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Robenco15

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Everything posted by Robenco15

  1. Not everything needs to be pasteurized if you are to consume immediately (or within 4 hours). Whole muscle cuts of beef, like steak are fine - as long as you give it a surface sear which will kill all surface bacteria. The theory is that the interior of whole muscle cuts (meat that hasn't been punctured) are considered sterile, but the surface may be contaminated. BTW - while doing this, I would recommend searing before SV - as many times, low temperature baths for rare steak are like incubators for bacteria - so you'd want to kill any surface bacteria before hitting the bath. Some people drop the bagged steak in boiling water for a short time... but personally, I'm a fan of the pre and post sear. Pre for bacteria, post for flavor/color.Other foods, like poultry, should be pasteurized regardless of when you plan on consuming it.I think the rule of thumb with pasteurization would go along with whether you would consider eating the same item raw. So steak, for instance, can be eaten as tartare, so you wouldn't need to pasteurize other than the surface. I don't know anyone who would ever consider eating raw chicken. Just a couple of comments. The Japanese have a number of raw chicken dishes. And more importantly one needs to be aware that steaks are now frequently jaccarded (pierced all over with very fine blades to cut the muscle fibres) prior to sale to tenderise them. This is not always obvious but it suggests that one needs to know the provenance of one's steaks before assuming that they don't require pasteurization. Right - I thought about explicitly mentioning the industrial jaccarding, but didn't - I alluded to it when I mentioned "meat that hasn't been punctured" but I should have been more explicit, so thanks for pointing that out. With regards to the chicken, while I know there are a few cultures that eat raw poultry, I'm not sure if they're doing that at home, or only in restaurants that know exactly when and how the chicken was slaughtered, gutted, etc to minimize the chances of bacterial problems. And I have no idea how popular those dishes are - do people eat them all the time or is it only once in a long while? Just like with sushi - you can't just go to your local market, pick up a piece of salmon fillet or something and assume it is sushi grade and safe for raw consumption. Nothing is impossible, but I have a hard time believing that people are going to their local market, picking up some chicken that may have been sitting there for a few days, and consuming it raw.Regarding the question about pasteurization time - the pasteurization time is a constant for a given core temperature and bacteria type. What varies is the amount of time it takes the core to get to that temperature - which varies primarily by thickness/shape. Douglas Baldwin makes it easy by incorporating pasteurization time into some of the tables - but I think early-on NathanM posted a table of pasteurization times by temperature that you could add to the time it takes to reach core temperature. If you have an iOS device, I would highly recommend downloading the SousVideDash app - designed by an EGullet member and fellow sous vide enthusiast Vengroff. It is not expensive, and it makes the problem of cooking times, pasteurization, etc. a non-issue as the app calculates everything for you. All you need to do is enter in the type of protein, desired core temp, bath temp, food shape and thickness, and you're ready to go. ETA: Yes, shape matters. I don't believe NathanM went into detail about it in the early tables, but if memory serves, it was address in Modernist Cuisine. It is also addressed in the Sous Vide Dash app. The early nathanm tables assumed an infinite plane of a certain thickness (like a slab) - which is the worst case scenario. If you are using the same bath temp as core temp, then this is a good figure to use at will ensure that the core is what you think it is. Other shapes will reduce the need for as long of a cooking time to come to temp. Shape becomes much more critical if you're doing gradient cooking - your core temp is lower than your bath temp. Some people prefer this method for certain foods that they don't want to be 100% even... personally, I do that when I cook fatty fish - like salmon. I use a bath temp of 115F, but shoot for a core temp of 102F - it comes out just how I like it every time, plus it makes the cooking time quite a bit shorter. But that is much trickier to figure without the app. Cooking multiple bags does not affect anything so long as you have decent water flow around each of the bags - they shouldn't be stacked up touching each other. As long as your water can flow around each bag, and your heater can remedy the initial temp drop in a short amount of time it's fine. Thank you so much for all of that info! I will look into the app, but I heard the cooking times tend to be longer than they need to be compared to the various charts on this site. I have one more question about thost NathanM charts. I see it starts with a steak at 41F and then gives bath temperature and time needed to cook to reach approx. 130F. For one, how do I check that the steak is at 41F. I use a thermometer like the thermapen and check the raw steak's core temperature by putting it in it right? Or can I/am I supposed to use an infared surface thermometer? I also understand that if I start with a steak that is 51F and I want it to be at a core temperature of 140F then I still use the same exact cook times and obviously adjust the waterbath temperature. Now, what if I start with a steak that is 51F or higher (room temperature) and still want it to be at a core temperature of 130F. The cook time is decreased, correct? But, how do I figure out the perfect cook time? A math equation? I hate math. Instead of that, can I just let it cook for the same length of time as if it started at 41F? It can't overcook right? The only problem with letting it sit at that temperature longer would be that it "dries out" a little or somehow negatively affects the meat? In sous vide you want to cook something in the waterbath for as short as you need to to achieve the desired core temperature and safety precautions right? Letting the meat sit at core temperature of 130F for longer because it started higher than 41F just means it is slightly pasteurizing? NathanM's cooking time on his charts seem to differ significantly from Dr. Baldwin's cooking times on his charts (his non-pasteurization chart, table 2.2). Dr. Baldwin's "from frozen" charts look incredibly helpful. Do I seem to be grasping more of this?
  2. Thank you for all of the help! I have a question about the Nathanm beef and poultry/pork charts I've been looking at. Are they pasteurization charts or just sear and serve charts? They seem to me to be sear and serve charts. Does Nathanm have pasteurization charts somewhere? Thickness is taken into account, but what about if it is a pork tenderloin that may be 3 inches thick but 12 inches long. I know Baldwin has charts for sperical, cylindrical, and slab meat, but does Nathanm have them somewhere? Does cooking multiple bags of the same protein in one waterbath affect cooking time at all? Obviously the temperature may drop more but in terms of cooking time, does it matter? Thank you! So glad to be feeling more comfortable about the safety involved with it.
  3. I can ask him when he thinks he can start taking orders from people who didn't back him on Kickstarter. He actually doesn't live far from me. We've been emailing back and forth, so I'll ask him when I email him again. He supposed to start shipping to backers in the middle to end of October, so if you really want one, he may be able to put you on a list for like a "pre-order" or something and ship to you after he ships to all the backers. I'll ask for you. Thank you! I'm not set on it yet, but definitely ask about it. That would be awesome!
  4. Yeah I was reading through it. I want to make sure I am understanding it correctly. Pasteurization is obviously a great thing, but it also takes hours and hours to achieve. If I was to sous vide a piece of meat with the idea of chilling it in an ice bath and then refrigerating or freezing it, I have to pasteurize it. But, if I plan on taking it out of the bag, searing it, and eating it, then I don't have to worry about pasteurizing it as I won't be holding it for a long period of time in the fridge, etc. I believe if I was a restaurant I would have 4 hours to serve it? Hence, Dr. Baldwin has two separate tables on his website. Table 2.2 is not pasteurization and table 5.1 is pasteurization. In Modernist Cuisine, they give the temperature and the sous vide time for steaks to be between 45 to 60 minutes. That is not the pasteurization time correct? That is the sear and serve time isn't it? What about eggs? Eggs cooked at 63C for 60 minutes aren't pasteurized are they? But they are safe to eat immediately right? I'm reading and trying to make sense of everything on Baldwin's site but I'm also trying to make sense of all of the new terms in my head and look to you guys for confirmation that I'm understanding it.
  5. So it won't be a problem. Cool. And pasteurized means that it was cooked at a temperature to eliminate bacteria, right? So much lingo and it all revolves around safety so I'm really trying to get my head around it. By the way, I like to pre-salt my steaks an hour per inch, rinse them, season them and then cook them on the grill or in a pan. Can I/Should I still do this when doing them sous vide? Do I season the steaks and then put them in the bag or do everything afterwards? Can I pre-salt at least, wash it off, dry, put it in the bag, sous vide, and season afterwards? Do you in general season everything after cooking it sous vide?
  6. Thanks for sharing that device greenmonk! I'll look into it when it begins shipping. A question that I can't seem to find the exact answer to. If I sous vide a ribeye (or anything I guess) in a Ziploc bag using the water displacement method then put it in a ice bath (still in the bag) and then refrigerate it until I'm ready to sear it, etc. and serve, is that ok/safe? For how long can I refrigerate it? 24 hours? 3 hours? Could I eliminate all questions of it being unsafe if, after I dunk it in an ice bath, I just put it in a new bag or put it on a plate and refrigerate it in the fridge with it covered?
  7. Nice. That is what I was hoping to hear. Getting more for your money is always a good thing.
  8. Yes, I did look at that. The only performance differences I see are that the Anova circulates at 12L/min compared to the Polyscience which is at 6L/min and the Polyscience heats at 1100 Watts compared to Anova's 1000 Watts. So plus 1 to Anova for the 12L/min and plus 1 to Polyscience for the 1100 Watts of power compared to the Anova's 1000 Watts? What am I missing for a 200 dollar price difference? Or are we then looking at build quality and the size of the devices?
  9. It does what it does competently enough that I can't see the Sansaire being measurably better enough to be worth the wait. At the end of the day, you're just buying a device to heat water accurately so there's not too many points of differentiation.Cool. By the way, what does the cheaper version of the Polyscience Sous Vide do differently than the Anova? Or is it technically supposed to be more accurate, heat up quicker, circulate quicker, work with a larger volume of water? I don't know a ton about the Polyscience so I'm having trouble figuring out the huge price difference. Thank you!
  10. yeah I've watched that 3 or 4 times haha. thanks though!
  11. Sous Vide Lobster I looked through the Sous Vide index and read the posts about cooking lobster Sous Vide. All of those posts are old, and while that isn't an issue because the information is still good, I had a question about any new advances in making sous vide lobster. In the L'astrance cookbook Pascal says he freezes the lobsters first, then when they thaw the meat releases off of their shells, eliminating the need to parboil them. Has anyone tried something like this? Any new/better times and temperatures for sous vide lobster? I assume it is always "poached" in butter in the bag. The temperatures I am finding now is 45C. Thanks!
  12. So are there any more thoughts or opinions from anyone who has recently acquired and used the Anova Sous Vide circulator? Any reason to wait a few months for the Sansaire reviews to start coming in?
  13. Wow. That is amazing. Everything I ever need is right there. Thank you so much! So much for a book, which is good news. I might eventually get Keller's book anyway as it is the last one I need to complete my collection. Not that I collect books, but since I already have his other four, why not right?
  14. Thank you! I might have been searching for too specific of keywords that I couldn't find that.
  15. Hello All, I am looking for a sous vide cookbook that would provide me with information from a safety standpoint, fantastic and proper techniques, and excellent recipes. I plan on purchasing the Anova Sous Vide Immersion Circulator soon and wanted to make sure I get a good education in proper and safe sous vide cooking. I do not own a pressure cooker and will not be owning one for the forseeable future (maybe xmas), but do own a good amount of kitchen equipment that has helped me reproduce French Laundry recipes more or less word for word. Anyway, the three books I've looked at are Sous Vide for the Home Cook, Under Pressure: Cooking Sous Vide, and Modernist Cuisine at Home. I'm pretty sure that those are the three you would all recommend for me. Some background: I have cooked plentry from The French Laundry, Ad Hoc at Home, and Bouchon. I LOVE Thomas Keller, for his pursuit of excellence, techniques, and just about everything. However, I've read not so amazing things about his Under Pressure book in aspects of cooking times, contradictions in what is considered safe, and the inability to make most of the dishes, which I generally scoff at but that has been mentioned so many times I'm beginning. For Sous Vide for the Home Cook I haven't been able to find a ton about it. From what I am able to tell it will tell me how to cook the main protein component of a dish but not so much a full dish. But that may be ideal as I can do whatever I want after correctly and safely cooking the main element of a dish. Modernist Cuisine at Home I have been able to look through a lot and find that there is just too much equipment that I don't have and will not have for awhile. It is also massive and I literally don't think I have room for it. Do I even need a book? Is there a book I'm missing? I guess I could cook any dish from a cookbook I own, but cook the main component sous vide. Then I just need to find a resource for the correct temperature and times, etc. I'm sure there are websites out there? When it comes down to it I am always trying to do everything with the best technique and absolute refinement in creating the best possible product. Thank you for your help and I appreciate the guidance!
  16. I have an insert to a salad spinner that would work perfectly! Thank you that is exactly what I was trying to think of without realizing I had it!
  17. Oh ok, that makes sense. So either putting them in a basket or putting a basket over them would work right? I'm sure putting them in a basket works but since I can't physically see it, won't the eggs get sucked out of the basket? Or is it not sucking but pushing the eggs around, hence the basket? I'm glad I read this as this is one of the first things I want to do sous vide!
  18. Put the eggs in a small open basket. dcarch can you just put the eggsi in a bag using water displacement? or put a basket over them, like a cage?
  19. Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm going to go the water displacement method for the time being. Not trying to buy more stuff and it should be fine. Thanks for the help guys!
  20. Hello, So now that the Anova Sous Vide Circulator is 200 dollars I am seriously beginning to think about starting to cook sous vide at home. I enjoy cooking complex meals and have wanted to get involved with sous vide for awhile. Since you all have so many answers, I wanted to make sure of a few things before I made any purchases. I do not plan on buying any type of vacuum sealing device or anytime in the near future. I have no space and while I have the money, I don't want to make additional purchases if I don't need to. Plus, no space. I was planning on using Ziploc bags zipper bags, but now I am reading that because they are made for the freezer or for carrying food at room temperature, they are not safe/good to use in sous vide instances where you are actually cooking food within them at a high temperature. Is that correct? Does Ziploc even make heat safe bags? Cheap alternatives? I am not trying to purchase anyting additional besides the circulator. I have a smaller beer cooler that probably holds around 5 gallons and I would attach it to that. I would then put plastic wrap over the top as best as I can to provide insulation, along with a blanket I guess. Does this all sound plausible? I do not want to purchase anything additional besides the actual sous vide. I was really hoping to use the ziploc bags I already own for various other reasons. I appreciate your help as I have to convince my girlfriend that this is worth having, not overtly expensive, and worth doing! Thank you!
  21. It doesn't have to be those fancy balls does it? Regular ping pong balls work fine?
  22. Questions about coolers - When using a cooler could you just use plastic wrap or aluminum foil to cover it? How else would you cover it?
  23. Lukas, When you clamp it to a container, does the top/lip of the container come all the way up to the inside of the clamp? Or is the clamp strong enough to suspend it at different heights. Does that make sense? That way I can control how close to the bottom of a pot the bottom of the circulator is. Is the clamp completely metal on the side that would touch the container or is there rubber to provide some friction?
  24. Awesome. Has anyone else noticed a Sansaire employee has started taking questions in another thread? This is getting good.
  25. I think you may have answered this but: I have an 8 quart stock pot that is 6.5inches high. Will this work with that stock pot? What issues with water and electricity could I encounter with the Sansaire? Is there a point to where the water can't come up the circulator? Thank you!
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