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Aperitivo Americano

128 posts in this topic

The Lillet and the Cocchi have arrived!

I have wasted little time in trying a Corpse Reviver #2 and a White Negroni.

The Negroni (1:1:1/2 of Gordon's London Dry, Cocchi Americano, Noilly Prat) was immense.

I was not as keen on the Corpse Reviver - though I had to sub Grand Marnier for Cointreau and had no absinthe.

Next up - Vesper.

Don't think that's a negroni - maybe a reverse martini?

I noticed that there was a "White Negroni" recipe that seemed to be floating around (including on Serious Eats) with gin, Cocchi Americano, and dry vermouth.

It has little to do with Wayne Collins' original version (gin, Suze, Lillet) though.

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Yeah, I'm all for tweaking recipes to accommodate ingredients that aren't on hand, but I don't think Aperitivo Americano is close enough to a potable bitter to qualify this for the "Negroni" moniker. This variation sounds like a good drink, but it deserves its own name.

Also, thampik, I would encourage you to pick up some Cointreau and some absinthe or pastis and try the Corpse Reviver again. Grand Marnier might work (I've never tried it), but absinthe is what really brings the drink together, as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I think the Corpse Reviver No. 2 is one of the greats.


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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And do try a white negroni as well - I had a great version with Bittermen's Amere Sauvage at Amor y Amargo last week (made with Lillet, but the Apertivo Americano couldn't hurt)

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Now that Suze is back in the U.S. it'd be interesting to try the original White Negroni with Cocchi subbed in . . .

and if any more votes are needed on the Corpse Reviver: yeah, it's like Mkayahara said (channeling Jeff Lebowski?), the absinthe really ties it all together.


"The thirst for water is a primitive one. Thirst for wine means culture, and thirst for a cocktail is its highest expression."

Pepe Carvalho, The Buenos Aires Quintet by Manuel Vazquez Montalban

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Now that Suze is back in the U.S. it'd be interesting to try the original White Negroni with Cocchi subbed in . . .

and if any more votes are needed on the Corpse Reviver: yeah, it's like Mkayahara said (channeling Jeff Lebowski?), the absinthe really ties it all together.

I keep hearing that Suze is now available in the US. Are there more details available somewhere? I have not been able to find it so far.

Regarding the Corpse Reviver No. 2, the absinthe is a key component. Pastis works too since it's only a rinse. The Corpse Reviver No. 2 is indeed a fantastic drink, so I think it's worth tracking down all the components. Plus you will get to make the cocktails from the Pernod, Herbsaint, Pastis thread.

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Sorry to go back a year, but do you still have a source for the Whitley Neill, or were you finishing a bottle -- I'm still hoping they start up U.S. distribution again.

There are a few stray bottles around these parts -- Joyal's, at least, RI locals -- but, no, no source besides the shelves.

And the thought of a Weeski with Redbreast and Cocchi is, like Thampik said, doing things in my head that are hard to describe, and it's not even noon here yet . . . .

Yes. Exactly. My apologies.

Also, thampik, I would encourage you to pick up some Cointreau and some absinthe or pastis and try the Corpse Reviver again. Grand Marnier might work (I've never tried it), but absinthe is what really brings the drink together, as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I think the Corpse Reviver No. 2 is one of the greats.

Agree with Matt here -- without absinthe or pastis the CR is like an Old Fashioned (that is to say, a Cock-Tail) without bitters: makes you wonder what all the fuss is about.

Now that Suze is back in the U.S. it'd be interesting to try the original White Negroni with Cocchi subbed in . . .

Just had one with a meaty gin:

2 oz Death's Door

1 oz Cocchi

3/4 oz Suze

It's fantastic, much better than with Lillet, methinks.

And -- sorry again -- I shlepped the Suze from Tokyo two years ago.


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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And -- sorry again -- I shlepped the Suze from Tokyo two years ago.

You'll have to pick up another bottle in Montreal this summer, then. :wink:


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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At Fred Yarm's suggestion, I've been subbing the new Salers liqueur for Suze. I enjoyed the White Negroni, but it could be more more bitter and a bit less sweet to really warrant the Negroni name, even with Cocchi. I'll swap the ratios next time.


Kindred Cocktails | Craft + Collect + Concoct + Categorize + Community

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bmdaniel and FrogPrincesse, thanks for the correction (I did get the recipe from Serious Eats).

mkayahara - I'll definitely try the Corpse Reviver #2 again as I had such high hopes for it.

I have since bought some Cointreau, but it would appear that I need to buy Suze and Absinthe. Could you recommend what absinthe to buy (seems pretty expensive) : if it is from this list (http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/C-358.aspx), that would be grand!

I would really appreciate some ratios for both drinks as well - I can see that looking up the web may be a little misleading.

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Kindred Cocktails may not be perfect, but the recipes are curated. We try to reference original sources when available, and/or note modernizations by noteworthy people.

Corpse Reviver #2

by Harry Craddock, The Savoy Cocktail

3/4 oz Gin

3/4 oz Triple sec, Cointreau

3/4 oz Aromatized Wine, Lillet Blanc

3/4 oz Lemon juice

1 rinse Absinthe

Shake, strain, straight up, cocktail glass rinsed with absinthe

My notes: Creole Shrubb + Bonal Gentiane Quina esp. good

White Negroni

by Pegu Club

1 1/2 oz Gin

1 oz Aromatized Wine, Lillet Blanc

3/4 oz Suze

Stir and strain.


Kindred Cocktails | Craft + Collect + Concoct + Categorize + Community

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Thanks, EvergreenDan for the info - I have also bookmarked the site.

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I have since bought some Cointreau, but it would appear that I need to buy Suze and Absinthe. Could you recommend what absinthe to buy (seems pretty expensive) : if it is from this list (http://www.thewhisky....com/C-358.aspx), that would be grand!

Looking at the list of absinthes on Whiskey Exchange, any of the Jade products would be great.

Plus, you'll probably be fine with a 20cl (aka 200ml) bottle for general cocktail use.

Unless you plan on drinking absinthe with the traditional sugar cube/ice water drip method, you probably won't go through that much of it at a time.

I generally keep some in a small 3oz spray bottle/mister, and a bit more in an empty bitters bottle for dashing.

I've made enumerable Sazeracs, Corpse Revivers #2s, and other absinthe rinsed/dashed cocktails, and I've still got plenty left.


Edited by campus five (log)

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thanks, campus five. and also for the spray tip - I was about to ask how one goes about "rinsing" the glass!

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thanks, campus five. and also for the spray tip - I was about to ask how one goes about "rinsing" the glass!

The low tech approach consists of adding a small amount of absinthe/pastis to the glass, rolling it around to coat the inside of the glass, and discarding the remainder.

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Suze and Absinthe are on order - will report back with results.

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thanks, campus five. and also for the spray tip - I was about to ask how one goes about "rinsing" the glass!

The low tech approach consists of adding a small amount of absinthe/pastis to the glass, rolling it around to coat the inside of the glass, and discarding the remainder.

If one wants to jazz it up a bit I have found a small, usually metal, spray bottle makes a nice touch. Think a small fancy bottle a bit like an old timey perfume bottle with which to spray the glass or surface of the drink when called for. Don't know where you might find it online. One of my local liquor stores carries them.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Just had the Suze and Absinthe delivered and tried out the "real" White Negroni using EvergreenDan's ratios - I can see the difference the Suze makes to the drink.

I aim to try out the Corpse Reviver #2 tomorrow with Absinthe - might have to use the "low-tech" rinse approach :raz: in the absence of a spray bottle.

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As I had no lemon juice, I ended making a Vesper with Cocchi. Really enjoyable.

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A couple of drinks with Cocchi Americano last night.

Zephyr (Benjamin Schwartz, via Bartender's Choice app): gin, cocchi americano, and green chartreuse.

7470177020_f69d794f67_z.jpg

Intensely aromatic, in the same vein as the Ice Pick I tried a few days ago (different ingredients though).

For him I made an old-fashioned variation created by Candelaria, a Parisian bar, with bourbon, bonal, cocchi americano, and orange bitters.

7470115294_fbe0d757a1_z.jpg

They wonder in the article why it's called a Mountain Man. I suspect that it has to do with the use of Bonal gentiane-quina. Gentian is considered a mountain plant, at least in France.

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mkayahara - the Corpse Reviver #2 does indeed taste a lot better with Cointreau and Absinthe; I particularly liked the aniseedy note.

However I am finding the drink difficult to love - mainly I think because the lemon (freshly squeezed) seems to really take over the drink (I am using equal quantities of Gin, Cointreau, Lilet blanc and lemon juice).

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I shouldn't sound like a contrarian with my very first post on this forum, but personally I'm going back to Lillet. Two of my top ten cocktails call for Lillet blanc: the popular Corpse Reviver #2 and the not-as-popular 20th Century Cocktail. I think Cocchi Americano is fine, if unremarkable, in a Corpse Reviver #2. But in a 20th Century Cocktail - and I double checked tonight after a two month hiatus - it is absolutely dreadful. Terrible. That drink is (in my opinion) much, much better with a fresh bottle of Lillet. When I first opened the Cocchi Americano and tried it in a 20th Century Coctail, I thought I was drinking the cocktail with an old, stale bottle of Lillet. I let the Cocchi Americano oxidize a couple months in the fridge but that didn't help. Since I believe the CR2 is no better (if that) with Cocchi Americano, I will happily switch back to Lillet blanc.

This kind of surprises me because on its own I think Americano is delicious. Unadorned in a glass it's a hands down winner next to Lillet blanc. But in two of my favorite mixed drinks, I believe it is a poor runner up to the original. That said, I look forward to finishing the bottle I have straight and not mixed.

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By itself Cocchi Americano is quite delicious. Just one large ice cube and a blood orange zest. That was my drink tonight.

7483514596_e373b73e37_z.jpg

I like it with a splash or two of soda but I agree it is quite nice. Then again I like Lillet and Bonal that way as well. Of the three Bonal may be my favorite.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Enjoying a drink I found on Kindred Cocktails by Kyle Davidson of the Violet Hour. He calls it The Dry Season, a perfect drink for this early fall evening:

1 oz blanco tequila (he says El Tesoro, I had Espolon)

1 oz mezcal (he says DM Vida, I have DM Chichicapa)

1 oz Cocchi Americano

1/2 oz Aperol

Stir; strain; up.


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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I shouldn't sound like a contrarian with my very first post on this forum, but personally I'm going back to Lillet.

Welcome, Van Stratten. Allow me to take a different approach to your contrarian one. :wink:

If you snoop through this topic, you'll find many examples of cocktails where the specific characteristics of Cocchi Americano are perfect, if not extraordinary. I agree that the two you mentioned have not yet produced the sorts of results I'd have hoped for with the CA. But perhaps we've got it backwards, trying to shoehorn Cocchi Americano into those well-worn loafers, CR#2 and 20thC. I dunno.

What I do know is that there are many great CA drinks out there. The Dry Season, about which I just posted, The Kina Cocktail, these two drinks using the Jerry Thomas Decanter Bitters, Dave Wondrich's Weeski, the PDT Brown Bomber and White Negroni... I could go on: these are all remarkable drinks that are either classic (or contemporary but founded on classic principles) that depend on Cocchi Americano utterly.

An example of my own devising: I came up with the Lindberg's Baby recipe for a fundraiser here at which I was host bartender, and it showcases every good feature of the Cocchi Americano (as well as the outstanding Ransom Old Tom gin):

1½ oz Ransom Old Tom gin

1 oz Cocchi Americano

scant ½ oz Marie Brizard Apry apricot liqueur

dash Scrappy's or Fee's grapefruit bitters

dash Bitter Truth Jerry Thomas Decanter or Angostura bitters

No need to throw out Lillet or CA. Each has a rightful place, methinks.


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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