United States Pastry Epicenter

[Gabe Q]

I've been getting very interested in pastry lately, even considering making a transition from savory cooking onto pastry for my future job. I've been a very big fan of all the modern pastry chefs like Albert Adria, Jordi Roca, Oriol Balaguer, and in the US guys like Sam Mason and Alex Stupak. I am mostly familiar with the NYC guys, worth mentioning also are Will from R4D and Jordan Kahn ex-Varietal.

So anyways you know what type of pastry I am talking about. I am sure there is a whole group of really talented pastry chefs all over the US though, that you hardly hear about doing some very innovative things. So I want to know is who else, not included in my lists, is worth mentioning as a future leader in the US modern pastry scene?????

[alanamoana]

eG member xdrixn is doing some fun stuff at Providence in Los Angeles...he fits the same profile as the others you've mentioned.

other than those guys though, there aren't many others (if any) that i can think of. i think it does tend to be geographical. because these pastry chefs are working where there are restaurants that can support their type of desserts (chicken or egg) they tend to be located in New York and Chicago. there really aren't a lot of restaurants doing that type of cuisine in other cities in the US. maybe Seattle will be the next hit but even San Francisco hasn't gotten bitten by the molecular gastronomy bug

[chefpeon]

Me.

As hard as I've worked this week, I deserve at least that.

No money, just fame please.

[sugarseattle]

It's so funny, and at the risk of opening a huge controversial can of worms, but I just got back from Paris, and visited all the major shops like Aoki, Herme, Lenotre, etc, and was extremely impressed by the imagination, albeit based in longstanding French tradition, of the patisseries I visited. However, when it came to taste, my favorite thing was a very very simple bag of cookies I got from Poilane called punitions, basically very simple simple simple sugar cookies. I was sad when I ate the last one.

I know there is a lot of technical innovation and a lot of excitement with this whole molecular gastronomy thing, and I must say as a former artist turned patissier, I really appreciate the idea of transforming the very nature of food, redefining it and bringing it to a whole 'nother level, but I also find that what I go back to, what I really like to eat for dessert my most favorite course, are the simple foods, like really good vanilla ice cream, or a nice square of very well refined chocolate. So if you're looking for the winners in pastry in the US, I would start with who's doing the classics the best, they're the ones to watch.

Take Elisabeth Prueitt at Tartine in SF for example, or the woman at Miette Cakes (also SF)...I'm sure there's more.

[paulraphael]

... So if you're looking for the winners in pastry in the US, I would start with who's doing the classics the best, they're the ones to watch.

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That pretty much echoes my feelings toward food in general. Look to the mad geniuses for inspiration, and to the refined basics for pure deliciousness.

I'm curious, how would characterize Herme's desserts (especially flavor-wise)?

[sugarseattle]

I don't want to stray too much from the original intention of the post, but to answer, one of Herme's desserts did hit my list of the top three pastries I enjoyed in Paris. It was a Pistachio Dacquoise (sp?) with this ultra-velvety pistachio creme topped with a pyramid of fresh strawberries and dusted with powdered sugar. Super simple, delicate, and fresh tasting.

I found the other two desserts I tasted either too sweet or not sweet enough, and his bavarois (I think that's what it was) was almost inedible because of the weird texture. His coffee was good, and being from Seattle, I hold coffee to a high standard of excellence

[gfron1]

I just finished reading the latest Pastry & Art and Design magazine which highlighted their top 10 pastry chefs in the US. While chefs are splattered about the country in the northwest, rocky mountains, etc., I couldn't help but notice the concentration of chefs in the Great Lakes region - 2 from Chicago and 1 from Grand Rapids(!). Vegas had its representation as you would expect. The specialities varied from chocolates to breads to traditional pastries.

I wonder if folks in Chicagoland realize what they have between their great restaurants and now their pastry excellence. Vanille Patisserie is just an outstanding shop that I view as a dream stage, and if I won the lottery I would probably head off to the French Pastry School.

The other issue that I noted was the oversight of a strong presence in NYC, LA, Atlanta or the major cities. Is the concentration a result of synergy in peers and learning opportunities, or just coincidence? What other communities have been overlooked?

[alanamoana]

to be honest rob, the representation found in PAD is probably based on magazine politics more than anything else. there are some discussions on eG from years ago about the magazine.

while i don't doubt Vanille Patisserie's greatness and i certainly agree with FPS being one of the top pastry-only schools in the nation the large percentage of hotel, country club, cake decorator and culinary school type pastry chefs represented by PAD (in the past as well as present) just shows a general ignorance of what is going on in restaurants around the country.

of the top ten pastry chefs listed in this current issue, only Gale Gand is a restaurant pastry chef (not affiliated with a hotel/casino). since she and her husband are running several outlets themselves, she is more of a corporate pastry chef after all.

sure, johnny iuzzini and some of the new york guys have made the PAD top ten in the past, but i think statistically, you'll see a completely different demographic of pastry chef represented in the magazine.

*this isn't to ignore the fact that some of the best restaurants in the US are now in the Chicago area. but i'm sure the magazine wants to give some representation to chefs who aren't living in SF or NYC.

[gfron1]

And I was surprised to see two Food Network "celebrities" listed. I remember that dialogue about the magazine sometime last year. I'm not really interested in Top 10 lists, but more, where is the greatness? Where is the ingenuity (I would not put Vanille Patisserie in this category)?

[bluechefk]

no one's mentioned will goldfarb yet!

[docsconz]

no one's mentioned will goldfarb yet!

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Actually Gabe did in his initial post. I'm not sure how he gets overlooked in discussions of great American pastry chefs, but eGullet Society Staff Emeritus Michael Laiskonis should be included in any list of such as well as another eGullet Society Staff Emeritus Steve Klc, who works with Jose Andres in DC.

Johnny Iuzzini and Pichet Ong in NYC and Sherry Yard of Spago in LA also do great work.

For classic French pastry, I highly doubt that there is anyone in the US doing it better than Michael London in Saratoga Springs, NY. Saveur agrees and this past March called him "America's greatest baker." I know that I haven't had better - anywhere. His apple tarts, cannelle, croissants and brittany's are sheer perfection.

[artisanbaker]

For classic French pastry, I highly doubt that there is anyone in the US doing it better than Michael London in Saratoga Springs, NY. Saveur agrees and this past March called him "America's greatest baker." I know that I haven't had better - anywhere. His apple tarts, cannelle, croissants and brittany's are sheer perfection.

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I saw that and regretfully have never been. Must be an honor. The pix looked great.

[Fat Guy]

My take on it is that New York is very much the North American pastry epicenter, for both classic and modern pastry. While there are great pastry chefs spread throughout North America, the sheer density of the pastry chef population in New York is incomparable. I can't think of another city where so many restaurants even have full-time pastry chefs, or where they get the level of respect they get here. William Grimes documented this phenomenon in a 1997 article titled "New York Pastries: They're Pure Theater." He wrote:

If Careme could roam New York today, platinum card in hand, he would see pastry as even he could not have imagined it, a branch not only of architecture, but of painting, theater and performance art as well.

And New York is more adventurous with desserts than with savory cuisine -- the techniques of molecular gastronomy have been employed by New York pastry chefs for about ten years. Indeed, some of the culinary avant garde has to do with the breaking down of the divisions between pastry and savory techniques and flavors. Also, New York is the gateway to France. Whether it's La Maison du Chocolat or the now-defunct Philippe Conticini experiment at Petrossian, whatever is coming out of France is most likely to hit the beach in New York.

[gfron1]

Being one who doesn't like Top 10 Lists...

Here is a compilation of mentions above of the best pastry chefs in America. Please feel free to add, update, correct or argue:

Sam Mason, WD~50, NY (Johnston & Wales (RI))

Alex Stupak, Alinea, Chicago (Culinary Institute of America)

Will Goldfarb Room 4 Dessert, NY

Jordan Kahn Varietal (Johnson and Wales, Charleston)

Adrian Vasquez, Providence, Los Angeles

Elisabeth Prueitt, Tartine Bakery, SF (Culinary Institute of America)

Dimitri & Keli Fayard, Vanille Patisserie, Chicago (Lycee Pardailhan & Culinary Institute of America)

Michael Laiskonis,Le Bernardin, NY

Johnny Iuzzini, Georges, NY (Culinary Institute of America)

Pichet Ong, Spice Market, Chinese 66, NY

Sherry Yard of Spago, LA (New York City Technical College and the Culinary Institute of America )

Michael London, Mrs. London's, NY

[alanamoana]

Sam Mason now has his own place "Tailor"

Pichet Ong also has his own place "P*ONG"

Jordan Kahn is in California now (?)

Alex Stupak is at "WD-50", replacing Sam Mason

Johnny Iuzzini is pastry chef at "Jean-Georges" and "Perry Street" (although he isn't the corporate pastry chef for Jean-Georges...unless that has changed in the last couple of years).

"Room-4-Dessert" has closed, but there's some discussion that Will Goldfarb is working on a new project already.

[gfron1]

I knew much of that info was outdated, but I was pulling from sites. I'll keep updating the list - thanks!

[docsconz]

Sam Mason now has his own place "Tailor"

Pichet Ong also has his own place "P*ONG"

Jordan Kahn is in California now (?)

Alex Stupak is at "WD-50", replacing Sam Mason

Johnny Iuzzini is pastry chef at "Jean-Georges" and "Perry Street" (although he isn't the corporate pastry chef for Jean-Georges...unless that has changed in the last couple of years).

"Room-4-Dessert" has closed, but there's some discussion that Will Goldfarb is working on a new project already.

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Will Goldfarb's new place, Picnick is apparently now open.

Some other pastry chefs certainly worthy of mention include Gale Gand at Tru in Chicago and eGullet Society member Nicole Kaplan of Del Posto though I have yet to have the pleasure of sampling her work.

[Fat Guy]

Most big food cities have a couple of big pastry-chef stars, however when you go down to the next level most cities have no pastry chefs worth talking about. Whereas, in New York City, that second level is populated by people like Bill Corbett of Anthos.

[BigboyDan]

The fact is that the best pastry people tend towards hotels/casinos, or large pastry outfits, because of scale. If I were a pastry demi-god, I would not work in a high-end restaurant that only offers six desert choices per evening to a hundred patrons. I would want work at the Winn...

Edited September 12, 2007 by BigboyDan (log)

[gfron1]

Interesting. I would want somewhere that I could be creative and quickly change products to keep from being bored out of my mind versus making a thousand of the same thing day after day. But, I think you hit the nail...money is not what motivates me.

[alanamoana]

The fact is that the best pastry people tend towards hotels/casinos, or large pastry outfits, because of scale. If I were a pastry demi-god, I would not work in a high-end restaurant that only offers six desert choices per evening to a hundred patrons. I would want work at the Winn...

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i think this is a chicken-or-the-egg argument. do pastry chefs go there because of the money or are they the only places that can pay the money because of volume?

i have to say that places like new york, chicago, san francisco and los angeles are big cities that can bankroll pastry chefs. that being said, the salaries are still paltry compared to exec chefs etc. and when you take into consideration the cost of living, it is still a struggle to make a living in a big city.

the pastry chefs who get recognized (by PAD, as I mentioned above before this thread was merged into an existing thread) happen to be ones who work in hotels and bakeries...i think this is an insider/political thing.

when it comes down to it, if you're a good pastry chef (like the ones listed), you'll do a great job at a good restaurant because it is what you love to do. the money will come eventually but i don't think that is a primary motivator. and i agree with rob, i would much rather work at a high-end restaurant where you can change those six desserts on a whim rather than having to mass produce the same thing over and over again. the pastry 'demi-gods' in las vegas are few and far between...the likelihood that they are at the ovens every day is very slim. they are lending their name just like most of the chefs who have a signature restaurant do.

[BigboyDan]

Well, again, we are talking about few in number - demi-gods pastry chefs that is. And savory demi-gods like Keller, Guy Savoy, Robuchon, Mina, etc. are flocking to Vegas, and elsewhere, for the money, and the exposure. Exposure of one product becomes really important at a certain time... no less for pastry.

But hey, I'm all for pastry demi-gods slaving away in a tiny kitchen in a mid-50's restaurant for little money... love the food.

Edited September 12, 2007 by BigboyDan (log)

[gfron1]

Updated based on previous comments and recent research. Please continue to add, edit.

Bill Corbett, Michael Mina, San Francisco *as of 8/07

Dimitri & Keli Fayard, Vanille Patisserie, Chicago (Lycee Pardailhan & Culinary Institute of America)

Gale Gand, Tru, Chicago (La Varenne)

Will Goldfarb, Picnick, NY

Johnny Iuzzini, Perry Street, NY (Culinary Institute of America)

Jordan Kahn (Johnson and Wales, Charleston)

Nicole Kaplan, Del Posto, NY

Thomas Keller French Laundry, CA

Michael Laiskonis,Le Bernardin, NY

Michael London, Mrs. London's, NY

Sam Mason, Tailor, NY (Johnston & Wales (RI))

Pichet Ong, P*ONG, NY

Elisabeth Prueitt, Tartine Bakery, SF (Culinary Institute of America)

Joel Robuchon, Joel Robuchon's Restaurants

Guy Savoy, Guy Savoy's Restaurants (Troisgos)

Alex Stupak, WD~50, Chicago (Culinary Institute of America)

Adrian Vasquez, Providence, Los Angeles

Sherry Yard, Spago, LA (New York City Technical College and the Culinary Institute of America )

[Fat Guy]

Rob, you might want to add Sébastien Rouxel of Per Se in New York; Chris Broberg of Cafe Gray in New York; Bill Yosses, formerly of various New York places, most notably Bouley, and now the White House pastry chef; Karen DeMasco of Craft and Craftbar, New York; Francois Payard of Payard Patisserie and Bistron, New York; Jacques Torres of Jacques Torres Chocolate, New York; and Florian Bellanger of Fauchon, New York. I think those all qualify as top-echelon names.

Also I would categorize Johnny Iuzzini primarily as the pastry chef of Jean Georges, though he is also technically the pastry chef at some other restaurants in that group. And I don't think Thomas Keller belongs on the list.

[Fat Guy]

I'm not as conversant with names outside New York, but as mentioned above I'd be sure to include my man Steve Klc in Washington, DC. I haven't tracked the title and naming conventions closely, but I believe his position is Pastry Director of the ThinkFood group, which is the business that operates all of the Jose Andres restaurants.