kiwichef

Great to see genuine appreciation and respect for the dishhand busting his ass day in day out... they garner more respect from me than a suit clad GM ever would.

Guys like that tend to have a sixth sense about those things, knowing that if they just lay low for a while, they will be more than welcome to come back when the storm blows over. I really like your story, Mike. It reminds me, more than anything else, of a man with whom I work right now. The restaurant where I work has been open since 1978, built from bricks of the theatre where "Gone With The Wind" was first shown, after that theatre burned down. It stands on a busy streetcorner that has changed in myriad ways since its inception, and through that whole time, it has remained one of the busiest restaurants in the entire city. To this day, it is still one of the most profitable pieces of real estate in Atlanta. And there is one employee who has worked there since opening day. He's our dishwasher. Over the years, the company has rewarded him in numerous ways for his loyalty. He has received all sorts of gifts on his birthday and company anniversaries, and we've even put his name on the menu. He's our rock star. And I think that the company has their priorities in exactly the right place, because of this. I am friends with him, of course, and I talk to him every day. And even when he asks me ridiculous favors, I do them, and I never tell him what an annoying, persnickety old man he can be, at times. It's just a really, really precious thing to know him, I guess. Edited to bring this back to topic: I meant to say that one cannot forget to value the employees who do the work that the high-profile chefs might consider to be "less worthy." You have to respect all of the people in this line of work who do the jobs that you would not want to do, and take pride in doing it, even if it's banging out a hundred plates of eggs in an hour, every morning, year after year. It's good to see articles that show an appreciation for that. ←

Japanese cuisine, ingredients, and techniques are major elements of fusion, are they not? Japan is in Northeast Asia, not Southeast. ← I think you answered your own question here. ← I'm using a question as a polite way of pointing out the erroneousness of identifying fusion as solely a mix of Southeast Asian and European cuisines. Anyway, perhaps your definition works outside of North America and Continental Europe, but it certainly doesn't apply to some of the places known for fusion cuisine in this part of the world. Union Pacific in New York (which closed a couple of years ago), for example, was heavily influenced by Japanese cuisine. ← I agree, it may be erroneous. As a matter of interest I just read an article in the NYTimes describing the food at Public as Global Fusion. Public is the NY restaurant of NZ'r Peter Gordon, who is credited with bringing fusion cuisine to London.

Japanese cuisine, ingredients, and techniques are major elements of fusion, are they not? Japan is in Northeast Asia, not Southeast. ← I think you answered your own question here.

As it orginated there, I do not understand your doubt. I have seen no doubt in America. ← Really? I must be reading upside down. LOL

This "fusion" thing has opened the proverbial can of worms. It seems in America there is some doubt as to what fusion cuisine is. This is not the case in Australia/NZ/ or London, where it is rightly or wrongly identified as a mix of South East Asian and European cuisines. Widely used, not really. Understood, yep. My understanding is that its not a coincidental mix of flavours, but a purposeful contrast. When done right it can be amazing, but it can also be contrived and banal. Success rides with failure lurking.

You were trying to make a point about France and you used the example of Ramsay and the English public to prove it. So if this is not generalization about countries, what is it? As for the ratings, I think you should consider the dynamics of modern media and trash TV without distinction of country and origin before you decide Ramsay's success could only be a British thing and not a French thing. There are TV chef shows in France too. And, may I add, this is only one chef show. Of course they are highly respected, nobody said they weren't. Respected just the way they are. This only confirms what I wrote and now you're shifting the subject. ← Ramsey's success is global, and not limited to the British, that's why I purposely lft the British and Britain out of my text. I'm aware they have tv in France. Nora!

Dear kiwichef, As I wrote, I suspect you haven't much of an experience of the French food scene — present and past — and that you may be building your assertions on partial knowledge. For one Gordon Ramsay who gets away with such language, oh well — I'll grant you a couple others bratty insular chefs too; how many courteous and decent chefs in the UK? Hundreds? Thousands? So please don't make it a British general rule. By the way you seem to imply that the British actually enjoy brutality and foul language to the point of considering them normal features in a chef? I think it is a strange idea but I'll let you have it. And this idea of "etiquette in a french kitchen" sounds no less strange and I'm sorry if I'm about to shatter some illusions here. Though there are many courteous and polite French chefs, those who happen to be less courteous are not exactly inhibited in public, and the public is more or less used to that — at worst indifferent, at best amused. Years ago, when Jacques Maximin was at the Negresco, he once appeared in the dining room saying out loud to an old lady who hadn't enjoyed the meal: "So Madame didn't like it? Well, madame, je m'en bats les couilles !" Not an isolated example, in a way that's how we like our chefs (in small doses though). ← I didnt mention the British, just Mr Ramsey, so there was no generalisation inferred. The media and public enjoy the foul language. Just look at the ratings of his show. As previously mentioned I havent worked in France, however my peers tell me that french chefs, as a general rule are highly respected. Maybe its all hogwash.

Yep there is Soy Milk in NZ....for the vegans mostly. I prefer full cream milk. ← There is another thread here that you should avail yourself of: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=97854&hl= You are welcome. Anne ← Wow, glad I drink full cream.

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that. That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success. I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts. We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling. ← Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours. I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source. I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica. Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate. ← Upon reflection, he must have been born earlier than 1981. It seems he likes to hide his age, but IMO he should be proud of what he has accomplished in his tender years. I was born in 1963, and am only 43, and my birth post dates fusion cuisine in the US. Are you honestly trying to say that Peter Gordon has had more influence on "fusion" cuisine throughout the world than Wolfgang Puck and his predeccessor? And, although he started young, there are certainly labor laws in NZ that would have prevented him from slaving in the kitchen before a certain age. There is an index to Tex-Mex under fusion. Tex-Mex includes MesoAmerican food in the cuisine. Very old MesoAmerican, when you consider the tamal and the tortillia. ← Yes of course fusion would include Tex-Mex, but I guess the question is what is "Fusion Cuisine" and I have always understood it to be a mix of South East Asian and European cuisines, and yes, I'm suggesting NZ and Australia and the leading protagonists. So, this being the case Tex-Mex would not be categorized as Fusion Cuisine, but it would be a fusion of cuisines. ← This may or may not be correct, but per your comments it seems that in Australia/New Zealand, 'Fusion cusine' specifically means a certain type of modern fusion of Asian and European cuisine. I think in the US that would be called 'Asian fusion" cuisine; just one of the new fusion cuisines that have become popular since the 1970's. I think this difference in terminology may have caused some o the misunderstanding above. For example, in the US there is also 'new' Latino fusion cuisine, Carribean fusion cuisine (primarily in Florida) and also 'new' Southwestern cuisine which is fusion of Mexican, Southwestern and Asian ingredients and often includes seafood not indigenous to the Southwest. And these are all distinct from Tex-Mex! Also, there as mentioned above there has been plenty of 'fusion' cuisine in the US since it's inception but I think it was not typically named as "fusion" pre-1970 or so. I think the fusion happened more slowly and less self-consciously before that date and it typically used "American' ingredients or what was easily grown or sourced back then in the US. Some examples would be Italian-American or German-American cuisine. In the first case, until the last few decades, Italian-American cooking in the US was known and thought of as just "Italian" by most people although it was primarily an American take on southern Italian cuisine. With German-American cooking the fusion happened so long ago that most of the dishes of German origin or inspiration are thought of as completely American. ← Thanks for the clarification...makes sense.

Sad. My fetishes have nothing to do with food. Oh well. ← You could try!!

What issue is that, exactly?I provocatively suggested American Cuisine was made up of hamburgers, pizza, and hotdogs...or fastfood, and the comments followed. So the issue was "is it"I am puzzled, you mention New York pastrami, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and a few other things that you enjoyed here, yet still cling to the "fast food is American Cuisine" cliche?I said: Just to pile on a bit I'd add Tex-Mex, Cajun and Creole, New England clam chowder, Southern Maryland stuffed ham, corn on the cob, blueberry cobbler, tamales, BBQ (Eastern North Carolina, Western NC, Kansas City, Memphis and Texas styles), collard greens, Cobb salad, and the Toll House cookie... You disagree? (er, shouldn't this be in the American cusine thread? Unless we want to discuss the French influence on all of the above.) ← Agree

Yep there is Soy Milk in NZ....for the vegans mostly. I prefer full cream milk.

there you are Karen, the title for your first book "A feminist defence of fast food", or "In defence of fast food, by a feminist chef". Or something. I'll buy it, and I bet kiwichef will too. ← Funny...I will definitely buy it...how bout "Fetishes of a fast food feminist"

there you are Karen, the title for your first book "A feminist defence of fast food", or "In defence of fast food, by a feminist chef". Or something. I'll buy it, and I bet kiwichef will too. ←

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that. That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success. I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts. We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling. ← Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours. I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source. I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica. Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate. ← Upon reflection, he must have been born earlier than 1981. It seems he likes to hide his age, but IMO he should be proud of what he has accomplished in his tender years. I was born in 1963, and am only 43, and my birth post dates fusion cuisine in the US. Are you honestly trying to say that Peter Gordon has had more influence on "fusion" cuisine throughout the world than Wolfgang Puck and his predeccessor? And, although he started young, there are certainly labor laws in NZ that would have prevented him from slaving in the kitchen before a certain age. There is an index to Tex-Mex under fusion. Tex-Mex includes MesoAmerican food in the cuisine. Very old MesoAmerican, when you consider the tamal and the tortillia. ← Yes of course fusion would include Tex-Mex, but I guess the question is what is "Fusion Cuisine" and I have always understood it to be a mix of South East Asian and European cuisines, and yes, I'm suggesting NZ and Australia and the leading protagonists. So, this being the case Tex-Mex would not be categorized as Fusion Cuisine, but it would be a fusion of cuisines.

I thought I had made myself clear on that one. I was addressing that to kiwichef. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. ← Hi there, I've read the feedback and respond as follows. Firstly I've travelled extensively throughout the states, from east to west and north to south. My fondest food memories include, Chicago pizza, New York pastrami sandwiches, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and Texas BBQ spare ribs. I also enjoyed lots of great hamburgers, and magnificent ceasar salads. But if I were asked to define American Cuisine I would be left searching, and so it seems would others. Nice to see I provoked such vigorous debate. As far as the comments from the fast food feminist. Why just women, don't men cook? But that's not the point is it. Food is life, to be enjoyed and savoured. Fast food is purchased at a sit on your ass drive through, scoffed in heavy traffic, and washed down with a Big Gulp of coke....a billion calories later, you feel just great right. Proud of fast food culture? No way Jose. I hate travelling around the world and seeing a dirty great M in the distance, for me its abhorrent. I remember going to Disneyworld and seeing these fat families all over the place, gorging at fast food joints, and I felt sick. So sad. So very sad. Whose taking responsilbilty. Great to see the jibe about NZ cuisine too. Fair enough. For that writers information, New Zealand was colonised by the English, so alot of our food is English. Lately however it has a very asian/english mix, which has been touted as Fusion cuisine. The origins of which lie with Peter Gordon, a talented NZ chef with restaurants in Auckland, London and New York. But our culture is Maori, and through our indigenous roots we have a largely undiscovered cuisine, rich language, wicked music and history. Perhaps you might discover it one day. Our lamb of course is exported to the world, as are our dairy products, and wine. Talking wine, I saw another enlightened writer take a snide at our vinos and in particular our Savignon Blancs. But why just Savignon Blancs? He forgot our wonderful Merlots, Pinot Noirs, Pinot Gris, Chardonnay's, Syrahs and the list goes on. You must try them as well, dear writer. Cheers Rob ← I suppose that if you'd written this in the first place you might have sounded less twit-ish on your original post. However, the fact that you actually admit that there are fine bits of American cooking and still embrace the "fat American" and McDonalds "supersize me" stereotypes like a cheap hooker on a drunken payday suggests, however, that your only agenda is a little slagging. Fair enough, but it weakens your case. Regarding the SB's, the other wines (not to say that they aren't worthy) haven't really washed over our shores. I will keep an eye out. Fusion, btw, has many fathers. baaaaa -Chas PS. You should edit out the possesive apostrophe on "chardonnay's" ← Thanks for your comments Chas. I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue. I don't agree with your comments regarding Fusion. As outlined below with Annecross I firmly beleive that the Antipodes is the home of today's Fusion Cuisine. It's worthy of note that Wikipidia is made up of comments from users, so it is in no way definitive. Lastly, apologies for the grammatical error. Cheers Rob Possessive by the way has 4 s's. OOPs. ← Americans are a people, America is a nation. “due to there respect for chefs” - I assume you meant their not there. The only famous Kiwi I can think of is Peter Jackson and he looks to be a member of the fast food nation. I have had several bottles of NZ SB and one PN, and all were quite nice. NZ lamb is excellent, but so is our Colorado. Is fusion always deliberate or is there variety that is organic in its assimilation? In other words do we call what this fellow in NZ is doing, or what Puck did here in the U.S., fusion and then in the same breath call Carribean food or that of southern Louisiana. Is this why French food endures, because of its development over time with myriad influences, by folks who took this development seriously. ← Yes of course I meant their....dear dear me LOL 2 other famous kiwis for you: Edmund Hillary who was the first man to climb Mt Everest, and Russell Crowe (born in NZ lives in Aussie), and of course there are many other famous kiwis, including the bird. Peter Jackson by the way has shed 20 kilos, so he is a different man these days.

What issue is that, exactly?Is anyone else amused by the argument over "fusion," originally a combination of Asian and - you guessed it - French food? That's what editors are for. ← I provocatively suggested American Cuisine was made up of hamburgers, pizza, and hotdogs...or fastfood, and the comments followed. So the issue was "is it". I'm not sure that Fusion is a mix of French but European encompassing French and South East Asian.

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that. That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success. I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts. We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling. ← Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours. I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source. I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica. Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate.

I thought I had made myself clear on that one. I was addressing that to kiwichef. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. ← Hi there, I've read the feedback and respond as follows. Firstly I've travelled extensively throughout the states, from east to west and north to south. My fondest food memories include, Chicago pizza, New York pastrami sandwiches, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and Texas BBQ spare ribs. I also enjoyed lots of great hamburgers, and magnificent ceasar salads. But if I were asked to define American Cuisine I would be left searching, and so it seems would others. Nice to see I provoked such vigorous debate. As far as the comments from the fast food feminist. Why just women, don't men cook? But that's not the point is it. Food is life, to be enjoyed and savoured. Fast food is purchased at a sit on your ass drive through, scoffed in heavy traffic, and washed down with a Big Gulp of coke....a billion calories later, you feel just great right. Proud of fast food culture? No way Jose. I hate travelling around the world and seeing a dirty great M in the distance, for me its abhorrent. I remember going to Disneyworld and seeing these fat families all over the place, gorging at fast food joints, and I felt sick. So sad. So very sad. Whose taking responsilbilty. Great to see the jibe about NZ cuisine too. Fair enough. For that writers information, New Zealand was colonised by the English, so alot of our food is English. Lately however it has a very asian/english mix, which has been touted as Fusion cuisine. The origins of which lie with Peter Gordon, a talented NZ chef with restaurants in Auckland, London and New York. But our culture is Maori, and through our indigenous roots we have a largely undiscovered cuisine, rich language, wicked music and history. Perhaps you might discover it one day. Our lamb of course is exported to the world, as are our dairy products, and wine. Talking wine, I saw another enlightened writer take a snide at our vinos and in particular our Savignon Blancs. But why just Savignon Blancs? He forgot our wonderful Merlots, Pinot Noirs, Pinot Gris, Chardonnay's, Syrahs and the list goes on. You must try them as well, dear writer. Cheers Rob ← I suppose that if you'd written this in the first place you might have sounded less twit-ish on your original post. However, the fact that you actually admit that there are fine bits of American cooking and still embrace the "fat American" and McDonalds "supersize me" stereotypes like a cheap hooker on a drunken payday suggests, however, that your only agenda is a little slagging. Fair enough, but it weakens your case. Regarding the SB's, the other wines (not to say that they aren't worthy) haven't really washed over our shores. I will keep an eye out. Fusion, btw, has many fathers. baaaaa -Chas PS. You should edit out the possesive apostrophe on "chardonnay's" ← Thanks for your comments Chas. I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue. I don't agree with your comments regarding Fusion. As outlined below with Annecross I firmly beleive that the Antipodes is the home of today's Fusion Cuisine. It's worthy of note that Wikipidia is made up of comments from users, so it is in no way definitive. Lastly, apologies for the grammatical error. Cheers Rob Possessive by the way has 4 s's. OOPs.

Dear, even if you want to use the contemporary definition, you simply have to give it to the US. Here's your research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_cuisine From the citation: Fusion cuisine combines elements of various culinary traditions while not fitting specifically into any. The term generally refers to the innovations in many contemporary restaurant cuisines since the 1970s. This type of restaurant's success depends on a number of factors. Among these are: * Clientele's (or prospective clientele's) cultural diversity * Clientele's travel patterns and experiences. * Clientele's culinary sophistication and openness to new eating experiences. These factors have made this type of cuisine accepted and popular in places like California and in large metropolitan areas. California Chef Wolfgang Puck is known as one of the pioneers of fusion cuisine. However, his restaurant "Chinois" was named after the term attributed to Richard Wing, who in the 1960s combined French and Chinese cooking at the former Imperial Dynasty restaurant in Hanford, California. A menu sampling from menu of an American-European-Japanese restaurant in California might include the following items: * Sake cocktails * Salad with crisp nori topping, and a miso-cilantro vinaigrette dressing * Rock shrimp dumplings * Eel, lettuce and tomato sushi handroll * Poached tofu [edit] See also * Tex-Mex cuisine * California cuisine ← Okay...I accept the wikipedia definition however I'm not sure it's that contemporary. Below is a london restaurant website guide definition: Fusion Food A guide to fusion food, fusion cuisine and fusion restaurants in London Fusion food sometimes gets bad press from critics who claim it is too complicated and pretentious and that many people don't know what it is. Revolutionary Fusion Food Fusion cooking has emanated from the desire to make food more diverse and interesting and to ignite excitement in new ingredients and fresh combinations of ingredients. The kitchens of Australia and New Zealand are responsible for fusion cuisine. A combination of classically trained chefs, fresh local produce and close links with South East Asia led to the development of a new approach to cooking. Innovative Fusion Restaurants Striving to break away from the norm of European cuisine meant that the chefs focused rigorously on the rules for different combinations as they made flavour and excitement their main goal. Fresh Ingredients The main principle of fusion cooking is to rely on the freshest ingredients. The freshest fish and best organic meats and vegetables are crucial. In addition, rather than having to rely solely on local and European flavours, the fusion chef has a more extensive larder to draw on. Fusion food ranges from Asian staples such as jasmine rice and udon noodles to rare spices like Szechuan peppercorns and galangal - variety is the spice of life for fusion restaurants. Fusion Food in the UK Peter Gordon is often hailed as the person who introduced fusion cooking to the UK. He grew up in New Zealand, learned his trade in Melbourne and spent the next few years travelling through Nepal, India and South East Asia. On his return he launched the Sugar Club restaurant in Wellington and in 1996 brought the idea to London, starting off in Notting Hill and subsequently moving to Soho in 1998. Fusion food can be sampled not only at specific fusion restaurants across the capital, many London restaurants now include some fusion food on the menu even if it is not the overriding cuisine, such is its popularity.

Rob, Please take a moment and consider what you have written. You are simply going to have to give "fusion" cuisine to the US. It was factually accomplished in the US several hundred years before Peter Gordon was born. Our indigenous culture is Native American, and the US has not only incorporated the foods and cuisine of the Native American into our diet but the culture. ← Hi Fusion Cuisine as far as I know was invented sometime in the 70's, largely due to a mix of Californian and Japanese cuisines by Wolfgang Puck. However, NZ Fusion or Antipodean Fusion combines many different Asian flavours and Peter Gordon is often quoted as the leading light. 700 years ago? Don't think so. ← I said several hundred years ago, and Wolfgang Puck just gave it a name. It was moving along quite healthily in the US in urban areas such as NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Texas and other areas. In fact, it would be accurate to term all American cuisine since the "discovery" of the American continent as "fusion" because it is just that. If you insist on an Asian component, you will find that in the Carribbean in the 1600s. Before that, it was MesoAmerican. ← With respect Austalia and New Zealand are widely recognised as the proponents of "Fusion Cuisine"largely due to their proximity to South East Asia. With a little research I think you will quickly discover this. Sure, American cuisine may be a mix of cuisines, but it isn't recognised as Fusion. Fusion Cuisine geographically relates to South East Asia, not the Carribean, or MesoAmerica. You say "it was factually accomplished" . Where? You say"consider what you have written". With respect I may ask you to do the same.

Rob, Please take a moment and consider what you have written. You are simply going to have to give "fusion" cuisine to the US. It was factually accomplished in the US several hundred years before Peter Gordon was born. Our indigenous culture is Native American, and the US has not only incorporated the foods and cuisine of the Native American into our diet but the culture. ← Hi Fusion Cuisine as far as I know was invented sometime in the 70's, largely due to a mix of Californian and Japanese cuisines by Wolfgang Puck. However, NZ Fusion or Antipodean Fusion combines many different Asian flavours and Peter Gordon is often quoted as the leading light. 700 years ago? Don't think so.

Nice quote you found, dear kiwi. I don't claim to have triumphs. How about you? There's been a bit of name calling in your posts. Factual evidence has been presented that there are other things here in the US, and other ways of thinking about things. You might take a look at how you have spoken to and about people ("fast food feminist" - cute!) in your posts and see if you might wish to respond in some sort of defense if spoken to similarly. Oh. Cheers! ← Dear Carrot, My tone reflects that of others in feedback. "can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"

That's funny. This "fast food feminist" is one who threw away her own mother's ardent feminism to marry twice, support one husband financially, then the other by cooking each day, fine meals for him to eat. This fast food feminist also was an executive chef at one of the top five investment banks on Wall Street, feeding the partners of said place. . . who knew French food, five star restaurants all over world, and expected what they ate with their guests to be of a rather "haute" order. Then this fast food feminist became a VP in the operations division of that place, and had the task assigned of feeding the 3000 employees as manager of the subcontractor. Did the employees get to eat "haute" or "slow" each day? Did they even want to? Was it financially or operationally feasible to try to do this? If it were done, would they appreciate and applaud it? I doubt it. Oh, plus, I'm not fat at all. Your reach and your grasp do not meet the extended size of your tongue. You are young, perhaps. Perhaps in time your reach and grasp will grow. ← [/quo Dear fast food feminist, A better person than I once wrote something to the effect: "one who has to espouse ones triumphs has none at all" Young or old, this writer's comments are not aimed at you dear carrot, but fast food culture in general. I couldn't care less what your waist line looks like. Americans are the most OBESE nation in the world and the the protaganists of fast food globalisation, but it seems you missed this point, and went off on some other tangent about your past.