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The Atkins Diet Topic


circeplum

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Look, this will get folks angry at me, but there's no magic to Atkins. It works for awhile because it's just another diet like the South Beach one, the old Beverly HIlls diet, Pritikin, the Air Force diet and all the rest--your restricting calories whether you know it or not. Your eating habits change enough in the way you approach food that you lose weight, expecially in the beginning stages. Plus you fill up faster when you consume the amount of fat in a typical Atkins meal. But my endocrinologist, who has worked with Stanford University's Dr. Gerald Reaven (he's an M.D. and prof. of medicine who heads up the division of endo. and metabolism) always says "diets" don't work in the end because you need to commit to a sensible eating plan for life and Atkins is not sensible in the long run. It may take years but sooner or later you will crave the carbs,etc. you can't have. All the blood tests that show improvement are fine for now, but what about blood tests done down the road?? There aren't any. None. No scientifically based, controled studies have been conducted on the effects of Atkins long term. Real science is in Dr. Reaven's research which has been going on well over 30 years. I'm sorry I don't have references handy right this minute, but check out his "Sydrome X" book which is a layman's version describing work--which is extensive.

And btw, I have been following a modified food plan based on Raven's work since last Oct. and have lost well over 50 pounds. And I pig out probably 2 times a week on Xanthippe's good cooking, too. Atkins can't refute Reaven because he (Atkins) is dead, and I certainly don't argue with the fact that the popularity of his first book and the current re-tread at least gets people to pay attention to what they eat. Bottom line here is that this long-winded post is my way of saying I pretty much agree with Drinking Chef. There's a happy middle in all the diet snake oil hoopla; its called moderation.

Oops, Xan. usually edits my writing but I wrote this solo. She'd probably go all prim ex-English teacher on me if she saw this post and all the grammar errors!

Edited by Socrates (log)
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Look, this will get folks angry at me, but there's no magic to Atkins.  It works for awhile because it's just another diet like the South Beach one, the old Beverly HIlls diet, Pritikin, the Air Force diet and all the rest--your restricting calories whether you know it or not.  Your eating habits change enough in the way you approach food that you lose weight, expecially in the beginning stages.  Plus you fill up faster when you consume the amount of fat in a typical Atkins meal.  But my endocrinologist,  who has worked with Stanford University's Dr. Gerald Reaven (he's an M.D. and prof. of medicine who heads up the division of endo. and metabolism) always says "diets" don't work in the end because you need to commit to a sensible eating plan for life and Atkins is not sensible in the long run.  It may take years but sooner or later you will crave the carbs,etc. you can't have.  All the blood tests that show improvement are fine for now, but what about blood tests done down the road??  There aren't any.  None.  No scientifically based, controled studies have been conducted on the effects of Atkins long term.  Real science is in Dr. Reaven's research which has been going on well over 30 years.  I'm sorry I don't have references handy right this minute, but check out his "Sydrome X" book which is a layman's version describing work--which is extensive.

Who's angry? :smile: I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing. Let's face it, there are a variety of approaches that can all produce successful blood and weight loss results. But, your point about making fundamental changes is, IMO, the most important one.

In weight loss there is the mode and there is the will. I believe (with some exceptions) that if one's will is firmly in place, any reasonable mode will produce results--especially at the beginning when one's weight is at its highest. After I started Atkins, I joked with my wife that once I committed (via being on Atkins) to give up desserts for the rest of my life, I could have lost weight on anyone's plan. That said, I still believe that there are some significant, measurable and safe benefits that come with being on Atkins as well as some important lessons to be learned from it. Of course, the downside is the long-term sustainability (or lack thereof) of his regimen.

As for the long-term dangers of Atkins, I don't buy into their existence. I'm not a doctor (nor do I play one on the net) but I've talked to several who think that it is safe AND for the clinically obese the dangers of being on Atkins are relatively small compared to the risks already being incurred due to their overweight.

But yes...it is a tough row to hoe. As many benefits as I've experienced while being on Atkins, I'm currently not on it because I hit the wall. For a foodie, it is an especially difficult routine. Ideally, with the concession that one who is dieting will always have the occasional splurge, one could be on Atkins ~4 continuous weeks per month and still greatly improve his or her health. Are there better ways? Maybe. I think it comes down to the individual. For many, this may be the absolute best approach there is.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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Drinkingchef: I did the "listen to your body" thing for a long time. Something to be said for that, but by the time I got up to 224 pounds and a size 18/20, I decided maybe letting my appetite call all the shots wasn't the best idea. If I had to stay at this weight (207 now), I could accept myself the way I am, of course... but I don't have to stay at this weight. I can eat well, cut out the flour and sugar and rice (etc.) and lose the weight. I should also point out that, like other low-carb dieters posting here, I eat plenty of vegetables--more than I did before I started the diet. Why does this "no vegetables" myth persist, even when so many of us are saying loud and clear that we eat lots of vegetables?

I should say that I agree with you to a point. If listening to your body is making matters worse, than your brain might have to step in and change a few of your eating habits. My body craves good veggies, often sushi, tofu, and falafels. The only really horrible thing I crave is chocolate(or any other sweets, really). I have a bit when I crave it and it doesn't turn into an all out binge by the end of the week. What I am trying to say about listening to your body is this, if you want a little chocolate, have it, before you are so obsessed with it that you have cleared out the local 7-11. And I am not opposed to restricting processed, refined carbs like white flours, sugar. But I think atkins goes too far. I cant see how sprouted wheat bread with all sort of seeds and grains in it could be bad for you. mmmmm. Chewy, delicious, bread.

The "no-veg" myth comes from people like the man who was my restaurant this past week. He proudly proclaimed he was on the atkins diet, and ordered lamb, with a side if prawns, no starch, no veg. Just a pound of meat and sauce. Yikes

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I should say that I agree with you to a point. If listening to your body is making matters worse, than your brain might have to step in and change a few of your eating habits. My body craves good veggies, often sushi, tofu, and falafels. The only really horrible thing I crave is chocolate(or any other sweets, really). I have a bit when I crave it and it doesn't turn into an all out binge by the end of the week. What I am trying to say about listening to your body is this, if you want a little chocolate, have it, before you are so obsessed with it that you have cleared out the local 7-11. And I am not opposed to restricting processed, refined carbs like white flours, sugar. But I think atkins goes too far. I cant see how sprouted wheat bread with all sort of seeds and grains in it could be bad for you. mmmmm. Chewy, delicious, bread.

The "no-veg" myth comes from people like the man who was my restaurant this past week. He proudly proclaimed he was on the atkins diet, and ordered lamb, with a side if prawns, no starch, no veg. Just a pound of meat and sauce. Yikes

I wonder if we've read some of the same books--"Overcoming Overeating" was my bible for years. Some of what you've said has a very familiar ring to it.

I tend to agree about having a little of something if you crave it, rather than clearing out the 7-11--and rather than eating a bunch of stuff you think you "should" want and then finally giving in and adding the thing you crave on top of it. (An old specialty of mine.) On the other hand, some people find a little of something actually worsens the cravings. I can eat a little dessert or pizza now and then, it seems, without going bonkers; but donuts just kick off every carb craving imaginable. Go figure: I never even used to be that much into donuts. But now they're my kryptonite.

Atkins doesn't exactly forbid the kind of carbs you describe--the sprouted wheat bread--except during the first few weeks. As people get further along into the diet, they're supposed to add in more carbs. If you read his book "Atkins for Life" it gives a good picture of how he envisioned the ongoing weight loss and maintenance phases, where you wouldn't eat white bread or sugar but you might have small quantities of whole-grain bread. Everybody thinks of the induction phase when they hear "Atkins," but that's only part of the plan.

My own plan is looser--not because I think Atkins is extreme or wrong, but because I don't want to give up some things. I can give up cookies and donuts and that sort of thing; but I have fresh sweet corn, and "lite" bread in small quantities, and sometimes starchy vegetables like winter squash. And actually, all of those things would be permissible on Atkins during the later phases, if you counted the carbs -- the main difference is probably that I'm not keeping a close count most of the time, and that I skipped induction altogether.

As for the guy in your restaurant... sometimes I wonder if people are using the old out-of-print editions from before Atkins embraced vegetables. I'll sometimes have all-meat meals at the cafeteria where I work, but only because their salad bar is atrocious and their hot vegetables are canned and overcooked and usually recycled from one day to the next (if someone doesn't buy those forlorn mixed veggies today, they're coming back for an encore performance tomorrow). At home there are always vegetables. I grew up on "meat + 2," so now that's usually meat + veg + salad, hold the potatoes. (Except for the occasional scraped-out baked potato skin, mmm.)

Now, a reply to Socrates...

You say Atkins isn't sensible in the long run because sooner or later you crave the carbs you can't have. But it sounds like you're equating Atkins with the "induction" phase. Later in the plan (or in my case, throughout it, since I skipped induction) you can have moderate quantities of carbs.

And my calorie intake, I should add, is not lower on this plan. I'm eating calorically dense food like butter, cream, nuts, steaks, cheese--in sizable quantities. (A normal steak for me is between 8 and 16 ounces, none of this "deck of cards" baloney.) You should see how much butter our household goes through. I can run through a stick cooking one dinner for two. And yet I'm down 15 pounds. So much for the caloric restriction theory...!

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And my calorie intake, I should add, is not lower on this plan. I'm eating calorically dense food like butter, cream, nuts, steaks, cheese--in sizable quantities. (A normal steak for me is between 8 and 16 ounces, none of this "deck of cards" baloney.)  You should see how much butter our household goes through. I can run through a stick cooking one dinner for two. And yet I'm down 15 pounds. So much for the caloric restriction theory...!

I've had a very similar experience. I was going through butter, mayo, bacon, etc. without hesitation and still lowered my weight, and also my cholesterol and bp substantially in 12 weeks. I stayed on longer than that, but only had the blood re-tested after week 12.

Now, I've been basically off for the summer. But I will start up again soon. And while I have gained some weight back (5 of 35 pounds), regular exercise and dietary sensibility have allowed me to maintain fairly well. I just know that I personally cannot do Atkins everyday for the rest of my life...maybe on most of them, but not on every one of them.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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There are a lot of really great ideas/suggestions in this thread (and all over this board!) - thanks!

Re: women getting sick on atkins

On the induction phase of the diet, I tend to get nauseated after every meal and later, just at the thought of meat itself. I'm definitely a meat eater, and in the induction phase I'm not doing anything too dramatic other than avoiding sugars and starches. I follow the basic plan of a lot of veggies and a normal amount of meat. I think I'm just one of those people that believes meat+some sort of bread/starch=normal. Or, maybe like applesauce and pork, the starches serve to balance the heaviness of the fats. ?

I started it again this morning & am breaking out in a queasy sweat just thinking about breakfast...but yet, I've never had a more healthy diet than when I'm on the low carb (I normally avoid veggies).

It might also be that, instead of snacking, I go for black tea - it may be too acidic and that may be what upsets my stomach. I'll try it for a while with chamomile or mint and see what happens.

Or, maybe my sweet tooth is staging a coup. :rolleyes:

Dieting/weight gain:

Going off the low-carb diet doesn't seem to quite have the yo-yo effect, in my experiance, that other diets cause.

I've always read that the big problem with dieting is that when you cut back on calorie intake dramatically, your body goes into "starvation" mode and your metabolism slows down, making weight gain inevitable if you go back to your former eating habits.

However, Atkins certainly doesn't deny you calories or suggest you lower food intake, therefore, IMHO, your body should never think it's in a time of famine. If you do happen to go off of it and return to former eating habits, you should, theoretically, just stop losing weight. You'll eventually gain weight again if you really go crazy, but it shouldn't be the dramatic "slingshot" gain of the yo-yo dieter. My reasoning may well be completely flawed, but hey, it's a thought. :)

In my case, I lost 40 pounds, I went off the diet and now, 2 years of (really) bad eating habits later, I've gained back half the weight I lost. There was no sudden dramatic weight gain at any time, unless you count a 5 pound spike the week the ice cream monkey landed on my back and PMS went for my knees with the lead pipe. I went down without a fight.

Homer: " Don't you like ice cream better when it's covered in hot fudge?... and mounds of whipped cream?... chocolate nuts, and those crumpled up cookie things they put on top!....Mmm... crumpled up cookie things."

What has helped make the induction phase more bearable for me (and nearly unbearable for my husband) is to list everything I'm craving. Imagine Bubba ala Forrest Gump, just sub "chocolate" for "shrimp" and there you have it. It worked though...I imagined everything I wanted, said it out loud, then fell asleep to blissful dreams of dense rich chocolate torté, creamy praline cheesecake and Ben & Jerry's Phish Food (maybe I should have thought about the guy who drowned in the vat of hershey's chocolate?). The lists eventually got shorter and tapered off... I became, as someone else mentioned earlier, much more choosy regarding what desserts I would have if I could have one.

I discovered later that Rocky Mountian Chocolate Company also has some very tasty sugar free chocolates. I especially recommend the mint truffles or chocolate covered "toffee" (I want to know how they make that!) if you live in Colorado or are able to order it.

Ethnic/Asian food is also a lifesaver - I know much more about making some of my favorite things myself than I did back then, as well as I've vowed to never leave tomatos out of my diet ever again. I love them, will not live with out them and that's that...so tikka masala is back on the menu. There is a tandoori chicken in butter sauce in Madhur Jaffrey's Indian Cooking that should fit the bill quite well - the sauce is roughly heavy cream, butter, tomato paste and spices, fresh cilantro. It is delicious! Kung Pao Chicken is not difficult to make at home and can be adjusted for less carbs... lettuce wraps, cabbage rolls, stir fries, satays... Greek foods as someone mentioned - gyros without the bread or marinated chicken/beef (cook's illustrated's book on chicken has some great marinades for kabobs and the mint/cayenne marinade is especially good with feta cheese)... Japanese: sashimi over cucumber salad?

Italian -I found a noodleless low carb lasagne recipe on a board somewhere that was fantastic. Eggplant stood in for the noodles... I'd eat it off the diet without a second thought. If anyone wants that recipe, feel free to message me and I'll go dig it up.

I caught an episode of 30 Minute Meals aimed for the low carb set and from what I've seen, quite a few of Rachel Ray's other recipes (if you like her cooking) could lend themselves to that plan as well...so that's something to look for as well.

The diet itself:

Is the diet good for you? I think it is, my parents have both been on it with favorable results. But, I also believe there will be some tweaking to it in the future before a comfortable balance is found (like tomatos! Book says few to no tomatos & I want my tomatos!). The hypoglycemic approach to things worked pretty well for me - it was liveable (so why did I stop? I admit, I was lazy). Little to no processed foods, complex carbs: spelt, wheatberries, brown rice, small amounts of whole wheat pasta/breads... the trick, I'd read somewhere, was to balance fiber and the carbohydrates - the fiber apparantly slows down the digestion & absorbtion of sugars and prevents an insulin spike. That's my very extremely painfully rough paraphrase of it, at least.

I also read in Shape or Fitness (again, extremely rough paraphrase) that when carbs break down into glycogen, the cells hold up to 3x their weight in water. Protien does not absorb any water during digestion and so reduces bloating... I've heard it said before that the first part of the protien diet induction phase when you experiance that sudden drop in weight is just water weight... this helps it make a bit more sense. However, I am by no means saying that the continueing weight loss is water weight (obviously it is not, people visibly lose fat), but for those who are critical about such a dramatic, sudden weight loss (there are those who feel that more than 2 pounds a week is dangerous and would argue, therefore, that 10 pounds in 2 weeks is extremely dangerous), that may provide an acceptable explanation. You may lose 5-10 pounds in water weight, but be averaging the "safe" 1-2 pounds fat every week (which seems to be the pattern most people settle into after induction is over, anyway).

Last but not least, snacks:

Celery - with sugar free peanut butter (maybe mix it with splenda?) or cream cheese.

You could soften the cream cheese and add dill, garlic, chives, basil or any number of fresh herbs or spices...or shredded sharp chedder cheese.

spinach & artichoke dip, IIRC, is mayo, sour cream, cheese and seasonings - no reason one couldn't dip crisped cucumber slices or celery into that.

Ham, turkey, or roast beef wrapped around cream cheese with some chives mixed in.

I ate buffalo wings until the thought of them made me green (still does).

desserts:

I've seen recipes for merangue cookies - I wonder if splenda would work in place of sugar?

I did a low carb cheesecake recipe I found somewhere -it didn't souffle on me, but it did have an odd texture. It ended up I was eating cheesecake morning noon and night instead of eating normally, so that was that.

". . . if waters are still, then they can't run at all, deep or shallow."

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megaira wrote...

I discovered later that Rocky Mountian Chocolate Company also has some very tasty sugar free chocolates. I especially recommend the mint truffles or chocolate covered "toffee" (I want to know how they make that!) if you live in Colorado or are able to order it.

I've always wondered about this...is sugar-free also carb free? There is a RMCF in the building where I work and I've always resisted because having read candy labels at the grocery store, my experience is that sugar-free isn't necessarily low-carb. Can you remember the specifics?

megaira also wrote...

I did a low carb cheesecake recipe I found somewhere -it didn't souffle on me, but it did have an odd texture. It ended up I was eating cheesecake morning noon and night instead of eating normally, so that was that.

I made my standard cheesecake (took out about 50% of the sugar) and calculated that the entire thing (10" cake about 4" high) contained around 350 g of carbs. From there, I was able to figure out how much I could safely eat as a portion--a relatively big piece contained an acceptable amount of carbs. It was delightful and my non-Atkins friends also thought it was great. After a dinner party we hosted, one of them sent me a thank you note with a picture of himself eating the leftover cake I sent home with him. From my perspective it made me realize that the original recipe, which is a damned good one, contained far more sugar than was necessary. After being on Atkins a while, of course it tasted plenty sweet to me (and to our guests) and the texture was basically identical to the full-sugar version.

megaira later wrote...

I ate buffalo wings until the thought of them made me green (still does).

LOL, I turned orange first, then green. :biggrin:

Thanks for 'weighing in' megaira...it's great to hear another perspective.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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I've always wondered about this...is sugar-free also carb free?  There is a RMCF in the building where I work and I've always resisted because having read candy labels at the grocery store, my experience is that sugar-free isn't necessarily low-carb.  Can you remember the specifics?

I should have done a bit more research before recommending them. I recall looking for the nutritional info at the time and finding something -but perhaps I wasn't looking too hard, IYKWIM.

I just went looking for nutritional info on their website (www.rmcf.com) & there is nothing to be found (Isn't it law now that it has to be posted somewhere? I've never noticed any nutritional information at their stores, either...maybe I'll stop by there today).

There is a Canadian website for them (www.rockychoc.com/nosugar.htm) that posts some nutritional info for "no sugar added" chocolates. They list the one chocolate as 60% carb, and say "Since it is primarily a carbohydrate, compensation should be made in the diet plan."

I was under the impression (maybe wrongly) that "no sugar added" did not necessarily equal "sugar free" and that to label something "sugar free" you were under a more strict set of guidelines. But the Canadian "no sugar added" chocolates sound like the same chocolates I see in the stores.

So my apologies... can I retract my recommendation temporarily? :blink:

I made my standard cheesecake (took out about 50% of the sugar) and calculated that the entire thing (10" cake about 4" high) contained around 350 g of carbs. 

4" high cheesecake! :D

I'd read somewhere as well that in a lot of desserts -especially cookies and bar cookies, the sugar can be significantly reduced without a noticeable impact in flavor -though, texture may suffer somewhat (or, will it!) I've been meaning to try it with Hershey's brownies and a chocolate chip recipe I found in Cook's Illustrated that is *fabulous* but 1.5 cups sugar to 2 1/8 cups flour...with the chips I put in (not chocolate, therefore not acidic enough to possibly balance them out) they're nearly too sweet to eat. I just buckle every time and think to myself "eh, next time!" Now I'll just have to wait a while.

LOL, I turned orange first, then green. :biggrin:

:laugh:

ETA-d'oh, pardon my antics...figuring out the quote function.

Edited by megaira (log)

". . . if waters are still, then they can't run at all, deep or shallow."

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All I can say here is that this topic is like discussing religion or politics. There's no convincing the other fellow of your position or belief system because we all think we're right. I still believethere needs to be scientifically developed, controlled studies with people who have been on Atkins for years, and not 12 weeks, but as another poster said---I'm not a doctor. I do trust my endo., though, and he has worked with Dr. Reaven. I watch what I eat but don't obsess about sugar-free food (although I do like Splendra in an "average" cup of coffee-not the really good stuff), especially Xanthippe's great desserts. But I have cut out bread at most meals except special ones plus I really don't eat much pasta anymore (Xan. does, lucky woman, and bread too). I'll never ever say I'm on a "diet", though, because its as obscene a four-letter word in my vocabulary as ever there was one! :wink:

Xan. says I'm wasting my breath trying to change you're opinions. To her, John Lennon had it nailed: "Whatever gets you through the night". I do what works for me, so leave other people alone to do what works for them. She should be a diplomat. :biggrin:

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Xan. says I'm wasting my breath trying to change you're opinions.  To her, John Lennon had it nailed:  "Whatever gets you through the night".  I do what works for me, so leave other people alone to do what works for them.  She should be a diplomat.  :biggrin:

I, for one, really appreciate your comments...and you can regard them as 'successful' without having necessarily changed anyone's mind. Through exchanges like this, we all move toward a more complete understanding of what choices are available for us.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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About sugar-free chocolate... it's usually sweetened with maltitol and/or other "sugar alcohols" (dunno why they call them that, they're not alcohol per se). Sugar alcohols can cause, um, some intestinal distress for many people for the same reason that they're not considered "impact carbs": most people can't digest them.

I've heard that if you can eat SF chocolate without getting gas and other unpleasant effects, it means you're digesting the stuff and should count most or all of the sugar alcohol carbs. And if, like me, you suffer after eating the stuff, then you're not digesting it and needn't count the carbs.

Most of the time, the label will break down the carb count into sugars (like if there's lactose from milk powder), fiber, and sugar alcohol -- only the actual sugars are considered "impact carbs." My friend who's diabetic can eat that stuff without it affecting her blood sugar much, although she learned the hard way (as did I) not to eat a whole lot of it at once.

Sugar-free Reese's PB cups are particularly tasty but particularly awful that way--the lactitol they use has a pronounced laxative effect.

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Haven't read through the thread, but I have tried the Atkins diet...

I dieted for approximately 20 days. In that time I lost about 15 pounds, nearly a pound a day. Did I keep it off? Not really. I kept it off for a month or so, during which I was concentrating on keeping it off. After a while, I stopped paying attention, and I added the weight, as so often happens.

The good: I lost weight really really quickly and efficiently.

The bad: My diet was sort of disgusting. I was in the UK and couldn't find any low-carb ingredients, so I just had to do what I could with a normal supermarket's variety. I ate untold numbers of eggs - breakfast was actually one of the tastiest meals (I usually ate eggs scrambled with chorizo), but it was very tiring to eat essentially the same thing every day. For dinner I would have a salad with a vinegarette (not bad at all), and something like chicken with a few spices thrown on it (bleh). It's a tough thing to do if you're not a very creative cook. Once I had tacos without the shells. And I definitely had sandwiches without the bread (meaning salami and cheese in my hand). The inability to eat rice and bread drove me pretty mad.

The ugly: Being in ketosis really does make your breath smell horrible. My girlfriend had trouble being within a foot of my head, and I had to consciously be sure not to breath in the direction of any strangers. Sort of a rotten egg smell. Yuck.

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And I definitely had sandwiches without the bread (meaning salami and cheese in my hand).  The inability to eat rice and bread drove me pretty mad.

Indeed...one can only roll so many ham & cheese doobies before it starts to get old. :biggrin:

But you can keep bread in your life on Atkins, just not at the beginning.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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I went up to RMCF and asked them for their nutritional information. It was about 10-13 carbs per piece of chocolate. I did notice later at the grocery store that atkins counts his brownies as 17 carbs, but to count only 9 due to the sugar alcohols (which, I see, has been covered pretty well above)...so there's probably fancy schmancy mathwork that could make those numbers smaller, but I'm not a math person.

Laxative effect -well, hey, given the commen problem with the low carb diet, maybe things will all balance out. :p

I did find some "dee-lite" sugarfree truffles at Cost Plus Imports that had less than 1 carb per serving, they tasted like chocolate flavored sawdust and were about 1$ per truffle. Ouch! The espresso flavor was the best out of all of them.

I'm going to dig back through the thread for already posted suggestions. Shame on me, but life without chocolate in some form or another is like chopping out half my tastebuds. Backup plan: every two weeks, go out into the wild and track down a chocolate torte in it's natural habitat. Stalk, pounce, devour. Ah, desserts as they were meant to be. Prey.

". . . if waters are still, then they can't run at all, deep or shallow."

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Fendel, I love you. Love. From the heart.

This is what I made today:

fb290459.jpg

(Yes, I know it's garnished with basil, but I've got no mint handy. And that's not powdered sugar, of course, it's Splenda. And making quenelles is a lot harder than people make it look.)

But it tastes like vanilla ice cream. It's creamy, and sweet, and vanilla-y. It's yummmmmy. And it's made with Splenda and Diabetisweet. And I really tried to taste some metallic or chemical aftertaste. Not there. A little alcohol aftertaste, but I think that's from cheap Safeway vanilla (all I had on hand). Tomorrow night I'm just going to serve it to people without telling them anything. That'll be the true test.

Here the recipe (basically one of Fendel's):

Mix four egg yolks with 3/8 cup Splenda and 3/8 cup Diabetisweet. Add 2 cups whipping cream and 3/4 cup half and half. 1 T glycerine (natural vegetable product). Pinch salt. 2T vanilla. Put it in the fridge at 9:30 a.m. Put it in the ice cream machine at 7:30 p.m.

I love you.

Edited by Stone (log)
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Here's the carb count, using numbers from Fendels' blog:

Splenda -- 9 g (24 gs/cup, 3/8 cup used)

Diabetisweet -- 0 g (Unless I misunderstood Fendel's site)

Cream -- 12 g

1/2-1/2 -- 7.5 g.

That's about 29 g for an entire batch (1 quart? How much does a delonghi hold?). I could easily have missed something big, of course.

Ben & Jerry's Vanilla seems to be about 17 gs for 1/2 cup.

Edited by Stone (log)
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Fendel, I love you.  Love.  From the heart.

~~ blush ~~ :biggrin:

Hey Stone, the ice cream looks fabulous! Let me know what your guests think.

I've been thinking about revising the recipe a little to reduce the vanilla, since 2 tablespoons is a lot. (The last batch I made with 2T had a distinctly brownish color and sticky quality to it, maybe from using the last dregs of some cheap supermarket vanilla.) I had fabulous results using a scant tablespoon of Penzey's double-strength vanilla--all the flavor with less of the alcohol taste. Man, do I sound like a Penzey's spokesperson these days. I just love their stuff.

As for the Diabetisweet... some people count polyol (sugar alcohol) carbs, some count them as 0.5g carb for each gram of polyols, some don't count them. I don't. They're not supposed to have an impact on your blood sugar. Best thing to do is probably to watch the scale and see whether they have an effect on you.

The recipe makes somewhere between a quart and a quart and a half, depending on how much air gets whipped into the mixture.

I find low-carb a lot more pleasant when I can have good ice cream. :smile:

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I, for one, really appreciate your comments...and you can regard them as 'successful' without having necessarily changed anyone's mind.  Through exchanges like this, we all move toward a more complete understanding of what choices are available for us.

=R=

= R =

Hey, thanks for your comment, I do appreciate it. I really like to think we're all friends here and act accordingly. So I guess you said it when you talked about how we can all learn from these exchanges and make informed choices as a result. Cool.

I guess, for me, I'd like to think my eating plan will help keep me well over time. Maybe it's really that there are two debates here- one is what "diet" (there's that nasty word again! :wink: )gives you quick weight loss, the other is what's healthy in the long run; I hope I'm doing something that's going to be healthy for the rest of my life. And I still would like to see those long-term studies I keep on harping about. What if any, are the effects of a low-carb "eating regimen" on the risk of stroke, cancer, heart disease and bone loss. This hasn't been tested yet.

Tonight I'll drink a toast to long lives for all of us...

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And I still would like to see those long-term studies I keep on harping about.  What if any, are the effects of a low-carb "eating regimen" on the risk of stroke, cancer, heart disease and bone loss.  This hasn't been tested yet.

Tonight  I'll drink a toast to long lives for all of us...

I couldn't agree more with you on that count. I look forward to seeing some long-term findings on the results of the 'low-carb' approach, as well others. As great as it is to expand the range of choices, it's also important to narrow it, especially when you have a collection of solid research to help make the decision.

And yes, I'll raise my glass with you...to the continued good health of all of us here :smile:

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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two things cause me some worries on adkins:

1. the aforementioned lack of clinical research on LONG TERM (two recently-published papers seemed to back up at least short-term claims) results of high-protein diets is a bit scary. i'm reasonably health-conscious, having been 'large' as a kid and adult. i now lift weigts 5 days/week, and am trying to build a bit more bulk in certain areas, so high protein intake is critical for me. but, i'm not sure it is for everyone......the proteins i take in are used in muscle growth. not sure what happens if they're simply not used. and, proteins ain't used for food in cells, at least from the reading i've done.

2. it's a DIET. until i decided i was tired of being looked on as 'fat', until i understood what that did to my self-esteem, and until i decided to change my patterns of behavior, i stayed 'fat'. period. i tried diets, i tried workouts, and each one was treated as something to do 'til i looked good.....and then the weight came right back on. if you want to be somebody else, as sister hazel's said, change your mind, and your behavior patterns will modify.

thanks for the great discussion.....this was an excellent thread to 'return' to.

matt

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm back on as of 3 days ago...so far, so good. Last night had brined, roasted chicken for dinner along with some steamed broccoli from our local farmers' market (dotted with some bits of semi-melted plugra :smile:).

Today for lunch, some dry-rub ribs (leftover from the weekend) and a small caesar salad.

Tonight, I'll probably go with some canned Italian tuna packed in Olive Oil and maybe a few pieces of Nueske Smoked Bacon.

The hardest part is the sweets (or lack thereof)...had an Atkins Advantage peanut butter bar last night for dessert. A relatively weak consolation prize for being good, to say the least.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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The hardest part is the sweets (or lack thereof)...had an Atkins Advantage peanut butter bar last night for dessert.

These AA bars suck. However, they do get me through the day. I usually have one for breaky and one at 4 for a snack. They're very filling, about the same calories as a snickers or other bar, and only 2-3 carbs. I make it up by asking for extra blue cheese sauce with my steak at lunch. (It was a funny conversation, "can I get a salad instead of the fries?" "Sure, and would you like the blue cheese sauce on the side?" "Oh no, pour it on. Pour some on the salad as well."

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"Sure, and would you like the blue cheese sauce on the side?"  "Oh no, pour it on.  Pour some on the salad as well."

:biggrin::laugh::biggrin:

Ham & cheese omelet with a side of bacon, hold the toast...I've seen it done.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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