I cannot recommend. Later variants involve using cold water instead of boiling, adding salt, and additional leaveners. I personally do not feel that any additional salt is needed, as mayonnaise and that famous, tangy brand of salad dressing (sometimes the label just says 'Dressing') both contain a fair amount of salt. If you are using homemade mayonnaise or a low sodium product, an eighth teaspoon of salt may boost the flavor a bit. And, of course, somewhere along the way fans who prefer a certain salad dressing over mayonnaise started using it to make this cake. Nowadays, the Hellman's website has a different formula -one with added eggs and baking powder. I have not tried this newer formulation.
       
      Some versions of this recipe specify sifted cake flour. This will result in a very light cake with virtually no structural integrity, due to the paucity of eggs in this recipe compared to a regular cake. Cupcakes made this way give beautifully light results. However, every time I try to make a traditional 8" double layer cake with cake flour, I experience collapse. I recommend AP flour or at least a mix of cake and pastry flour.
       
      I have never made this with a gluten-free flour replacer. This recipe does not have very much structural integrity and as such does not make a good candidate for a gluten-free cake.
       
      I have made this cake many times, the type of sandwich spread you choose will affect the outcome. Made with mayonnaise, the cake has a good chocolate flavor and moistness. Made with that famous, tangy, off-white salad dressing that gets used as a sandwich spread, the cake has a subtle bit of extra brightness to the flavor. If one chooses to use a vegan mayonnaise, the result is tasty but lacking a little in structure; I would bake this in a square pan and frost and serve from the pan.
       
      The cocoa you use will also affect the flavor.  For a classic, homey flavor use a supermarket brand of cocoa. To add a little sophistication, use better, artisan type cocoa and use chocolate extract instead of the vanilla extract.
       
      Supposedly, the traditional frosting for this cake should have a caramel flavor. Look for one where you actually caramelize some sugar first. Modern recipes for the icing seem like weak imitations to me; using brown sugar as the main flavor instead of true caramel.
       
      Chocolate Mayonnaise or Salad Dressing Cake
      makes enough for two 8" round pans, or a 9" square (about 7 cups of batter)
       
      2 ounces/56g unsweetened, non-alkalized cocoa
      1 cup/236g boiling water
      1 teaspoon/4g regular strength vanilla extract
      3/4 cup/162g mayonnaise, vegan mayonnaise, or salad dressing (the tangy, off-white, sandwich spread type dressing)
      10.5ounces/300g all-purpose flour
      7 ounces/200g sugar
      0.35ounce/10g baking soda
       
      Preheat your oven to 350°.
      Grease or spray two 8" round pans or an equivalent volume square or rectangle.
      Place the cocoa in a medium (4-5 cup) bowl. Add the hot water and stir with a fork to break up any clumps. Allow to cool down a little,  then add the vanilla extract and the mayonnaise or salad dressing spread. Beat well to eliminate lumps. In the bowl of an electric mixer or larger regular bowl if making by hand, sift in the flour and add the sugar and baking soda. Mix the dry ingredients to distribute evenly. Slowly beat in the cocoa mixture. Mix until the batter has an even color. Pour immediately into the pans. If making two 8" rounds, weigh them to ensure they contain equal amounts.
      Bake for approximately 20 minutes, or until the center of the top springs back when touched lightly. (The toothpick test does NOT work well on this moist cake!) Allow the cake to cool a little and shrink from the sides of the pan before removing. Removal is easier while still a little warm.
      Good with or without frosting.
      Good beginner cake for kids to make.
       
       
       
    • By liuzhou
      I have just returned home to China from an almost two week trip to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), Vietnam. To get there I first travelled by train to the provincial capital, Nanning. The local airport only does domestic flights, whereas there are direct flights from Nanning. The flight time required that I stay overnight at the Aviation Hotel in Nanning, from which there is a regular direct bus to the airport.
       
      The trip to Nanning is about an hour and a half and passes through some nice karst scenery.
       
       
      After booking into the hotel, I set off for my favourite Nanning eating destination. Zhongshan Night market is a well known spot and very popular with the locals. I had forgotten that it was a local holiday - the place is always busy, but that night it was exceptionally so.
       

       

       
      It consists of one long street with hundreds of stalls and is basically a seafood market, although there are a few stalls selling alternatives.
       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       
      Filled myself with seafood (and some of that blood sausage above), slept soundly and, next morning, flew to Ho Chi Minh City.
       

       

       
      The rest of my trip can be seen here:
       
       
    • By Lisa Shock
      Years ago, when I visited Tokyo, I ate in a small but fascinating restaurant called 'It's Vegetable' which is now, unfortunately, closed. The chef was from Taiwan, and he made Buddhist vegetarian and vegan dishes that resembled meat. During my visit, several monks wearing robes stopped in to eat dinner. The dishes were pretty amazing. I understood some of them, like using seitan to mimic chicken in stir fry dishes, others used tofu products like yuba, but, others were complex and obviously difficult. One very notable dish we enjoyed was a large 'fish' fillet designed to serve several people. It had a 'skin' made of carefully layered 'scales' cut from nori and attached to the surface. Inside, the white 'flesh' flaked and tasted much like a mild fish. Anyway, apparently Buddhist fake meat meals are very popular in Taiwan and many places, cheap through to fine dining serve them. Yes, if I worked on it for a while, I could probably refine one or two dishes on my own, but, I am wondering if there's a Modernist Cuisine type cookbook for skillfully making these mock meats from scratch? (I have heard that some items are commercially made and available frozen there, much like soy-based burgers are in the US.) I am willing to try almost any offering, even if it's entirely in Chinese. And, I know how to use remailers to purchase regional items from the various local retailers worldwide who do not ship to the US.
    • By liuzhou
      Note: This follows on from the Munching with the Miao topic.
       
      The three-hour journey north from Miao territory ended up taking four, as the driver missed a turning and we had to drive on to the next exit and go back. But our hosts waited for us at the expressway exit and lead us up a winding road to our destination - Buyang 10,000 mu tea plantation (布央万亩茶园 bù yāng wàn mǔ chá yuán) The 'mu' is  a Chinese measurement of area equal to 0.07 of a hectare, but the 10,000 figure is just another Chinese way of saying "very large".
       
      We were in Sanjiang Dong Autonomous County, where 57% of the inhabitants are Dong.
       
      The Dong people (also known as the Kam) are noted for their tea, love of glutinous rice and their carpentry and architecture. And their hospitality. They tend to live at the foot of mountains, unlike the Miao who live in the mid-levels.
       
      By the time we arrived, it was lunch time, but first we had to have a sip of the local tea. This lady did the preparation duty.
       

       

       
      This was what we call black tea, but the Chinese more sensibly call 'red tea'. There is something special about drinking tea when you can see the bush it grew on just outside the window!
       
      Then into lunch:
       

       

      Chicken Soup
       

      The ubiquitous Egg and Tomato
       

      Dried fish with soy beans and chilli peppers. Delicious.
       

      Stir fried lotus root
       

      Daikon Radish
       

      Rice Paddy Fish Deep Fried in Camellia Oil - wonderful with a smoky flavour, but they are not smoked.
       

      Out of Focus Corn and mixed vegetable
       

      Fried Beans
       

      Steamed Pumpkin
       

      Chicken
       

      Beef with Bitter Melon
       

      Glutinous (Sticky) Rice
       

      Oranges
       

      The juiciest pomelo ever. The area is known  for the quality of its pomelos.
       
      After lunch we headed out to explore the tea plantation.
       

       

       

       

       
      Interspersed with the tea plants are these camellia trees, the seeds of which are used to make the Dong people's preferred cooking oil.
       

       
      As we climbed the terraces we could hear singing and then came across this group of women. They are the tea pickers. It isn't tea picking time, but they came out in their traditional costumes to welcome us with their call and response music. They do often sing when picking. They were clearly enjoying themselves.
       

       
      And here they are:
       
       
      After our serenade we headed off again, this time to the east and the most memorable meal of the trip. Coming soon.
       
       
    • By liuzhou
      Today is 元宵 yuán xiāo, the Lantern Festival marking the 15th day of the first lunar month and the last day of the Spring Festival (春节 chūn jié) which begins with the Chinese New Year on the 1st of the lunar month.
       
      Today is the day for eating 汤圆 tāng yuán, sweet glutinous rice balls.
       
      I was invited to take part in a celebration ceremony this morning in what is considered to be the city's most beautiful park. I half agree. It lies in the south of the city, surrounded by karst hill formations, but for me, the park itself is over-manicured. I like a bit of wild. That said, there are said to be around 700 species of wildlife, but most of that is on the inaccessible hills. There are pony rides for the kids and some of the locals are a bit on the wild side.
       

      Park Entrance
       

      Karst Hill
       
      Although the park has beautiful flower displays and great trees, what I love most is the bamboo. Such a beautiful plant and so useful.
       

       
      They had also hung the traditional red lanterns on some of the trees.
       


      The main reason for us to be there was to be entertained by, at first, these three young men who bizarrely welcomed us with  a rendition of Auld Lang Syne played on their bamboo wind instruments - I forget what they are called. They are wearing the traditional dress of the local Zhuang ethnic minority.
       

       
      Then some local school kids sang for us and did a short play in English. Clap, clap, clap.
       
      Then on to the main event. We were asked to form groups around one of four tables looking like this.
       

       
      Appetising, huh? What we have here at top is a dough made from glutinous rice flour. Then below black sesame paste and ground peanut paste. We are about to learn to make Tangyuan, glutinous rice balls. Basically you take a lump of dough, roll it into a ball, then flatten it, then form a cup shape. add some of each or either of the two pastes and reform the ball to enclose the filling. Simple! Maybe not.
       

       
      Some of us were more successful than others
       

       
      These are supposed to be white, but you can see the filling - not good; its like having egg showing all over the outside of your scotch eggs.
       
      Modesty Shame prevents me telling you which were mine.
       

       
      At least one person seemed to think bigger is better! No! They are meant to be about an inch in diameter. Sometimes size does matter!
       
      Finally the balls we had made were taken away to be boiled in the park's on-site restaurant. What we were served were identically sized balls with no filling showing. They are served in this sweet ginger soup. The local pigs probably had ours for lunch.
       
       

       


      The orange-ish and purplish looking ones are made in the same way, but using red and black glutinous rice instead.
       
      Fun was had, which was the whole point.
       
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×