Understanding Callebaut chocolate

[Stuckey]

Hi guys,

I've been having a few problems with my chocolate-making endeavours lately. I've previously made dipped truffles with no problems, but now that I'm experimenting with molding, I just haven't been able to get it right!

I use Callebaut chocolate, in milk and semi-sweet (54%). I've got almost 10kg left of each. Today I attempted to temper some of the semi-sweet to line my polycarbonate molds (dome cavities) using the seeding method. I brought about 600g chocolate (in a metal bowl) up to 110F in a water bath, then added 100g of callets. Doing this and constantly stirring, the chocolate came down to about 95F, but then didn't seem to go any lower. I was impatient, so I added some more callets, but by the time the chocolate was 90F, there were still some unmelted bits. I decided to bring everything back up to 110F and try again. Going by Peter Greweling's advice to bring the temp down to working temp, but not go over 90F, I began testing for temper at 89F by dipping a spoon into the choc and putting it in the freezer for a few minutes. I checked the spoon after two minutes, and there weren't any streaks, so I figured my chocolate was in temper. After I lined the molds and let it set, it was obvious that my chocolate was not in temper, because it's streaky and it doesn't look like it's contracted away from the sides of the mold. This is my third unsuccessful attempt (I tried molding with milk choc twice before), and I'm going to have to discard this latest try by soaking it in hot water to clean out the chocolate.

Is it possible that my chocolate is thrown out of temper because I didn't warm up my molds first? I read in another thread that testing for temper in the fridge isn't a good indicator because the chocolate will harden whether or not it's in temper. I'll try smearing some on baking paper to see if it hardens at room temp. I'm finding that I'm becoming less excited about working with chocolate because I'm just intimidated by tempering! It's really frustrating me!

I've taken some photos of the usage guidelines on the side of the Callebaut packet. Can some kind soul please explain what they mean? What does the little dotted portion of the line in the crystallization curve mean?!

BTW, I use a Thermapen to test temps.

Thanks for any help or advice!

[Kerry Beal]

Hi guys,

I've been having a few problems with my chocolate-making endeavours lately. I've previously made dipped truffles with no problems, but now that I'm experimenting with molding, I just haven't been able to get it right!

I use Callebaut chocolate, in milk and semi-sweet (54%). I've got almost 10kg left of each. Today I attempted to temper some of the semi-sweet to line my polycarbonate molds (dome cavities) using the seeding method. I brought about 600g chocolate (in a metal bowl) up to 110F in a water bath, then added 100g of callets. Doing this and constantly stirring, the chocolate came down to about 95F, but then didn't seem to go any lower. I was impatient, so I added some more callets, but by the time the chocolate was 90F, there were still some unmelted bits. I decided to bring everything back up to 110F and try again. Going by Peter Greweling's advice to bring the temp down to working temp, but not go over 90F, I began testing for temper at 89F by dipping a spoon into the choc and putting it in the freezer for a few minutes. I checked the spoon after two minutes, and there weren't any streaks, so I figured my chocolate was in temper. After I lined the molds and let it set, it was obvious that my chocolate was not in temper, because it's streaky and it doesn't look like it's contracted away from the sides of the mold. This is my third unsuccessful attempt (I tried molding with milk choc twice before), and I'm going to have to discard this latest try by soaking it in hot water to clean out the chocolate.

Is it possible that my chocolate is thrown out of temper because I didn't warm up my molds first? I read in another thread that testing for temper in the fridge isn't a good indicator because the chocolate will harden whether or not it's in temper. I'll try smearing some on baking paper to see if it hardens at room temp. I'm finding that I'm becoming less excited about working with chocolate because I'm just intimidated by tempering! It's really frustrating me! 

I've taken some photos of the usage guidelines on the side of the Callebaut packet. Can some kind soul please explain what they mean? What does the little dotted portion of the line in the crystallization curve mean?!

BTW, I use a Thermapen to test temps.

Thanks for any help or advice!

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The little dotted line probably refers to how warm you can get the chocolate after it is 'overcrystallized'. So initially your working temperature is 31 C, but as the chocolate sits a while and crystals grow and the chocolate thickens (even at 31 C) you can push the temp up to 34.5 for dark and 32.5 for milk.

Try the seed method again. Add your first handful of callets, quick stir and leave for 10 minutes or so. If all melted, add a smaller handful, stir and leave again. Better to put lots of very small handfuls in so you don't have a lot of unmelted seed when you reach working temp. When you reach 89 or 90 (sorry have trouble thinking in F with chocolate) even if you have some unmelted lumps, give it a good stir, dip your little offset spatula in the chocolate and set it aside. Give it about 10 minutes to see if it sets up at room temperature. If it doesn't but you still have some little lumps give another thorough stir and test again. Remember time, temperature and agitation are required to spread and grow the crystals, so just because you have reached working temperature, you may not have a lot of crystals yet. Once you are in temper, either fish out the unmelted pieces, put them in another glass measure, remelt in the microwave, or lift them up on your spatula and heat them with your heat gun. Try not to heat the whole mass of chocolate, just melt the bits.

If you use a large chunk of tempered chocolate as seed and to bring down your temperature, then you can easily fish it out when you reach working temperature. If you have a successful batch, pour some in to a plastic container to cool, and use that as your seed.

Let us know how it goes. We can also try some other methods if you continue to have trouble with the seed method.

One last thing, can I see a picture of the front of the bag?

[David J.]

Hi Stuckey,

First, putting the setting chocolate in the freezer is guaranteed to throw it out of temper. It will cool too fast and unwanted crystal types will form so that when it is warmed back up it will loose any snap it had from being frozen. Allow your test to cool around 68 F until it looses its sheen before placing it in a slightly cooler environment if you are impatient.

You can hit your mold lightly with warm air, but be careful not to bring them up over 90F. I used a heat gun to do that and an infrared thermometer to verify I didn't get mine too hot. That's not required however, it just helps get that perfect shine.

If you are impatient stirring the callets try using an immersian blender. It will do the job very quickly.

Let your molds start to set at room temp. You can refrigerate them briefly after setting has begun, but not for long and stay out of the freezer!

David

[choux]

Although if your chocolate is truly stuck in the molds and won't release, putting them in the freezer (for an hour or so) will help the chocolate contract so as to avoid having to wash gloppy chocolate out of the molds. It takes forever and it sucks.

I find that tempering larger quantities of chocolate is always easier, it doesn't cool off as fast. 600g is not a lot, and it will cool quickly.

[tammylc]

I second David J's suggestion of using an immersion blender to take care of any unmelted callets.

Kerry - I thought that one needed to stir pretty much continuously after adding the seed, but I see you saying just to add the chocolate and wait? Can you talk a little bit more about that? My upper arm muscles would be ever so grateful... Also, can you comment on ideal temperature at which to add seed? I've been adding mine right away after reaching the top of the tempering curve, but in the Schotts book, he recommends waiting until the chocolate has cooled down to 110 before adding the seed.

Thanks!

[Kerry Beal]

I second David J's suggestion of using an immersion blender to take care of any unmelted callets.

Kerry - I thought that one needed to stir pretty much continuously after adding the seed, but I see you saying just to add the chocolate and wait?  Can you talk a little bit more about that?  My upper arm muscles would be ever so grateful...  Also, can you comment on ideal temperature at which to add seed?  I've been adding mine right away after reaching the top of the tempering curve, but in the Schotts book, he recommends waiting until the chocolate has cooled down to 110 before adding the seed.

Thanks!

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I'm basing my info on what JP Wybauw had to say, which was that you don't have to stir constantly. He suggested the throwing it in, stir a bit, leave it to cool down, stir it again when you come back to it. I don't think the temperature you start at matters at all, the crystals will just melt out if it's too hot, but adding it from the start cools down your chocolate more quickly.

[tammylc]

I'm basing my info on what JP Wybauw had to say, which was that you don't have to stir constantly.  He suggested the throwing it in, stir a bit, leave it to cool down, stir it again when you come back to it.  I don't think the temperature you start at matters at all, the crystals will just melt out if it's too hot, but adding it from the start cools down your chocolate more quickly.

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Fascinating. I will have to give this a try. It never ceases to amaze me how many different methods people use for tempering chocolate.

After all this puma bar craziness, I'm really wishing that my method was putting chocolate in a tempering machine and walking away. I am sooo tired of hand tempering. Here's hoping that the exposure I get from the puma event will help build my business to the point where I can justify/afford an X3210!

[Kerry Beal]

Speaking of a thousand different ways of tempering - what I tend to do now is put my large chunks in my pyrex measuring cup in the microwave, nuke for a minute, stir, nuke another 30 sec to 1 minute. When done I still have chunks of soft unmelted chocolate in the bowl. I stir a bit, let sit a bit, then when it's down to about the right temperature I test the temper with the chunks still in the bowl. If it's in temper, I take out the chunks, melt them and add them back in (carefully so not to go above the working temperature). Quick and dirty, chocolate never gets hot, really fast. It does tend to overcrystallize easily, but then I just add some untempered but not very hot melted chocolate to dilute the crystals.

Of course that's not the way I teach other people how to do it.

[Stuckey]

Thanks so much for everyone's help!!!

Kerry, obviously one of the mistakes I made was to be too impatient! What I will do from now on is use maybe 1kg of chocolate, and use the leftover chocolate to be tempered with new seed for the following time. Once I nail some tempered choc, I'll mold a large block for seeding purposes, since that sounds easier than using callets to seed.

Here in Australia, we never use Fahrenheit. The only reason I use it is because I have so many American cookbooks that I'm just used to it when used in a culinary context! When it's scorching hot in Summer, the temperature might be 38C outside, but I have no idea what that is in Fahrenheit. Conversely, I don't know what 90F is in Celsius! I know that 100C is 212F though

Do you know how long, say, 1kg of melted chocolate might stay at a good working temperature for, assuming ambient room temp is not too hot, not too cool? For example, if I get to a temp of 89F, and I leave it for 10 minutes, won't it cool to a less than optimal working temp by then? Or am I underestimating the thermal qualities of such a quantity of chocolate?

I would be happy to take a shot of the front of the bag for you. I hope you won't mind if I do that tomorrow. My camera's batteries need charging!

David, I'll be staying out of the freezer from now on! I was dipping a spoon into the choc, and then putting the spoon into the freezer to test the temper. Pretty silly now that I think about it. Of course it's gonna get hard in the freezer, whether it's tempered or not! I don't have a heat gun - I'll have to make do with a blowdryer for now! Cheers, mate!

choux, I will definitely try putting the molds in the freezer. I haven't cleaned them yet, because I've been lazy, so they're still lined with now-streaky untempered chocolate! What's the minimum amount of chocolate that you normally temper at one time?

tammy, thanks for asking questions that I wouldn't have thought to ask! I'm learning so much!

[alanamoana]

Stuckey, take a look at some of the other threads on working with chocolate on eG. They are a wealth of information and will help you out.

With regard to keeping chocolate at working temperature, you can purchase an inexpensive heating pad (like for back pain) that you can put into a bowl which is larger than the bowl that you have your tempered chocolate in. Then place your tempered chocolate bowl on top. Control the amount of heat with the heating pad controls or insulate with a folded towel. This helps if you're dipping or doing other things with your chocolate. You'll still get overcrystallization after a time, but it helps keep the chocolate in temper for longer periods of time.

I think Kerry wants a pic of the front of the bag because she wants to see what formulation of Callebaut you are using. Different viscosities can make it more or less difficult to temper and this is indicated by a picture of little drops on the front of the package along with the number formula which is unique to Callebaut.

Good luck and have some patience!

[ejw50]

The other thing is at what temperature are you letting it set? How is the ventilation?

[Lysbeth]

Stuckey, something I learned with Callebaut is that you really need to take the initial melting temp to 113 to 115F (45-45C). If you go lower. not enough of the "unstable" crystals will melt out and you won't have enough heat to melt enough of the "stable" crystals in the seed chocolate. Cocoa Barry is the same.

Also, If your room is very warm (say 82F or 28C) you will get streaks on your chocolate if you mold it because it takes too long to set. If you were to try and fix this by putting the molds in the fridge your chocolate will cool too quickly and go out of temper like David said. If you can work in a room that's about 72F (or 22C) that should work, so crank up your A/C!

[Kerry Beal]

Stuckey, something I learned with Callebaut is that you really need to take the initial melting temp to 113 to 115F (45-45C). If you go lower. not enough of the "unstable" crystals will melt out and you won't have enough heat to melt enough of the "stable" crystals in the seed chocolate. Cocoa Barry is the same.

Also, If your room is very warm (say 82F or 28C) you will get streaks on your chocolate if you mold it because it takes too long to set. If you were to try and fix this by putting the molds in the fridge your chocolate will cool too quickly and go out of temper like David said. If you can work in a room that's about 72F (or 22C) that should work, so crank up your A/C!

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I actually do put my molds in the fridge. Following what Wybauw suggests, I wait until I see signs that the chocolate is beginning to crystallize in the molds, then I put then in the fridge in a spot that has good (well the best my fridge has to offer) circulation for 10 minutes or so. I then take them out, fill, back off, repeat the fridge as before. When I can see that the chocolates are starting to separate from the mold (I just flip it over and look for the change you can see when that happens) I take them out of the fridge. Again usually 10 minutes or so. If I'm not seeing that separtation happening, I put them back in the fridge for a few minutes longer. I don't always knock the chocolates out of the mold right away. Sometimes I will actually leave them in the mold overnight or longer before removing them. If some are sticking, then it's back into the fridge for a while.

[tammylc]

I do my molds almost exactly the same way Kerry describes, and I've had great luck with it. I usually only chill them down for about 5 minutes the first time, and 15 the second. Now that I'm in a commercial kitchen, the fridge there has great circulation. And lots of room, which i love! I just put the filled molds on a cart then roll it into the walk-in.

[Stuckey]

Kerry, I hope these photos are what you're after!

alanamoana, I'll have to look for one of those heat pads. I'm sure they'll definitely come in handy! I know I'll just have to learn to be more patient!

ejw50, when I tried tempering earlier this week, the temp in my kitchen would've been around 20C (around 68F). Definitely not warm, and not cool either!

Lysbeth, I will certainly bring the melting temp up to 115 for my next attempt.

Thanks again for everyone's help! I'll have another go this weekend, and will utilise all the advice and suggestions offered here, and I'll report back! Cheers!

[Lysbeth]

Stuckey, something I learned with Callebaut is that you really need to take the initial melting temp to 113 to 115F (45-45C). If you go lower. not enough of the "unstable" crystals will melt out and you won't have enough heat to melt enough of the "stable" crystals in the seed chocolate. Cocoa Barry is the same.

Also, If your room is very warm (say 82F or 28C) you will get streaks on your chocolate if you mold it because it takes too long to set. If you were to try and fix this by putting the molds in the fridge your chocolate will cool too quickly and go out of temper like David said. If you can work in a room that's about 72F (or 22C) that should work, so crank up your A/C!

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I actually do put my molds in the fridge. Following what Wybauw suggests, I wait until I see signs that the chocolate is beginning to crystallize in the molds, then I put then in the fridge in a spot that has good (well the best my fridge has to offer) circulation for 10 minutes or so. I then take them out, fill, back off, repeat the fridge as before. When I can see that the chocolates are starting to separate from the mold (I just flip it over and look for the change you can see when that happens) I take them out of the fridge. Again usually 10 minutes or so. If I'm not seeing that separtation happening, I put them back in the fridge for a few minutes longer. I don't always knock the chocolates out of the mold right away. Sometimes I will actually leave them in the mold overnight or longer before removing them. If some are sticking, then it's back into the fridge for a while.

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You're right, I should have said "may go out of temper" , if you wait for the chocolate to start to crystallize you will be fine.

[Kerry Beal]

Kerry, I hope these photos are what you're after!

Yup, those pictures are great. That chocolate should work well for you for molding. What condition is the chocolate in, are the callets nice and shiny, or looking old and dusty at all?

[Stuckey]

Kerry, the callets are shiny and I'm pretty sure still all in temper! I keep them downstairs where it's nice and cool.

I'm not gonna have time to do any chocolates this weekend, but will make some time for next weekend!

[Stuckey]

I've been busy making truffles this weekend! I made raspberry dark chocolate truffles, hazelnut milk chocolate truffles, and orange dark chocolate truffles. I am much more confident with tempering chocolate now, especially with all the helpful advice from you friendly folks! I've realised that being a lot more patient with the chocolate cooling was the key to my tempering success! I've also learned that I prefer using a two-pronged dipping fork, rather than the spiral dipping fork, to dip my truffles because the truffles come away cleaner, it's easier to wipe off excess chocolate from the fork when it builds up, and the resulting truffles are smoother and more consistently attractive.

However, I did have a few hiccups. Many of the truffles developed cracks after they had set. I had formed all the ganache centres on Saturday, and left them out overnight to crust up, so I don't think that the temperature of the ganache was the cause. Perhaps the fact that the weather was quite cool was the reason? For some reason, the milk chocolate truffles didn't crack as much as the dark ones.

Another problem that I had was, despite leaving the dipped truffles to set for several hours after dipping, upon removing them from the baking paper-lined baking sheet, many of them also had little round "plugs" come off from the bottom. Besides being unsightly, I am concerned with how this affects their shelf life. Some of the truffles had a small amount of sticky liquid on the bottoms. Would the compromises in the shell of the truffles significantly shorten the life of the truffles? I know that water and air are enemies when it comes to keeping truffles, but would these imperfect truffles at least keep for a week at room temperature, or must I refrigerate them, or chuck them because they'll spoil very quickly? Please note that all the ganache was made with just chocolate and cream i.e. no butter or invert sugar etc.

Thanks for any help or advice!

[tammylc]

I have exactly the truffle problems you describe. Cracks and bottom leaks can be caused by the truffle center being too cold relative to the chocolate you are dipping in, so yes, if your room temperature was especially cold, that could be part of the problem. Softer ganache centers are more prone to leaking than stiffer ones. I also think that truffles are just prone to the bottom "plug" problem, because the entire weight of the truffle is on a small area, so it pushes down and thins out the chocolate in that area. If I make the same ganache formula and do it as a slab instead of balls, I almost never have those problems.

Also, chocolate that is at the top of it's working temperature will make a thinner shell, and that will be more prone to cracking. Did you find that ones you did later were less likely to crack, as the chocolate was cooling down? Another culprit can be the actual couverture - if it's a very fluid couverture, that contributes to the same thin shell problem.

I'm sure others will have some good troubleshooting tips.

As far as shelf life, ff you keep them in a cool place and a covered container, I think they'll be just fine for a week without refrigeration.

Congrats on the successes this time around!

[Kerry Beal]

I wonder too if the fork dipping is playing any part in the bottom problem? Are you sliding them off the fork onto the paper, or turning them over and releasing them. When you dip ganache that you have cut, you have the foot layer of chocolate that you have added which prevents the fork from digging in to the ganache. When you fork dip truffles the fork tines are going to dig in.

I suppose you could make a tiny round foot, place each truffle on it, then make sure the fork was positioned under it. Or you could hand roll to dip. It takes two rolls to coat the truffles, but I've had a lot less trouble with bottom sticking that way. The only time I seem to get the bottoms coming off is when I'm in too much of a hurry for the second roll and I pick them up before they have had a chance to completely dry.

Tammy's suggestion that this occurs more with softer truffles is very true. Increasing the amount of chocolate or adding a little cocoa butter will give you a firmer truffle that will be less likely to ooze, but then again, sometimes you are after the wonderfully soft truffle.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Kerry Beal (log)

[mrose]

I wonder too if the fork dipping is playing any part in the bottom problem?  Are you sliding them off the fork onto the paper, or turning them over and releasing them.  When you dip ganache that you have cut, you have the foot layer of chocolate that you have added which prevents the fork from digging in to the ganache.  When you fork dip truffles the fork tines are going to dig in.

I suppose you could make a tiny round foot, place each truffle on it, then make sure the fork was positioned under it.  Or you could hand roll to dip.  It takes two rolls to coat the truffles, but I've had a lot less trouble with bottom sticking that way.  The only time I seem to get the bottoms coming off is when I'm in too much of a hurry for the second roll and I pick them up before they have had a chance to completely dry. 

Tammy's suggestion that this occurs more with softer truffles is very true.  Increasing the amount of chocolate or adding a little cocoa butter will give you a firmer truffle that will be less likely to ooze, but then again, sometimes you are after the wonderfully soft truffle.

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The best solution I have found is too roll truffles in your hand with some chocolate to put a thin coat on them. Let this set. This will prevent abou 90% of the small plug problem. The softer the ganache will still cause some problems. This has the same effect as bottoming a slab of ganache or caramels.

A lot of the cracks come from the different in temp between the centers and the temepered chocolate. The closer they are in temperature, the fewer cracks.

Edited June 17, 2007 by mrose (log)

[sote23]

Kerry,

I do the same method. I add the seed and let it sit. It works very well.

Luis

[Stuckey]

Thanks so much to everyone for your help!

BTW, it's frickin' freezing in Sydney right now!!!

Tammy, I don't think that the earlier dipped truffles cracked more. A lot of them just seemed to crack regardless of which order they were dipped in. However, the milk chocolate coated truffles cracked a lot less than the dark chocolate coated. Perhaps that was because I had rolled the centres for those ones a day earlier....next time I'll have to try giving the centres at least one full day to sit out and crust up. I want to try doing molded chocolates this weekend, and the next time I do dipped chocolates, I'll try doing a ganache slab and cutting it into rectangles/squares.

Kerry, I used both a spiral dipping fork, and a two-pronged dipping fork. With the two-pronged fork, I release the truffle by turning the fork over, because I find that it releases a lot easier for me than getting them to slide off the fork. Of course, maybe that's because I don't have a very good dipping technique! I definitely want to give hand-rolling a go. I have rubber latex gloves that say they're powder-free and food-safe. They smell like balloons. I'm sure they're fine for cutting chillis, making sandwiches etc., but I'm a bit wary of using these with chocolates. Do you think they would be suitable?

Mark, I tried hand-rolling truffles ages ago, and thought it was too messy and too hard. Now that I've got more chocolate experience, I'll definitely give them another go!

Thanks again, everyone! Cheers!

[Kerry Beal]

Thanks so much to everyone for your help!

I definitely want to give hand-rolling a go. I have rubber latex gloves that say they're powder-free and food-safe. They smell like balloons. I'm sure they're fine for cutting chillis, making sandwiches etc., but I'm a bit wary of using these with chocolates. Do you think they would be suitable?

Mark, I tried hand-rolling truffles ages ago, and thought it was too messy and too hard. Now that I've got more chocolate experience, I'll definitely give them another go!

Thanks again, everyone! Cheers! 

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I prefer the nitrile gloves. I always worry about people with latex allergies.