ryansm

Haha, well as blasphemous as it may be, I'm gonna play around with evil this weekend. I'm really only interested in the potential textural enhancements/differences. Definitely not looking for anything like a sauce, but maybe just a tad smoother melt and maybe avoid that slab-of-tile effect the cheese can have when cools. I'll probably try with a few different %s of sodium citrate to see the effect of various concentrations.

Paul, good find! Nothing stimulates the appetite like reading a patent about industrial food processing written in legalese! So after reading that patent filing and some similar ones, it does seem that the sodium citrate helps the fluidity and melting of the cheese, and it seems to enable the cheese to be used on pizza directly out of the freezer without thawing (not too sure about that last part, I'm not interested in it, so I just skimmed it). The patents mostly seem to be about ways to apply the sodium citrate to frozen cheese, and nearly all of them are filed by Leprino, who supplies cheese to both Papa John's and Papa Gino's, the examples I listed above. Curious to know if anyone has any firsthand experience with this. The concentrations they use in the filings vary wildly, ranging (from what I can tell) from 0.17% to 2%. If not I may do some experimentation when I make pizza this weekend.

Hi all, While doing some research on pizza making, I came across some ingredient lists for chain pizza shops that include sodium citrate in their cheese mixes. It appears that the citrate is added to the shredded cheese along with the anti-caking agents and preservatives, not as an ingredient in the cheese itself. Here are some examples: Papa Gino's: Mozzarella cheese (pasteurized milk, cultures, salt, enzymes), Aged cheddar cheese (pasteurized milk, cultures, salt, enzymes), romano cheese (sheeps milk, rennet, salt), oregano, natural flavors, salt, sodium citrate, sodium propionate Papa John's: Part-skim mozzarella cheese (pasteurized milk, cultures, salt, enzymes), modified food starch, powdered cellulose (added to prevent caking), whey protein concentrate, sodium citrate, sodium propionate (added as a preservative) I'm familiar with using citrate in making reconstituted or melting cheeses, a la Modernist Cuisine, but I've never seen it used this way. Does anyone have any insight into this? Does the citrate as they're using it contribute to better melting or a different texture? Could it play a different role? Is this something that could actually improve the pizza and be adapted for home use, or is it a way of compensating for the handling/storage of (likely) cheap cheeses that chain pizza stores use? Anyway, this was new to me and I was curious about it, so I'd appreciate any thoughts or information anyone has! Cheers, Ryan

No need to truss. Most assumptions about traditional chicken roasting don't apply here because the technique is so radically different. Keller has you roast at around 450 degrees for about 45 minutes, but this is roasting at 200 degrees for around 4 hours. My understanding has been that you truss a chicken to prevent air circulation in the cavity, which would overcook and dry out the breast before the legs and thighs were done. That's not a concern here because you're cooking at such a low temperature. I made the roast chicken last night and it turned out beautifully. It took just about 4 hours to reach 140 degrees. Extraordinarily juicy breast meat, and the skin was lovely and crisp. I also made the potato puree, and their method is my new standard--it gives both a perfect texture and a deep potato flavor.

It's 300 grams total of any liquid you want to infuse. It can be 300 grams of cream, 300 grams of milk, 300 grams of simple syrup, or 150 grams cream + 150 grams of milk. If you look on the next page at the creme brulee, they're infusing a total of 300 grams liquid (half cream and half milk) with coffee using the infusion technique on the previous page.

Ideas in food book contains nice information on exactly this. I do not own MC (yet) but have been using Ideas in food to play with a number of hydrocolloids succesfully. Thanks! I actually already own that, but haven't gotten to any of the hydrocolloid sections yet, so thanks for the heads up.

What kind of flour did you use? Many 00 flours in the US aren't labeled according to their gluten content, but since the 00 refers to the fineness of the grind, not protein level, there are low to high 00 flours floating around on shelves. Perhaps you used a lower-gluten 00 flour than they intended?

Oops, Chris, I saw that you made the regular Neapolitan pizza dough, not the no-knead. The MCaH regular Neapolitan is 62% hydration, which should be pretty easy to work with. If your dough was that difficult to work with, the first suspect would be under-kneading it. Most of my pizza doughs are around 60%, give or take 2%, and they only behaved like you described when, as a beginner, I chronically under-kneaded breads. As for transferring dough from the peel, I find that a 50/50 blend of white flour and semolina make a much better bench/peel flour than using plain white flour, and make sure you give the peel a good jerk or two before you add each topping.

I just registered my copy, and was wondering if anyone knows whether there is currently any "exclusive" content on the website for MCaH owners? Where would it be if/when it's available? Thanks!

Chris, thanks for the response, it makes perfect sense. So far, my impression of MCaH is that its main weakness is the lack of information about modernist ingredients. I understand the aim of this book, and wasn't expecting anything even close to the ingredient discussion present in MC, but I was hoping for something more than basically just showing a picture of some of the common ingredients in the 2-page spread. There are more details about how microwave ovens and induction burners work than what xanthan gum and soy lecithin are and how to use them. It's nice to know about cooking gear, sure, but it seems much more practical to learn about the ingredients. For example, in the spread on pages 70-71, I saw that they recommend liquid lecithin instead of powdered, and saw this called for in the recipes. Only later did I happen to stumble upon a footnote in one of the sauce recipes that explained the difference between the two and why they cannot be substituted for one another. I'm sure there's more helpful info like this throughout the book, but it would be far preferable to have it in one place for easy reference. I guess what I wanted was some kind of chart of the more common thickeners and such, with suggested uses and their accompanying percentages. For example, use .x% xanthan gum for this effect, .y% for this effect, etc. In the book's format, it's hard to take the techniques and ingredients used throughout MCaH and incorporate them into your own cooking and creation. In fact, part of the reason for my expectations and then let down came from some of the pre-release publicity. This mini-guide to modernist ingredients, written by Nathan and the MC team (http://www.saveur.co...ist-Ingredients) in the lead-up to the book's release gave the impression that this was a sample or pared down version of what to come. In reality, this article has more information than the actual book! Several of the ingredients discussed in the article are not actually written about (at least not in the ingredient guide.) I understand that all of the information I want is surely in MC, but (a) I only have access to it via the library, and (b) it's information that is quite relevant and should be available to MCaH buyers. I certainly don't think it's something that could be considered out of the scope of this book and its audience (definitely no more than detailing where the vacuum reservoir and exhaust channels are on an edge sealer!).

I received my copy today, which I had ordered from Amazon US. It arrived in the MCaH cardboard box, with no packaging added from Amazon, and was in pristine condition. I wonder if all the copies that were shipped in sleeves only came from the same fulfillment center? I'm not sure how many there are in Canada, but that might explain why there has been packaging ranging from sleeve-only to everything-inside-an-Amazon-box.

I just stumbled across this and was hoping someone can tell me what it means. In the creamed spinach recipe (p. 199), it says Ultra-Sperse 3 can be used instead of Wondra, and that it has "better flavor release" than wheat or corn-based starches. I've never heard the term "flavor release" before, and was wondering what it means in this context.

I just got my copy, and wow, it's absolutely incredible! About the pizza: I looked at the recipe, and the hydration in MCaH is incredibly high, 75%. Way too high, in my opinion, unless you have extensive experience working with high-hydration doughs (even then, a Neapolitan pizza with hydration that high seems like an outlier). For reference, Jim Lahey's no-knead dough (which the headnote says theirs is based on) is 70% hydration, and the Serious Eats Neapolitan dough mentioned by Merkinz is 65%. So if you thought the Serious Eats dough was hard to work with, this'll be much, much more difficult. Most Neapolitan doughs have hydrations in the 60s, when it's up in the 70s its extremely difficult or impossible to work with. Most doughs with hydrations that high are things like Sicilian pies, which are stretched into a pan, not shaped by hand.

Having said that, if everyone here who ordered through Amazon and received a copy in only shrink wrap leaves feedback in the packaging feedback area and notes their problems, it might help them flag the issue faster and start shipping it correctly.

splice42, My experience is with Amazon US, but I think their policies are the same. Instead of contacting them via packaging feedback, contact them in the Your Orders section within My Account. There's an option for Returns and Replacements, and it'll guide you through the process. I've actually only had stellar customer service from Amazon when it comes to books arriving damaged, and depending on the damage, you can usually request either a discount or have them send you a new copy.

Merkinz, this is definitely a good tip, but that wasn't the issue here as I wasn't using new oil. As a side note, I worked at KFC in high school, and it's 100% true about new oil: not only is the coloring lighter and less appealing, but the flavor is also nothing compared to what you get when using old oil.

Thanks so much for the info! Good to know that the authentic MCAH preparation will be better; thankfully it'll be here tomorrow!

Right. I missed that the "manufacturer's packaging" should include an MC cardboard box which contains the shrink-wrapped books/sleeve. Good point.

Rereading the recipe, I'm wondering if my problem was draining too much of the marinade from the wings before tossing them in the Wondra and potato starch? Mine ended up looking like wings tossed in flour, but if the wings are supposed to be fairly wet when they go into the flour mix, I can see a kind of batter forming--what was your experience?

Chris, I bit the bullet and ordered MCAH yesterday, but before that, I made the Korean wings as written on Chow (http://www.chow.com/recipes/30492-korean-chicken-wings), and they turned out nothing like yours! I'm no stranger to frying, but when I made them, they turned out rather pale and insipid looking, and weren't particularly crunchy. I'm curious whether this recipe/frying technique is the same as what's presented in the book. Especially since you called them battered wings, and there's no batter present in the recipe on Chow.

I noticed that on the Amazon Canada MCAH product page there is the following notice: Ships in Original Packaging: This item ships separately and in the original manufacturer's packaging. There will be shipping labels attached to the outside of the package. You may mark this item as a gift if you do not wish to reveal the contents. But there is nothing of the sort on the Amazon US product page. It seems this, for some reason, is Amazon Canada's way of shipping it.

Bojana, As you probably know, boiling is the worst technique in terms of vitamin loss, since many vitamins are leached into the cooking water and then disposed. Heat sensitive vitamins, like C, are diminished while pressure cooking, but no more than other high-heat techniques, like sauteeing or roasting. In fact, there tends to be slightly less vitamin loss because pressure cooking times are often lower than other techniques. For example, if you make a vegetable soup by simmering everything in a pot for 4 hours vs. pressure cooking for 30 minutes, the effect of the higher heat of pressure cooking is more or less negligible, but the reduced exposure time to high heat lessens the destruction of many nutrients. So for most things (I'm sure there are certain vitamins or minerals that don't fit this guideline, perhaps others know), if you're cooking with any form of high heat, the nutrient destruction is (more or less) the same past a certain temperature, but the time exposed to temperature past that point determines the loss.

Wow, wtf is going on with Amazon and the price of this book!?! I've been debating whether to buy it because it's quite a big expense for me, and Amazon is certainly not helping make the decision any easier. I've been tracking the price for a few months now, and kept waiting for the usual Amazon discount off list price. Eventually there was a small discount, which kept fluctuating, then I was hoping that once the official release date came, the price would stabilize. That's certainly not the case! Amazon (US) is now currently shipping it, and the price has changed in the past hour and a half! An hour and a half ago they were selling it at 9% off the list price, now it's back up to $140 with no discount (as of 12pm EST). I buy A LOT of books on Amazon, and I've never once seen anything like this. It's the #419 best seller in all of books on Amazon US right now, so it doesn't seem like they've removed the discount because of slow sales; they usually discount the biggest sellers most because they make their profit from volume. I know this book is unique in its publication method and cost to print, but given Nathan's previous statements on here that he'd be shocked if Amazon didn't offer a discount equal to or greater than that for the original Modernist Cuisine (currently a 26% discount on Amazon), it seems to be a very strange situation. Even Barnes & Noble are offering a greater discount off list price (7%). I'm curious as to how much this is affecting sales of the book? I know I'm going to wait to see what happens over the longer term, especially considering how unusual the situation is.

I admit that cutesy names usually turn me off from recipes--I often won't read past the title. In my experience, most of the recipes with these names are no good and come from not-so-great sources (such as Rachael Ray: Why-the-Chicken-Crossed-the-Road Santa Fe-Tastic Tortilla Soup, My Oh Mahi, That's a Good Fish Taco, That's Shallota Flavor Spaghetti, Who Ya Callin' Chicken? Stuffed Sammie Pockets...yes, they're real). My (completely unproven) theory is that if you're spending that much time coming up with a "clever" name, you're compensating for something. The food should be able to stand for itself, no matter how dull the name. And I would never eat in a restaurant that had such titles on its menu.