Union Square Greenmarket

[patrickamory]

Soba, thanks, that is really useful. I will take your advice and check out those vendors.

Just for the record, I'm not some anti-locavore person - I apologize if I came off that way. I'd like nothing better than to support local farmers, and I always do so when I can. The supermarket chicken I buy is Murray's, which is from a cooperative of upstate NY producers.

[SobaAddict70]

np, patrick. there ARE people though on this board who ARE anti-locavore. I'm just stating for the record that conversation is tired and kind of old hat.

FYI, those vendors are around on Saturday and presumably other days during the week. I don't have much experience on a weekday, although Madura is great for mushrooms.

[Mjx]

I prefer buying from USGM (and other farmers' markets within the grownyc system, if I'm able to get to them), because of the relationships you develop by seeing a vendor once or twice a week. Also, USGM is convenient to me, whereas Chelsea Market is farther west and would require a major schlep.

Not to mention, Chelsea Market isn't a farmer's market, unless things have changed radically in the past few months.

No, but when I first asked about USFM versus, "say, Chelsea Market" I was thinking of the local stuff that one might find in both, as I explained in a subsequent post. Besides, shopping indoors in winter is more pleasant than shlepping through snow or freezing your butt off (and hands and fingers) outdoors in inclement weather, no? :-)

Sure it's indoors, but despite the name, Chelsea Market is not even remotely like a farmer's market. There's just one shop that sells produce, and although I've been there a couple of times since they first opened, I never found anything particularly enticing, and definitely no more local stuff than you'd find in any decent supermarket. Basically, Chelsea Market is an upscale food mall, with a focus on prepared foods, especially baked goods, and it also has a book shop, a cookware shop, an Anthropologie, another clothing shop, and a wine shop. It tends to be packed with tourists, and priced accordingly. If you just want to avoid lousy weather while you pick out fruit and veg, you could just go to your local supermarket, and have even less of a schlep.

[huiray]

I prefer buying from USGM (and other farmers' markets within the grownyc system, if I'm able to get to them), because of the relationships you develop by seeing a vendor once or twice a week. Also, USGM is convenient to me, whereas Chelsea Market is farther west and would require a major schlep.

Not to mention, Chelsea Market isn't a farmer's market, unless things have changed radically in the past few months.

No, but when I first asked about USFM versus, "say, Chelsea Market" I was thinking of the local stuff that one might find in both, as I explained in a subsequent post. Besides, shopping indoors in winter is more pleasant than shlepping through snow or freezing your butt off (and hands and fingers) outdoors in inclement weather, no? :-)

Sure it's indoors, but despite the name, Chelsea Market is not even remotely like a farmer's market. There's just one shop that sells produce, and although I've been there a couple of times since they first opened, I never found anything particularly enticing, and definitely no more local stuff than you'd find in any decent supermarket. Basically, Chelsea Market is an upscale food mall, with a focus on prepared foods, especially baked goods, and it also has a book shop, a cookware shop, an Anthropologie, another clothing shop, and a wine shop. It tends to be packed with tourists, and priced accordingly. If you just want to avoid lousy weather while you pick out fruit and veg, you could just go to your local supermarket, and have even less of a schlep.

Uhh...I used Chelsea Market simply as an example (albeit a famous one) of an indoor market. Fine - so you regard the place with curled lip - are there indoor Farmer's Markets or similar produce markets other than supermarkets (which you seem to dislike too) that you know of and can suggest/recommend for general info?

BTW, I go to my local supermarkets or normal groceries (and especially my local Chinese grocery) more than to Farmer's Markets around here especially in winter, when I find local produce to be inferior. An exception would be fat-stemmed, squat, sweet winter spinach, when I can find it. Not the skinny etiolated ones. Oh, it always helps to have a fat wallet too, whether in winter or summer, at a Farmer's Market...and you also need to fight for parking space with BMWs and Lexus's (neither of which I drive) and other such chariots, and dodge big dogs (or avoid stepping on toy dogs) (in summer) that are clearly pampered and probably eat more and better than a working-class family. :-)

[Mjx]

Sure it's indoors, but despite the name, Chelsea Market is not even remotely like a farmer's market. There's just one shop that sells produce, and although I've been there a couple of times since they first opened, I never found anything particularly enticing, and definitely no more local stuff than you'd find in any decent supermarket. Basically, Chelsea Market is an upscale food mall, with a focus on prepared foods, especially baked goods, and it also has a book shop, a cookware shop, an Anthropologie, another clothing shop, and a wine shop. It tends to be packed with tourists, and priced accordingly. If you just want to avoid lousy weather while you pick out fruit and veg, you could just go to your local supermarket, and have even less of a schlep.

Uhh...I used Chelsea Market simply as an example (albeit a famous one) of an indoor market. Fine - so you regard the place with curled lip - are there indoor Farmer's Markets or similar produce markets other than supermarkets (which you seem to dislike too) that you know of and can suggest/recommend for general info?

BTW, I go to my local supermarkets or normal groceries (and especially my local Chinese grocery) more than to Farmer's Markets around here especially in winter, when I find local produce to be inferior. An exception would be fat-stemmed, squat, sweet winter spinach, when I can find it. Not the skinny etiolated ones. Oh, it always helps to have a fat wallet too, whether in winter or summer, at a Farmer's Market...and you also need to fight for parking space with BMWs and Lexus's (neither of which I drive) and other such chariots, and dodge big dogs (or avoid stepping on toy dogs) (in summer) that are clearly pampered and probably eat more and better than a working-class family. :-)

I'll try this one more time, then I'm done with this.

There's the Union Square Greenmarket: at its finest, it is packed with vendors selling an excellent array of produce and animal products, many of them locally/sustainably grown. There are vendors who sell things other than produce, but the produce and animal goods (ostrich jerky!) are the big draw for most people who shop here.

I haven't come across an indoor market in NYC that is roughly equivalent to the USG, but there must be one; Chelsea Market is not it, and the 'market' in its name is just a nomenclature choice. I don't regard it (or supermarkets, which I actually enjoy, because: no tourists!) with a curled lip, but I do find the tourists entertaining to watch (I don't tease or feed them, either here or at the USG).

Speaking of pictures and green markets, one of the best shopping/photo ops in NYC happens if you hit the USG just after sunrise, with the light slanting low over the freshly unpacked goods. Union Square is relatively empty, things are still and glowing, and the vendors are not yet worn out from standing around all day. Beautiful.

[huiray]

Sure it's indoors, but despite the name, Chelsea Market is not even remotely like a farmer's market. There's just one shop that sells produce, and although I've been there a couple of times since they first opened, I never found anything particularly enticing, and definitely no more local stuff than you'd find in any decent supermarket. Basically, Chelsea Market is an upscale food mall, with a focus on prepared foods, especially baked goods, and it also has a book shop, a cookware shop, an Anthropologie, another clothing shop, and a wine shop. It tends to be packed with tourists, and priced accordingly. If you just want to avoid lousy weather while you pick out fruit and veg, you could just go to your local supermarket, and have even less of a schlep.

Uhh...I used Chelsea Market simply as an example (albeit a famous one) of an indoor market. Fine - so you regard the place with curled lip - are there indoor Farmer's Markets or similar produce markets other than supermarkets (which you seem to dislike too) that you know of and can suggest/recommend for general info?

BTW, I go to my local supermarkets or normal groceries (and especially my local Chinese grocery) more than to Farmer's Markets around here especially in winter, when I find local produce to be inferior. An exception would be fat-stemmed, squat, sweet winter spinach, when I can find it. Not the skinny etiolated ones. Oh, it always helps to have a fat wallet too, whether in winter or summer, at a Farmer's Market...and you also need to fight for parking space with BMWs and Lexus's (neither of which I drive) and other such chariots, and dodge big dogs (or avoid stepping on toy dogs) (in summer) that are clearly pampered and probably eat more and better than a working-class family. :-)

I'll try this one more time, then I'm done with this.

There's the Union Square Greenmarket: at its finest, it is packed with vendors selling an excellent array of produce and animal products, many of them locally/sustainably grown. There are vendors who sell things other than produce, but the produce and animal goods (ostrich jerky!) are the big draw for most people who shop here.

I haven't come across an indoor market in NYC that is roughly equivalent to the USG, but there must be one; Chelsea Market is not it, and the 'market' in its name is just a nomenclature choice. I don't regard it (or supermarkets, which I actually enjoy, because: no tourists!) with a curled lip, but I do find the tourists entertaining to watch (I don't tease or feed them, either here or at the USG).

Speaking of pictures and green markets, one of the best shopping/photo ops in NYC happens if you hit the USG just after sunrise, with the light slanting low over the freshly unpacked goods. Union Square is relatively empty, things are still and glowing, and the vendors are not yet worn out from standing around all day. Beautiful.

Thank you.

We appear to be talking past each other. I'll try this once more too - I understand that USG/USFM is chock full of vendors selling wonderful local produce etc especially "at its finest", as you say. What I was asking about was indoor markets - or indoor spaces, protected areas with a roof and heat where vendors sell stuff, if you will, other than USFM/USG in winter that also sold local produce. Note I used the simple phrase "indoor market" when I referred to Chelsea Market in my last post although I then did use the phrase "Farmer's Markets" when I asked about other places [obviously other than CM or USG]. I was not fixating on Chelsea Market as the epitome of such a place nor did I call it a FARMERS' market. I simply called that place by its given name.

Anyway, you have answered my question from your perspective and I thank you for that.

Yes, I've been at Union Square at dawn (or at sunset) several times before although not on Market days. It can be nice depending on the day.

ETA: Actually, I've been there at USG on Market days too, on reflection, but I was almost always driving through en route to another place like Stuy Town or other places and had no inclination to stop & browse. I think I did stroll through USFM once when showing a friend around NYC but that was years ago. I don't remember being bowled over at that time on that occasion.

Edited March 24, 2013 by huiray (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Sure it's indoors, but despite the name, Chelsea Market is not even remotely like a farmer's market. There's just one shop that sells produce, and although I've been there a couple of times since they first opened, I never found anything particularly enticing, and definitely no more local stuff than you'd find in any decent supermarket. Basically, Chelsea Market is an upscale food mall, with a focus on prepared foods, especially baked goods, and it also has a book shop, a cookware shop, an Anthropologie, another clothing shop, and a wine shop. It tends to be packed with tourists, and priced accordingly. If you just want to avoid lousy weather while you pick out fruit and veg, you could just go to your local supermarket, and have even less of a schlep.

Uhh...I used Chelsea Market simply as an example (albeit a famous one) of an indoor market. Fine - so you regard the place with curled lip - are there indoor Farmer's Markets or similar produce markets other than supermarkets (which you seem to dislike too) that you know of and can suggest/recommend for general info?

BTW, I go to my local supermarkets or normal groceries (and especially my local Chinese grocery) more than to Farmer's Markets around here especially in winter, when I find local produce to be inferior. An exception would be fat-stemmed, squat, sweet winter spinach, when I can find it. Not the skinny etiolated ones. Oh, it always helps to have a fat wallet too, whether in winter or summer, at a Farmer's Market...and you also need to fight for parking space with BMWs and Lexus's (neither of which I drive) and other such chariots, and dodge big dogs (or avoid stepping on toy dogs) (in summer) that are clearly pampered and probably eat more and better than a working-class family. :-)

I'll try this one more time, then I'm done with this.

There's the Union Square Greenmarket: at its finest, it is packed with vendors selling an excellent array of produce and animal products, many of them locally/sustainably grown. There are vendors who sell things other than produce, but the produce and animal goods (ostrich jerky!) are the big draw for most people who shop here.

I haven't come across an indoor market in NYC that is roughly equivalent to the USG, but there must be one; Chelsea Market is not it, and the 'market' in its name is just a nomenclature choice. I don't regard it (or supermarkets, which I actually enjoy, because: no tourists!) with a curled lip, but I do find the tourists entertaining to watch (I don't tease or feed them, either here or at the USG).

Speaking of pictures and green markets, one of the best shopping/photo ops in NYC happens if you hit the USG just after sunrise, with the light slanting low over the freshly unpacked goods. Union Square is relatively empty, things are still and glowing, and the vendors are not yet worn out from standing around all day. Beautiful.

Thank you.

We appear to be talking past each other. I'll try this once more too - I understand that USG/USFM is chock full of vendors selling wonderful local produce etc especially "at its finest", as you say. What I was asking about was indoor markets - or indoor spaces, protected areas with a roof and heat where vendors sell stuff, if you will, other than USFM/USG in winter that also sold local produce. Note I used the simple phrase "indoor market" when I referred to Chelsea Market in my last post although I then did use the phrase "Farmer's Markets" when I asked about other places [obviously other than CM or USG]. I was not fixating on Chelsea Market as the epitome of such a place nor did I call it a FARMERS' market. I simply called that place by its given name.

Anyway, you have answered my question from your perspective and I thank you for that.

Yes, I've been at Union Square at dawn (or at sunset) several times before although not on Market days. It can be nice depending on the day.

ETA: Actually, I've been there at USG on Market days too, on reflection, but I was almost always driving through en route to another place like Stuy Town or other places and had no inclination to stop & browse. I think I did stroll through USFM once when showing a friend around NYC but that was years ago. I don't remember being bowled over at that time on that occasion.

there are plenty of indoor spaces that sell foodstuffs in NYC, but none that to my knowledge are indoor farmers' markets open in the same fashion as any of the grownyc markets.

the grownyc markets have specific rules about what can and cannot be sold there. a space like Citarella (which is really an upscale gourmet food emporium, so you have $15 for a 34 oz. bottle of extra-virgin olive oil as opposed to a similar sized bottle that sells for $7-9 at my local corner grocery store, if on sale) or Fairway (a glorified supermarket known for stocking anything imaginable) tends to have food from all over, like seafood from China or the Philippines. there is the Hunts Point Produce Market in the Bronx, but that's not a place that's generally open to the public, and in any event, what they sell is maybe less than 5% local food.

someone suggested Whole Foods upthread -- they might be a source; however I will never step into one for reasons that have nothing to do with food.

[huiray]

there are plenty of indoor spaces that sell foodstuffs in NYC, but none that to my knowledge are indoor farmers' markets open in the same fashion as any of the grownyc markets.

the grownyc markets have specific rules about what can and cannot be sold there. a space like Citarella (which is really an upscale gourmet food emporium, so you have $15 for a 34 oz. bottle of extra-virgin olive oil as opposed to a similar sized bottle that sells for $7-9 at my local corner grocery store, if on sale) or Fairway (a glorified supermarket known for stocking anything imaginable) tends to have food from all over, like seafood from China or the Philippines. there is the Hunts Point Produce Market in the Bronx, but that's not a place that's generally open to the public, and in any event, what they sell is maybe less than 5% local food.

someone suggested Whole Foods upthread -- they might be a source; however I will never step into one for reasons that have nothing to do with food.

Thanks, that's useful general info.

In Indy the Farmers' Markets are indoors. The Indy Winter Farmers' Market is currently located in the west wing of the City Market (both east and west wings are large enclosed spaces)(The IWFM previously wandered around a few spaces, all indoors, before settling into City Market) while Traders Point Winter Greenmarket is held in an enclosed barn (heated) on the premises of a local creamery. There are other Greenmarkets/Farmers' Markets in the mid-west which are indoors. The winter Farmers' Markets (plural) in Chicago are indoors. All these markets are NOT supermarkets or groceries, they are actual Farmers' markets with vendors selling local produce and other vendors selling prepared foodstuffs or artisanal products.

Edited March 25, 2013 by huiray (log)

[SobaAddict70]

in NYC, space is at a premium, so all of the grownyc markets are outdoors in public spaces such as parkland or a public plaza (like for example, the one at Rockefeller Center which is only open during the summer months), or in front of City Hall (which is open nearly all year-round, just not on as many days as USGM).

if a farmer's market were located INDOORS in NYC, it would have to be in a building that's zoned for either commercial use or mixed-usage. I don't see that happening anytime soon, primarily because of rental costs. such buildings are currently located in fairly high rent areas, whereas being outdoors reduces that cost significantly. when you have businesses that are, for the most part, on very thin profit margins -- some farms are just recovering from Hurricane Sandy, while others were wiped out by the double whammy of Irene and Sandy -- an indoor grownyc farmer's market is out of the question. that doesn't mean there aren't indoor farmer's markets in NYC; it's just that I don't know of any personally.

Edited March 25, 2013 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[huiray]

That makes sense. I note that GrowNYC does have vendor stalls in the Port Authority terminal and the Staten Island Ferry terminal...but of course these are with just one or two vendors at those locations.

Maybe in Brooklyn or Queens? Or Staten Island?

Hmm, I just noticed I said "In Indy the Farmers' Markets are indoors." in my previous post. I meant winter Farmers' Markets, of course. In spring/summer/fall they are all outdoors.

Edited March 25, 2013 by huiray (log)

[SobaAddict70]

That makes sense. I note that GrowNYC does have vendor stalls in the Port Authority terminal and the Staten Island Ferry terminal...but of course these are with just one or two vendors at those locations.

Maybe in Brooklyn or Queens? Or Staten Island?

Hmm, I just noticed I said "In Indy the Farmers' Markets are indoors." in my previous post. I meant winter Farmers' Markets, of course. In spring/summer/fall they are all outdoors.

yes, but my point is that those two locations that you note are located on City-owned or state-owned property, so the cost to set up shop there is less than what it would be if a farmer's market were in a building owned by a private entity.

the SI Ferry Terminal is owned by the NYC DOT (Department of Transportation). the Port Authority is a state entity, operated jointly between the states of New York and New Jersey.

edited to add that GrowNYC is a not-for-profit corporation, therefore their operating costs must certainly be quite small for them to remain solvent. rental and leasing costs are a significant expenditure -- so any farmer's market in an indoor space under the auspices of their program will very likely be located within a City- or state-owned location.

this link provides more information, including the tidbit that the Council on the Environment of New York City, GrowNYC's predecessor, was a non-profit corporation under mayoral control: http://www.newvillage.net/Journal/Issue2/2greenmarket.html

Edited March 25, 2013 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[huiray]

That makes sense. I note that GrowNYC does have vendor stalls in the Port Authority terminal and the Staten Island Ferry terminal...but of course these are with just one or two vendors at those locations.

Maybe in Brooklyn or Queens? Or Staten Island?

Hmm, I just noticed I said "In Indy the Farmers' Markets are indoors." in my previous post. I meant winter Farmers' Markets, of course. In spring/summer/fall they are all outdoors.

yes, but my point is that those two locations that you note are located on City-owned or state-owned property, so the cost to set up shop there is less than what it would be if a farmer's market were in a building owned by a private entity.

the SI Ferry Terminal is owned by the NYC DOT (Department of Transportation). the Port Authority is a state entity, operated jointly between the states of New York and New Jersey.

edited to add that GrowNYC is a not-for-profit corporation, therefore their operating costs must certainly be quite small for them to remain solvent. rental and leasing costs are a significant expenditure -- so any farmer's market in an indoor space under the auspices of their program will very likely be located within a City- or state-owned location.

this link provides more information, including the tidbit that the Council on the Environment of New York City, GrowNYC's predecessor, was a non-profit corporation under mayoral control: http://www.newvillage.net/Journal/Issue2/2greenmarket.html

Yes thanks, I'm aware of the ownership and background of the PA and the SI Ferry Terminal. :-) I wonder why there aren't more opportunities to make use of City- or State-owned properties, so to say.

(I also used to pass through the PA on a not infrequent basis back in the day, and I've used the SI Ferry Terminal at other times with my car)

Edited March 25, 2013 by huiray (log)

[SobaAddict70]

That makes sense. I note that GrowNYC does have vendor stalls in the Port Authority terminal and the Staten Island Ferry terminal...but of course these are with just one or two vendors at those locations.

Maybe in Brooklyn or Queens? Or Staten Island?

Hmm, I just noticed I said "In Indy the Farmers' Markets are indoors." in my previous post. I meant winter Farmers' Markets, of course. In spring/summer/fall they are all outdoors.

yes, but my point is that those two locations that you note are located on City-owned or state-owned property, so the cost to set up shop there is less than what it would be if a farmer's market were in a building owned by a private entity.

the SI Ferry Terminal is owned by the NYC DOT (Department of Transportation). the Port Authority is a state entity, operated jointly between the states of New York and New Jersey.

edited to add that GrowNYC is a not-for-profit corporation, therefore their operating costs must certainly be quite small for them to remain solvent. rental and leasing costs are a significant expenditure -- so any farmer's market in an indoor space under the auspices of their program will very likely be located within a City- or state-owned location.

this link provides more information, including the tidbit that the Council on the Environment of New York City, GrowNYC's predecessor, was a non-profit corporation under mayoral control: http://www.newvillage.net/Journal/Issue2/2greenmarket.html

Yes thanks, I'm aware of the ownership and background of the PA and the SI Ferry Terminal. :-) I wonder why there aren't more opportunities to make use of City- or State-owned properties, so to say.

(I also used to pass through the PA on a not infrequent basis back in the day, and I've used the SI Ferry Terminal at other times with my car)

more opportunities by whom? GrowNYC seems to do an excellent job of accomplishing its mission.

re ownership -- we don't know each other, so I'm not going to automatically assume you know the ins- and outs- of things in the City. was just providing extra information in the event you didn't.

[SobaAddict70]

Market basket for this week -- ramps, flounder roe, cod, baby beets, French breakfast radishes, chickweed, cabbage flower, eggs, French bread, freshly dug carrots, Red Russian kale, chives

[SobaAddict70]

spring is in full swing here in nyc. not bad for a day that began in the upper 40s and ended in the upper 60s.

this week: claytonia (you know it better as winter purslane or "miner's lettuce"), scallions, mussels, yu choi flowers, ramps, fava greens, unsalted butter, pinto beans and various herbs. i'm sure i'm forgetting one or two things...

[weinoo]

I've noticed so many more places with eggs this year.

[SobaAddict70]

I've noticed so many more places with eggs this year.

really? my usual are Quattro's, Violet Hill and Knoll Krest. which others? maybe they're expanding into other lines of production, which could be a good thing.

[weinoo]

I've noticed so many more places with eggs this year.

really? my usual are Quattro's, Violet Hill and Knoll Krest. which others? maybe they're expanding into other lines of production, which could be a good thing.

I ddin't really notice the names of the stands, but it seems as if there are a lot more vendors with eggs now.

The market is really starting to explode. Lots and lots of greens, fiddles, ramps, young garlic, young onions, good seafood today - I just had some scallops for lunch that were delicious.

[SobaAddict70]

surprised to see ramps still available, so I bought a bunch.

as for this week -- spinach, baby mesclun, crinkly watercress, eggs, ricotta cheese, squid, carrots, heirloom potatoes, Japanese turnips, asparagus, and green leaf lettuce.

pretty sure I missed a couple things...oh well.

[patrickamory]

Darn! I meant to go today to get ingredients for your spring soup recipe Soba. Instead I woke up at 12:30 and still haven't left the house

[dcarch]

I was there on Wednesday.

Nothing too exciting. I was hoping to see morel mushrooms.

dcarch

[SobaAddict70]

Darn! I meant to go today to get ingredients for your spring soup recipe Soba. Instead I woke up at 12:30 and still haven't left the house

well I got there at 1:30. and of course, it started to rain shortly after I arrived. lol.

[SobaAddict70]

I was there on Wednesday.

Nothing too exciting. I was hoping to see morel mushrooms.

dcarch

I think Madura's has those, but they're usually around Fridays. one of these days, maybe...

[SobaAddict70]

today: littleneck clams, salad greens, Jerusalem artichokes, bread, eggs.

[SobaAddict70]

we're going to have warmer weather, I know it. hopefully...



today: cod, mussels, mint, potatoes, salsify, shallots, baby spinach, pea shoots, milk, carrots