Lodge Signature Series

[JasonZ]

I have a pretty good collection of Lodge cast iron for home -- been buying the pre-seasoned, since it makes for a great base to continue seasoning ... and for friends who will never season their own pans ... and also got a mini-set with Dutch ovens for campfire cooking, including the lid lifters and covers for storage/carrying. Great value for money ... and great biceps/triceps development tools!!

[Fat Guy]

By the way, to get back somewhat to the Lodge Signature Series, my suggestion for anybody who wants the properties of cast-iron but with a long and relatively stay-cool handle is to buy a black steel skillet. These are priced similarly to cast iron skillets, and are widely used in restaurants. In my copious spare time, I might pick up a two-pack of these and post about my experience.

[divalasvegas]

I love using cast iron for all the well-known reasons. However, the one thing I wonder is why Lodge or some other company hasn't tried to develop a line of cast iron products that weigh less but still produce the same results. It would be great to see Lodge try to do this since they could keep marketing to the $100 a pan Williams-Sonoma crowd and offer something new to their "old school" customers as well. I seem to remember hearing about a company that claimed their cast iron was lighter but can't recall the name. Could the same cooking results be realized with less hefty cast iron?

[Fat Guy]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if you want a pan with the properties of cast iron but lighter, get a . . . black steel skillet.

[slkinsey]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if you want a pan with the properties of cast iron but lighter, get a . . . black steel skillet.

This is unfortunately not true. Carbon steel and iron have the same density (7.87 g/cm^3) and fairly similar specific heat numbers (carbon steel is a litle better than iron). This means that, in order for a carbon steel pan to have a "cast-iron like" thermal capacity, it's would have to have to weigh almost as much as the equivalent cast iron pan. The difference in weight would be too small to make a practical difference. In addition, iron has better thermal conductivity than carbon steel (0.80 W/cm K compared to 0.51). This isn't a huge difference either, but might be noticable.

All this is to say that, if a carbon steel pan is light enough to be noticably different from an equivalent pan in cast iron, it won't have perfornance characteristics similar to the cast iron pan.

There's a reason that pans with better heat capacity properties tend to be heavier. The The Dulong-Petit Law tells us that all substances tend to have right around the same thermal capacity per mole.

Edited April 6, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[Fat Guy]

Thermal capacity will be a matter of mass, since the materials are similar, however all other aspects of performance should be functionally the same.

[slkinsey]

Yes, Steven, that's correct with respect to these two materials. Which is why your statement to the effect that carbon steel will give you "cast iron-like" performance at a lighter weight is incorrect. Thermal capacity is the defining property of cast iron, since it has relatively poor conductivity. If the pans do not weight the same amount, they will not have the same thermal capacity and therefore will not perform the same.

What you say would be more or less true if one were comparing a carbon steel pan with an unusually thin and light cast iron pan. But there's no way that a 2 pound carbon steel pan is going to perform similar to a 4 pound cast iron pan.

Edited April 6, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[Fat Guy]

Thermal capacity is the defining property of cast iron.

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I think we should put that to the test vis-a-vis carbon steel. I think you may find that the difference in thermal capacity between a two-pound pan and a four-pound pan is not as relevant to cooking as you're assuming. In some specific applications, like leaving a pan on a burner for 10 minutes to get it super-hot for searing, maybe. But in most other cooking, it may not be all that important. In my limited experience using them, heavy-duty black-steel pans are plenty thick to distribute heat evenly and perform pretty much like cast iron does. If I buy a two-pack, I'll gladly give you one to play with.

[slkinsey]

Oh, I've already got several carbon steel pans. I've had them for years. They're great, because they're cheap and you can get single-function pans (crepe pans, omelette pans, oval fish pans, etc.) for not very much money. I just wouldn't compare their performance to cast iron, and I tend to use them in very different ways. Carbon steel pans heat up more rapidly and, in the larger size, tend to have hot spots. In my opinion, carbon steel makes for a much better and more versatile all-purpose pan (I'm not particularly sold on the "all purpose-ness" of cast iron, and tend to use mine only for cooking tasks that take advantage of its unique properties). There are plenty of things where I reach for the carbon steel pan instead of the cast iron pan. But... for things where I want to use cast iron (searing steaks and chops and finishing them in the oven, cornbread, hamburgers, sausages, etc.), carbon steel is a poor substitute in my experience. Carbon steel is also substantially less durable than cast iron. It's quite easy to scour the seasoning right off a carbon steel (or French steel or black steel or blue steel or whatever you want to call it) with a Scotch Brite pad.

No need to order off the internet if you live in NYC. You can walk to Bridge Kitchenware or any of a zillion Bowery supply stores and choose from a vast profusion of carbon steel gauges, shapes and designs for ridiculously little money.

Edited April 6, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[Toliver]

I'm not aware of any manufacturer besides Lodge selling traditional cast iron cookware with wide distribution.

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Farberware sells them (at a great price):

Amazon's Friday Sale "Farberware Cast Iron 12-Inch Skillet"

It has a helper handle, too, which is a nice feature.

I wonder if they farm them out to another manufacturer or if this really is their own line.

[The Hersch]

[i wonder if they farm them out to another manufacturer or if this really is their own line.

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I bet they're made in China.

[slkinsey]

Meyer Corporation owns the license to cookware produced under the Farberware name. And I can't find any mention of cast iron on the Farberware web site. That makes me wonder whether this is a branding thing and makes me wonder who is really making it. Nevertheless, the design is not the same as Lodge's design. So it's nice to see some variety.

[Octaveman]

I certainly am not speaking for Steven but I understood his post to mean the performance properties of CI not, necessarily the technical properties. I have a DeBuyer black steel frying pan and it indeed takes on a non-stick surface and sears meat very nicely. I second his recommendation for one. Just keep in mind the lip of the frying is 3" of the total size so an 11" pan will have an 8" cooking surface.

[slkinsey]

Well, right. Of course he meant the performance properties. But the fact is, of course, that the performance of a pan is determined by its physical properties.

I love carbon steel. I think it's great, and I've advocated it many times. As I say above, I think it's especially nice that it's not a big expense to acquire single-use specialty pans in carbon steel. I've owned/used carbon steel frypans in various sizes over the years, and I still regularly use a carbon steel omelette pan and a carbon steel crepe pan.

So, it's not that I don't like carbon steel. Rather, as someone who has and uses several pieces of both cast iron and carbon steel, I just don't think carbon steel is well described as "cast iron minus the weight." Other than the fact that they are both "seasoned," I don't think the experience of cooking with cast iron and cooking with carbon steel is all that similar. Carbon steel cookware is unique. It doesn't have the high thermal capacity of heavy cast iron, or the properties that make cast iron so great for applications where one wants to maintain a constant temperature. On the other hand, it's a lot lighter, and it's quite a bit more responsive. If I had to describe it by comparing it to more commonly-understood materials in the home, I'd say it split the difference between cast iron and aluminum -- having some of the good qualities, but also some of the bad qualities of each.

(I would also take exception with the description of either seasoned cast iron or seasoned carbon steel as "non-stick," but that's probably better for another discussion. )

Edited April 6, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[paulraphael]

But there's no way that a 2 pound carbon steel pan is going to perform similar to a 4 pound cast iron pan.

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This is my experience, too. I think of the cast iron and the carbon steel as being totally different animals (with the exception of their nearly identical surface). The cast iron has a ton of thermal mass, takes a long time to heat up, a long time to cool down, and can brown a big piece of meat or fish without much drop in temperature.

The carbon steel and cools much more quickly. It doesn't have the same rock solid browning ability for big pieces of meat, but it's fine for smaller things that don't suck so much energy off the pan, and it offers quicker temperature control. Adjusting the temperature of a big cast iron pan feels like racing an ocean liner through a slalom course.

[Special K]

Back to the Lodge Signature pans - well, I want one! I like the longer handle and the nice helper handle, and I think they look great. And maybe the handles would cool a bit once out of the oven, diminishing somewhat the grab-the-pistol-hot-handle-barehanded syndrome? BUT I won't be paying top dollar for it. I figure the same impulse that leads people to give the original cast iron pans to Goodwill, etc., will lead them, eventually, to give these away, too. I'll pick one up at a yard sale or GW or Value Village - same as I have all of my many other cast iron pans (except the first one, which was a wedding gift 35 years ago). I just feel it is my duty to rescue them - my latest acquisition is a lovely Swedish platt (pancake) pan - make that Norweigan ("Tojul - Made in Norway" is stamped on the back).

I'm patient. I can wait.

[takadi]

... And, at the same time, no one seems to be selling polished cast iron, which most everyone agrees would be a great idea that's worth an extra, say, 15%.

What is polished cast iron?

This stuff (from Wagner's unfortunately vestigial web site). It's cast iron where the interior of the pan has been machined so that it is smooth instead of rough.

Does polished cast iron make any difference in perfomance or seasoning strength? Or does it just look really pretty?

[slkinsey]

I don't know! But I'd like to know.

I predict that it will lead to a "less sticky" surface. One notes that modern cast iron seems to have a rough cooking surface, even when well-seasoned. Antique examples, however, tend to have a glass-smooth cooking surface. Most people, myself included, report better performance from the old stuff. But who knows, without trying it? Unfortunately, no one seems to he able to get their mitts on any.

[Special K]

I just ran into another "improvement" of cast iron - nickel-dipped! Of course, it ain't cheap - $74.50 for the 10-inch skillet (Frontgate catalog). Anybody seen/heard of/tried this? They say it's nonstick and prevents odor absorption, and the finish will not melt, burn, crack, or chip. Guess I'll be looking for one of these at Value Village, too! (Yesterday I picked up a nice animal puzzle pan - for shortbread, I think. Will play with it this weekend).

[phatj]

I just ran into another "improvement" of cast iron - nickel-dipped!  Of course, it ain't cheap - $74.50 for the 10-inch skillet (Frontgate catalog).  Anybody seen/heard of/tried this?  They say it's nonstick and prevents odor absorption, and the finish will not melt, burn, crack, or chip.  Guess I'll be looking for one of these at Value Village, too!  (Yesterday I picked up a nice animal puzzle pan - for shortbread, I think.  Will play with it this weekend).

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I think I have such a pan, but it's not new. I got it at an auction along with my mainstay cast iron pan, and was mystified by the shiny, silvery finish. I don't think it ever had the nickel (if that is, in fact, what it is) on the inside, but judging by the outside of my pan, I'd take that claim that the finish is indestructible with a big grain of salt.

[slkinsey]

There's some discussion of this here in the Q&A thread to my eGCI class on cookware. My opinion can be summed up in two points: First, it's definitely not worth paying the markup over regular cast iron. Second, nickel isn't something I'd particularly care to ingest in extra amounts.

[Special K]

Thank you. I see your point. I don't mean to be argumentative (and I'm not going to run out and buy one right away), but it does seem to me that if the nickel layer is as indestructable as they claim, you really wouldn't be ingesting much if any. Just my nickel's . . . er, two cents worth.

[slkinsey]

I agree it's a very low risk. But why pay all that extra money for the privilege of finding out?

[Special K]

I agree it's a very low risk.  But why pay all that extra money for the privilege of finding out?

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Nope. But when somebody gets tired of lifting one of these pans, or inherits it and doesn't want it, I'll nab it at Value Village or Goodwill and give it a whirl. If I'm still able to type after using it, I'll report back!

[divalasvegas]

So, like what happened to the promised Iron Chef/Throwdown/Mano-a-Mano Thingy cookoff between Fat Guy and slkinsey?

Once and for all we were to see how cast iron stacks up against carbon steel.

Inquiring minds and taste buds want to know.