Botched Bagels

[guzzirider]

Well, a few weeks ago, I made my first attempt at bagels, and amazingly, they turned out quite good:

I used King Arthur's "Sir Lancelot" hi-gluten flour, but the only problem with that is that I can't find this flour locally, and had to order it online. I hate paying shipping on a product this inexpensive, especially when there's a chance that I'll be using it on a regular basis.

So, this weekend I was going to do a side-by-side comparison: one batch with KA Sir Lancelot, and one batch with locally-available KA AP "doped" with wheat gluten additive to bring the protein level up. I made the dough and formed the bagels last night, and let them sit in the fridge overnight. Got up this morning to finish them. Before boiling, I let them sit at room temperature for about an hour, but they never rose enough to float in a bowl of water like they should have. Nevertheless, I boiled a few of them, hoping they would poof up anyway. Nope. No such luck. They came out of the pot looking the same as when they went in. Now I went from worried, to *very* worried. I began to suspect that the yeast I just bought yesterday was shot.

I decided to bake the few that I boiled... just out of curiosity. Again, they came out of the oven looking pretty much the same way they went in. No rise whatsoever.

And then I tasted one. The problem became immediately apparent....

I mistakenly measured my salt in TABLESPOONS rather than TEASPOONS, which killed the yeast.

This is the sort of hilarious mistake that is only supposed to happen to "other people". Not so funny when it happens to you!

... grumble grumble grumble...

__Jason

Edited March 11, 2007 by guzzirider (log)

[gfron1]

I wonder if you could slice them and make them into bagel chips...or are they too far gone?

[JeanneCake]

I've had good luck with my local supermarket bringing in special orders from KA for me; try asking and see what happens. You might have to agree to a huge amount, though (50# or more) but give it a shot.....

[Peter the eater]

I am a bit surprised tripling the salt would do such a number on the yeast.

Good to know.

[guzzirider]

I wonder if you could slice them and make them into bagel chips...or are they too far gone?

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Hmmm... in hindsight, I wish I would have tried that. The saltiness might have been OK in "chip form". Sadly, most of the dough remained unbaked, and I tossed it all.

I've had good luck with my local supermarket bringing in special orders from KA for me; try asking and see what happens.  You might have to agree to a huge amount, though (50# or more) but give it a shot.....

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I was actually considering asking my local supermarket as you said... the minimum order might be a problem though, as large quantities may pose a storage problem for me. Definitely something I plan to look into, though.

I am a bit surprised tripling the salt would do such a number on the yeast.

Good to know.

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Well, I knew that too much salt could do this... I just didn't know how much. I've been thinking about this, though, and I think the amount of salt called for in the original recipe may have just been enough to retard the yeast a bit, and help make for a dense, chewy bagel (which is good). Tripling that salt absolutely killed it, however. I was thinking of trying to reduce the amount of salt which is called for, but it might make for a lighter, "cakier" bagel, and I definitely don't want it too cakey.

__Jason

[BarbaraY]

I have had good luck making bagles with AP flour with added gluten. KA flour is unavailable in the stores here and the shipping is just too much for my pocketbook.

I used the America's Test Kitchen recipe and they were nice and chewy the way I like them, Most store bagles are too cakie for my taste.

Edited March 12, 2007 by BarbaraY (log)

[guzzirider]

Barbara, what brand of gluten do you use, and how much do you add? My understanding is that various brands differ in protein %, which is why I ask.

I did a bit of math prior to my failed experiment this weekend, and figured that if I add 1 Tbsp of vital wheat gluten per cup of KA AP flour, the protein content would be similar to Sir Lancelot. (I think!).

BTW, I'm also using the CI recipe.

__Jason

[BarbaraY]

I don't recall the brand because I put it into a jar and tossed the packing but I use about the same ratio as you.

[guzzirider]

I don't recall the brand because I put it into a jar and tossed the packing but I use about the same ratio as you.

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Thanks!

__Jason

[glennbech]

This is horribagel :-) This is what happens with the bagel if the dough isn't stiff enough :-) Just though it might cheer you up guzzirider

Edited March 14, 2007 by glennbech (log)

[guzzirider]

Hilarious! Thanks for sharing that... it does make me feel better! Looks like the poor thing sprung a leak...

__Jason

[prairiegirl]

Where do I fid a good bagel recipe?

[guzzirider]

Where do I fid a good bagel recipe?

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I've been using the Cook's Illustrated recipe (and I know others do to). It was published in '97, but is available on their website (but there is a membership fee for their website).

__Jason

[sugarseattle]

Glad you identified the problem. I've done a number of doozies, namely omitting sugar on a regular basis, which is absolutely hilarious, given the name of my bakery is "sugar".

Anyhow, we have a store in seattle area called Cash & Carry, also sometimes called United Grocers. They are sort of like Costco, but without membership. Whereas Costco caters to mainstream and might not have high gluten flour, some of the other restaurant supply stores might have it. Bagel bakeries would likely use a bakery supplier, and whether or not you qualify for wholesale would determine whether you could buy from then.

My point being is that a 50lb sack is likely going to only run you about 13bucks, and even though you might not go thru it in 6 months, it will still probably be cheaper than getting it from the King, and you won't have to wait when you get a hankering for fresh bagels.

[beccaboo]

Anyhow, we have a store in seattle area called Cash & Carry, also sometimes called United Grocers. They are sort of like Costco, but without membership. Whereas Costco caters to mainstream and might not have high gluten flour, some of the other restaurant supply stores might have it. Bagel bakeries would likely use a bakery supplier, and whether or not you qualify for wholesale would determine whether you could buy from then.

My point being is that a 50lb sack is likely going to only run you about 13bucks, and even though you might not go thru it in 6 months, it will still probably be cheaper than getting it from the King, and you won't have to wait when you get a hankering for fresh bagels.

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I got a 50-lb bag of 'Power Flour' at United Grocers for about $15, and split it with a friend so I only had to find storage space for 25 lbs. It's good for chewy-crust pizza as well as bagels (I use AP mixed with pastry flour for crispy pizza).

[Always_a_3rd]

HAHAHHA, I'm not laughing at you, I was laughing because I remember the first time I made bagels. Not having much experience at the time, and the recipe was rather unclear as to the size that they should shaped to, I formed them into COOKED bagel size (or maybe a wee bit bigger) rather than uncooked bagel size. The second they were plunged into the boiling water, instant automobile tires that resembled bagels, just 10X bigger. Just mutant ugly things that the girlfriend was scared of. Haven't had the heart to try them again, even ten years later. Thanks for the memories!