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Fillet knives?


alwang

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Hi all,

I'd like to learn to prep whole fish by myself, and I'm wondering how critical it is to have a fillet knife with a more flexible blade, or if I can just use my everyday knife, which is a pretty sharp 8" gyuto. If I do need a fillet knife, any reasonably-priced recommendations?

Thanks,

-al

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al wang

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Al, a gyuto can do the job but it's not recommended as you'd be dealing with bones to some capacity. The Japanese use a deba to break down fish and filet it. This is the knifes main purpose. It is very thick and stiff. Here is a video of some guy that has done his own video's of just this very thing. He uses a deba the entire process all the way to sashimi. It's done very well and I highly recommend viewing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ijoxvyD6E

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that is a GREAT video.

Isn't it though? Made me want to go out at once and find a fish so I could try it myself! Good job I don't have a car. :biggrin:

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

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You're right Scoobadoo. He uses a yanagiba to skin the filet and make sashimi slices. What I meant to say in my first post is that he uses the deba to this point, not all the way through making the slices for sashimi. A deba would not be ideal for making sashimi but it certainly can be used for taking the skin off. So, the deba is used for breaking down and filleting the fish making it ready for consumption. The Yanagiba will then make the slices for sashimi.

My Photography: Bob Worthington Photography

 

My music: Coronado Big Band
 

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The deba he's using is either a 180mm or a 210mm so it's not small. Sure, bigger fish need bigger knives but size is a secondary decision. What kind of knife to use is the primary concern. The deba excels at prepping whole fish.

Edited by Octaveman (log)

My Photography: Bob Worthington Photography

 

My music: Coronado Big Band
 

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Wow, that is a pretty great video: thanks, Octaveman.

So if I understand correctly, the Western and Japanese versions of a fillet knife seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum:

- A Western fillet knife is thinner and more flexible than your average chef's knife (in order to be able to work around the backbone? Or is it for skinning?)

- A Japanese deba is thicker and stouter than your average chef's knife or gyuto (to be able to work through bone without harming the blade?)

Both of these lines of reasoning make sense to me. Which one do I want? Or should I just split the difference and stick with my gyuto? :)

-al

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al wang

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It's just different techniques and styles of doing the same job. I'm sure a person that is proficient in using the western fillet knife can do the same job just as well as someone proficient with a deba. Keep in mind the bone thing. I personally would feel more comfortable using a sturdy knife around bones that a knife that wasn't designed for that job. Actually, I can't think of any Japanese knife that is flexible. In the video below, the guy uses both a large (270mm) deba or a stiff knife specifically for cutting down tuna. No flexible fillet knife used. You probably won't need knives this big but a 180mm-210mm deba would work great. Then you can use your gyuto at the same point the other video started using the Yanagiba. The idea is to learn how to use the knife you buy. I think the deba is more useful and it's not the same old boring look-like-everything-else-out-there western styled knife. You can get different handle materials, you can get the blade engraved, it has cool looking kanji on them, etc. But that's just me. :biggrin:

http://itkitchenknife.com/j_catalog/tuna.shtml

Edited by Octaveman (log)

My Photography: Bob Worthington Photography

 

My music: Coronado Big Band
 

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It seem to me that the idea of a flexible fillet knife comes from Scandinavia-at least the first ones I ever saw were Finnish made.

I agree that with a small fish like the one shown a small knife with a flexible blade would be much easier for me to use than the shank as shown. :raz:

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A flexible Fillet knife allows one to accomplish two things:

1. The handle can be raised above the cutting plane of the blade because the blade bends allowing your hand not to contact/interfere with the cutting surface.

2. Large fish rib cages are not flat but have a contour that a flexible blade can follow allowing one maximum utilization of the fish.

I use an 8" Wusthof 'Flexibel' knife for most applications.

I do have Japanese Yanagibi knives for sashimi/sushi fish prep but the fish is already in either block or thin fillet configuration.

The video technique is classic Japanese, I assume developed because historically, they didn't have flexible blades. With a flexible blade all that is needed is two vertical cuts at the rear of the gill plates and one cut along each side of the backbone and then follow the rib cage, seperate the fillet and remove the skin, the remaining fish is in one piece and can be discarded or used however. Much simpler and faster but not traditional Japanese.

Of more interest is this video

showing the dismanteling of a large Yellowtail tuna. Note the large deba and the long tako biki type knives. It is in this realm where these knives come into thier own. The longer tako biki is blunt in case one accidently spears someone with it! -Dick Edited by budrichard (log)
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I cut alot of fish-primarily speckled trout, red and black drum, flounder, the occasional yellowtail, and some freshwater fish like white perch (that's crappie to you from the Northern Climes), bream (once again, for those of you up there in the North Country, those would be sunfish, perch, whatever) of various sorts, and the occasional bass (we don't eat them so much as we spend massive amounts of money getting them in the boat and the whole eating thing seems to be not quite so fun) and other fish. I get by with one of these

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s...t=SearchResults

And one of these when we are running through tons of specs-

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s...t=SearchResults

That's a great video. Makes me want to go cut some fish.

Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

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The video technique is classic Japanese, I assume developed because historically, they didn't have flexible blades. With a flexible blade all that is needed is two vertical  cuts at the rear of the gill plates and one cut along each side of the backbone and then follow the rib cage, seperate the fillet and remove the skin, the remaining fish is in one piece and can be discarded or used however. Much simpler and faster but not traditional Japanese.

Of more interest is this video

showing the dismanteling of a large Yellowtail tuna. Note the large deba and the long tako biki type knives. It is in this realm where these knives come into thier own. The longer tako biki is blunt in case one accidently spears someone with it! -Dick

Wow, what a great video. I wish I posted that one. Wait a minute, I did! (two posts above this) HAHAHA...just poking fun, Dick. :raz: What I'd actually like to see is a video using a flexible knife in the technique you describe. It would be cool to see the differences.

My Photography: Bob Worthington Photography

 

My music: Coronado Big Band
 

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fantastic videos and a good topic in terms of western(european)vs japanese techniques,would always use a flexible blade, make not being the major issue as the sharpness of the blade is the key.would start head to tail ,right side first fish pointing forward. The key being not to go through but over and around the rib cage with minimum loss of flesh,v tricky with sea bass but worth the effort and patience.

I worked with a fantastic chef and he could fillet any fish with any knife as long as the blade was true so go with a brand you are familiar with and keep buying whole fish, as with most cooking techniques doing it again and again does lead to some understanding as long as you begin well.

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