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Fat Guy

Ice Cream vs. Gelato vs. Sorbet

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anybody have any thoughts as to where agar agar or other gelatin based products belong in this discussion?!

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Fom what I understand, the difference is in the way it is frozen. Gelato doesn't have air whipped into it like how ice cream makers make it. The machines are what makes it different

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anybody have any thoughts as to where agar agar or other gelatin based products belong in this discussion?!

Gelatin and glycerine are sometimes used in sugar-free and fat-free ice creams, to create the illusion of an ice-cream-like texture. But real ice cream shouldn't have that kind of gunk in it.


"I think it's a matter of principle that one should always try to avoid eating one's friends."--Doctor Dolittle

blog: The Institute for Impure Science

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So I'm getting into an ice cream/gelato/sorbet making mode, as I put away my bread baking for the summer.

I've got David's book as well as a number of other ice cream/gelato books (e.g. The Ice Cream Lover's Companion, by Diana Rosen; Gelato, by Elsa Petersen-Schepelern; The Ultimate Ice Cream Book, by Bruce Weinstein; assorted other booklets, recipes, etc.).

Yet I can't seem to come up with the perfect gelato recipe. Some books/recipes call for an all milk based custard; others for cream based custards or milk with half and half. What I'm really looking for is a gelato recipe that mimics some of the wonderful gelatos we've eaten both here (in NY) and in Italy. Anyone have that recipe that you're willing to share?


Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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Mitch,

Most Italian gelato is made with whole milk providing about 6% butterfat content. (In Northern Italy they may add some cream) Gelato is made with up to 10 egg yolks per quart of milk. Flavor is typically infused into the custard. The custard is churned slowly to make a highly dense product which is served at about 25 degrees.

Lemon Gelato

3 cups whole milk (organic is recommended)

Zest from 6 lemons

1/2 vanilla bean split and scraped

8 egg yolks (organic)

pinch salt

1. Heat milk to 170 degrees. Pour over zest and vanilla bean. Cool in an ice bath and infuse at least 8 hours in the refrigerator.

2. Strain into a saucepan, add half the sugar, and bring to 170 degrees.

3. Whisk the yolks with remaining sugar until color lightens.

4. Temper the yolks with the hot milk while whisking adding 1/2 cup at a time.

5. When all the milk has been added, cook over low-medium, stirring continuously for 5 minutes or so, until the mix is thick enough to coat the back of a spoon. It should approach 180 degrees. (185 degrees will change the flavor)

6. Stir in a pinch of salt and transfer the pan to an ice water bath. Cool, stirring occasionally till the custard reaches room temperature.

7. Strain into a bowl and cover. Refrigerate overnight.

8. Transfer to a hand crank ice cream machine and crank slowly. (An electric ice cream maker tends to churn excess air into the mix.) When finished place in freezer for two hours.

9. To serve, check temperature and transfer to refrigerator, if needed to bring the temperature up to 25 degrees. Serve in very cold glasses.

Have fun,

Tim

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I've made this chocolate gelato many times - it's incredibly rich and deep chocolatey. The first site I've posted also has other gelato recipes you might want to check out - the chocolate one is the second one down. The second site (Epicurious) includes ratings and reviews:

Chocolate Gelato Hotel Cipriani, Venice

http://www.virtualitalia.com/recipes/gelato.shtml

http://origin.www.epicurious.com/recipes/r...ews/views/14183


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

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The one hard thing when making Gelato is the texture...You can make the flavor very good but without the proper machine you can't make true gelato. Gelato's air content in much lower than ice creams so you need a different machine that usually costs A LOT more money...

Just my two cents...

If you ever really get into gelato making then try an Emery Thompson Machine.

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I have done a ton of research on gelato, because I'm opening a gelato shop in the near future. First off, the major difference is that true gelato does NOT use egg yolks. The reason why egg yolks are added to ice cream is due to it being cheaper than adding cream. The egg yolks are used to try to create the creaminess and the thickness of using real cream. True gelato uses only cream and milk, more milk than cream and sometimes not any cream. I have also seen gelato made with a water base (not sorbet), usually when making a fruit gelato. The reasoning behind using more milk instead of cream is that the cream coats the tongue and when the tongue is coated with cream, your taste buds are not as receptive to the flavors. Gelato is also served at a higher temperature than ice cream, same reason as the cream, so it doesn't mess with your taste buds. When eating ice cream at a low temperature, it freezes or numbs your taste buds. One other major difference is the overrun, meaning the amount of air whipped into the ice cream/gelato as it's being churned in the ice cream machine. Less air equals more intense flavors and a creamier texture. If you take a gallon of ice cream and let it sit on your counter until it melts completely, you will end up with half or even less of liquid. If you do the same with gelato, you will end up with far more liquid than you would with ice cream.

The above information has come from many different sources that are in the business and are very successful. Some of them are from Italy and some taught by Italian gelato makers. I would take recipes from books with a grain of salt, because they're usually geared to the average home cook and not the industry. There are some gelato makers that use egg, but I find that it's far less than makers using no egg.

As for a great machine, I would recommend either a Carpigiani (use only a "G" machine) or Technogel. Both of these machines turn out some of the best gelato I have had, texture wise. I'm probably going with a Technogel myself. Both of the companies sell their machines for about 20K +/- a few k depending on the size.


Edited by ChristopherMichael (log)

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Wow - thanks for all the information...quite obvious that there is not just one way to make gelato!

Does the whole milk available in Italy have more butterfat than what is available in the states?


Edited by weinoo (log)

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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Hi,

The Donvier ice cream maker is also very effective at making gelato. By turning the crank somewhat slower than normal you add very little air.

The Italian gelato recipes all seem to have egg yolks. Without the yolk, I can't imaging a smooth emulsification at 25 degrees.

edit: The following Italian website does identify cream based and egg based gelatos.

Artisan Italian Gelato Technique

Tim


Edited by tim (log)

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The reason why egg yolks are added to ice cream is due to it being cheaper than adding cream. The egg yolks are used to try to create the creaminess and the thickness of using real cream.

Egg yolks serve other purposes in ice cream as well. The lecithin acts an emusifier and a stabilizer. Stabilization isn't important in a tradtional gelateria where the ice cream is made and served the same day. But in an American style ice cream shop, ice cream is flash frozen right out of the machine (in a hardening cabinet) and then stored for up to many days in a regular freezer before being tempered to scooping temperture. Unstabilized ice cream will deflate if it isn't eaten immediately.

Egg yolk is the traditional stabilizer for french style (custard based) ice creams; philly style ice creams have less egg so they typically add bean and seaweed extracts (guar, carob bean, carageenan). In an effort to appear natural and home made, Haagen Dazs uses molecularly altered milk proteins for stabilization (so they don't have to list anything besides cream, milk, sugar, etc. on the ingredients ...)


Edited by paulraphael (log)

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In an effort to appear natural and home made, Haagen Dazs uses molecularly altered milk proteins for stabilization (so they don't have to list anything besides cream, milk, sugar, etc. on the ingredients ...)

Interesting - I didn't know that. I'm glad I make my own ice cream, with one occasional exception: Julie's Organic Blackberry.

By the way, how are your brownie testings/tastings coming along?


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

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Mitch,

Most Italian gelato is made with whole milk providing about 6% butterfat content.  (In Northern Italy they may add some cream)  Gelato is made with up to 10 egg yolks per quart of milk.  Flavor is typically infused into the custard.  The custard is churned slowly to make a highly dense product which is served at about 25 degrees.

Lemon Gelato

3 cups whole milk  (organic is recommended)

Zest from 6 lemons

1/2 vanilla bean split and scraped

8 egg yolks (organic)

pinch salt

1.  Heat milk to 170 degrees. Pour over zest and vanilla bean.  Cool in an ice bath and infuse at least 8 hours in the refrigerator.

2.  Strain into a saucepan, add half the sugar, and bring to 170 degrees.

3.  Whisk the yolks with remaining sugar until color lightens.

4.  Temper the yolks with the hot milk while whisking adding 1/2 cup at a time.

5. When all the milk has been added, cook over low-medium, stirring continuously for 5 minutes or so, until the mix is thick enough to coat the back of a spoon.  It should approach 180 degrees.  (185 degrees will change the flavor)

6.  Stir in a pinch of salt and transfer the pan to an ice water bath.  Cool, stirring occasionally till the custard reaches room temperature.

7.  Strain into a bowl and cover.  Refrigerate overnight.

8.  Transfer to a hand crank ice cream machine and crank slowly.  (An electric ice cream maker tends to churn excess air into the mix.)  When finished place in freezer for two hours.

9.  To serve, check temperature and transfer to refrigerator, if needed to bring the temperature up to 25 degrees.  Serve in very cold glasses.

Have fun,

Tim

Tim,

I think you left out the quantity for the sugar....Let me guess - 1 1/4 cup?

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Mitch,

Most Italian gelato is made with whole milk providing about 6% butterfat content.  (In Northern Italy they may add some cream)  Gelato is made with up to 10 egg yolks per quart of milk.  Flavor is typically infused into the custard.  The custard is churned slowly to make a highly dense product which is served at about 25 degrees.

Lemon Gelato

3 cups whole milk  (organic is recommended)

Zest from 6 lemons

1/2 vanilla bean split and scraped

8 egg yolks (organic)

pinch salt

1.  Heat milk to 170 degrees. Pour over zest and vanilla bean.  Cool in an ice bath and infuse at least 8 hours in the refrigerator.

2.  Strain into a saucepan, add half the sugar, and bring to 170 degrees.

3.  Whisk the yolks with remaining sugar until color lightens.

4.  Temper the yolks with the hot milk while whisking adding 1/2 cup at a time.

5. When all the milk has been added, cook over low-medium, stirring continuously for 5 minutes or so, until the mix is thick enough to coat the back of a spoon.  It should approach 180 degrees.  (185 degrees will change the flavor)

6.  Stir in a pinch of salt and transfer the pan to an ice water bath.  Cool, stirring occasionally till the custard reaches room temperature.

7.  Strain into a bowl and cover.  Refrigerate overnight.

8.  Transfer to a hand crank ice cream machine and crank slowly.  (An electric ice cream maker tends to churn excess air into the mix.)  When finished place in freezer for two hours.

9.  To serve, check temperature and transfer to refrigerator, if needed to bring the temperature up to 25 degrees.  Serve in very cold glasses.

Have fun,

Tim

Tim,

I think you left out the quantity for the sugar....Let me guess - 1 1/4 cup?

How embarrassing. It's 1 1/8 cups sugar.

Tim

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Interesting - I didn't know that. I'm glad I make my own ice cream, with one occasional exception: Julie's Organic Blackberry.

i actually first heard that from jerry (of ben and jerry's) when he visited the homemade ice cream shop i used to manage.

By the way, how are your brownie testings/tastings coming along?

i just finished version #7. as soon as the sugar buzz lets up i'll make the next one. this has taken more trial and error than i'd expected, but it's getting close!

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The reason why egg yolks are added to ice cream is due to it being cheaper than adding cream. The egg yolks are used to try to create the creaminess and the thickness of using real cream.

Egg yolks serve other purposes in ice cream as well. The lecithin acts an emusifier and a stabilizer. Stabilization isn't important in a tradtional gelateria where the ice cream is made and served the same day. But in an American style ice cream shop, ice cream is flash frozen right out of the machine (in a hardening cabinet) and then stored for up to many days in a regular freezer before being tempered to scooping temperture. Unstabilized ice cream will deflate if it isn't eaten immediately.

Egg yolk is the traditional stabilizer for french style (custard based) ice creams; philly style ice creams have less egg so they typically add bean and seaweed extracts (guar, carob bean, carageenan). In an effort to appear natural and home made, Haagen Dazs uses molecularly altered milk proteins for stabilization (so they don't have to list anything besides cream, milk, sugar, etc. on the ingredients ...)

I will agree with your statement about ice cream, you know what you're talking about or at least a whole hell of a lot more than me about ice cream. My focus was on gelato and I actually said ice cream in that sentence, my bad. You're correct, a traditional gelato shop does make their gelato every single day and has a very very short shelf life. To me, a gelato shop that uses stabilizers are not true gelato makers. I think of gelato as an artisan craft and something that is fresh and handmade without any "store" bought bases or stabilizers. I have eaten at a ton of gelato shops all over and I can always tell who makes it everyday and who doesn't. Anyway, you stated what I was saying about gelato, so I guess I'm done.

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One of the reasons most recipe books for homemade gelato include eggs is that the equipment is not optimal for making real gelato.

Ice cream/gelato is technology-driven in much the same way as espresso. You can't make espresso without an espresso machine, and you can't make gelato without proper gelato machinery. Similarly, just as the quality of espresso is largely dependent on the quality of the machine, so is gelato dependent on the quality of the machinery. Similarly again, there is a fairly steep entry price point for the machinery required to make acceptable espresso and gelato. And still similarly, in their home country, both of these products are largely a professional's game.

So... if you're going to be making and storing your "gelato" at home with technology in the sub-$1k price range, you're going to have to make nontraditional compromises and adjustments in order to approximate the real thing. paulraphael points out some storage temperature-based reasons for using egg yolks and other stabilizers. I'd also argue that, for the home enthusiast, egg yolks can be a way of getting something similar to the texture, density and mouthfeel of real gelato. If you can slow down the the speed of your home machine and raise the temperature a bit, that's probably a pretty good idea as well. I would also recommend eating it the same day it's made after only limited freezer hardening. A little booze might help in keeping a softer texture.


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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Hi,

As best I can determine, most Italian gelato includes a health dose of egg yolks. The only milk based gelato is made in Sicily and cream is added in Northern Italy.

Tim

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So... if you're going to be making and storing your "gelato" at home with technology in the sub-$1k price range, you're going to have to make nontraditional compromises ...

how was gelato made originally? is there an gelato equivalent to the hand-cranked ice cream maker, or is gelato a newer tradition that depends on high tech machines?

and going back to another thread, i'm wondering how you'd do making gelato with liquid nitrogen and a stand mixer. the question is how to control overrun and hardness independently.

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i'm wondering how you'd do making gelato with liquid nitrogen and a stand mixer.

I've actually seen this done and it works, which is pretty crazy.

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One of the reasons most recipe books for homemade gelato include eggs is that the equipment is not optimal for making real gelato.

Ice cream/gelato is technology-driven in much the same way as espresso.  You can't make espresso without an espresso machine, and you can't make gelato without proper gelato machinery.  Similarly, just as the quality of espresso is largely dependent on the quality of the machine, so is gelato dependent on the quality of the machinery.  Similarly again, there is a fairly steep entry price point for the machinery required to make acceptable espresso and gelato.  And still similarly, in their home country, both of these products are largely a professional's game.

So... if you're going to be making and storing your "gelato" at home with technology in the sub-$1k price range, you're going to have to make nontraditional compromises and adjustments in order to approximate the real thing.

Sam,

This makes the most sense to me - I use a Lello Gelato machine which probably ran in the neighborhood of $200. It does a real nice job with sorbets; gelato becomes a bit more problematic but ice cream's taste and texture are great. And storing the finished product in my home freezer at about 5 degrees F certainly isn't adding anything to the finished product!

If I was to buy one of the more expensive "pro" machines, I'd probably have to move out :laugh: ! So, it's decent, yet faux gelato and damn good sorbet and ice cream for us from now on!!


Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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I saw this recipe that doesn't call for egg yolks, it calls for cornstarch (recipe from epicurious 2003). The recipe calls for whole milk, sugar, 3T corn starch and chocolate to be mixed and brought to a boil, then cooled/chilled and placed in a ice cream maker.

What is everyone's opinion on this? The reviews seem decent. I will make it myself, but was wondering if anyone else has seen something similar. It seems like it would be ideal for those who need to watch fat & cholesterol intake.

EDITED to avoid posting violations...SORRY!


Edited by KrazedMom (log)

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If you're referring to this one (you're allowed to post links), it's good, but doesn't  really have the texture of gelato:

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/recipe_views/views/108521

Yes, that's the one. (and thanks for the info)

Not that I'm against the "good" stuff, it's just with 3 kids and a hubby who think nothing of scarfing rather than enjoying, I'd go broke just on ingredients, so I look for simple & less expensive. This recipe looked like a nice alternative to going through a dozen eggs for what would turn out to be 3 bowls of a dessert.

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