jackbr4

i must say that my favorite is the over looked hangar steak - they didnt call it the "butchers cut" for nothing. grilled on cooked on the stove top, it is one of the most flavorful pieces of meat out there. also, beef cheeks, when braised to perfection, are my other favorite!

I agree (although not being from SF). I would have liked to see Manresa a little higher. Wasn't Cyrus mentioned too? Just out of curiosity - what Bay area restaurants would you have liked to have seen on the list that didn't make it, jackbr4? u.e. ← ulterior epicure - i think there were a few that could have made it, the ritz carlton dining room san francisco is pretty spectacular from both a food and service perspective and i also think quince and a16 could have made the list. that being said, i am almost happier they didn't - it's hard enough to get a table at any of those places as it is!

there is a great place on polk and vallejo called tablespoon (www.tablespoonsf.com) which is open until midnight - when i used to live in that neighborhood, it was easily the only think open after 9:30. the late night eating really is tough to come by here. . .

the best thing that the guides, lists, ratings, etc., are good for is starting dialogue, because everyone is so passionate about the subject and their two or three favorite places that got left out (me included - A16 for exmaple). i agree with melkor that i hope this guide will help to up the ante a bit in the bay area and increase the overall quality of the food. but at best, like most other ratings or list, they are all subjective and controversial, but that's what makes them great and gets the blood rising.

The bay area food culture is dominated by home cooking - if you can't duplicate the dishes served at Zuni, you can't cook. Home cooking isn't what the Michelin guide is about, nor is it about ethnic dives. The local and organic movement most certainly didn't start in the bay area - the movement is only noteworthy here because it's different from what people have been doing in Podunk Arkansas. It's taken for granted across Europe. The biodynamic movement is based there, countless multi-star restaurants across France are as ingredient driven if not more so than bay area restaurants. There are dozens of restaurants in the bay area I love to visit that didn't get stars, that doesn't mean they aren't worth visiting. The Slanted Door is no more deserving of a star than Zuni or Delfina - none of them got one, none of them should. ← i see your point, the tough reality is that people will look to the guide to give them the best of they bay area, and i don't think it accomplishes that in many different regards. it's not so much about what guide is intended to do, but more what people perceive it to be.

i think in principle the ratings aren't relative to other restaurants, but i can't think for a moment that the people putting together the final list don't think about it - it's human nature. also, i think part of the problem is that we aren't in france - we are in the bay area, where the food culture is much different. I have eaten both here, and in france, quite a bit, and the food here is much more diverse. let me be the first to say that i love french food - i grew up on it, my dad was a french trained chef - but the michelin guide was created to judge french cuisine, and when you apply those standards to the cuisine of northern california, i don't think they work quite as well.

michael bauer from the chronicle had a entry about this (read it here) - the gist of it is that having the french laundry in the bay area pretty much ruins everyone else's chances of getting a 3 star ranking. it's an interesting thought (i expound on it more in my own blog posting) - if the french laundry is a 3, and it is far better than every other restuarant in the bay area (i am not saying it is true, just putting it our there for discussion), then maybe it makes sense that most other restaurants are a 1. . .

maybe it's because i am a bit biased having grown up in san francisco, but i was surpised there weren't a few more SF restaurants on the list. the style may be different from our east coast brethern, but it seems like we get the compulsary nods for chez pannise, the french laundry, and occasionaly zuni cafe, and then the list moves on. .. .

just as an update, she was featured in the sf chronicle sunday style section yesterday, which portrayed his as the ultimate foodie. i think her rant has spoiled me on her forever, since i was so annoyed with her, i couldn't finish reading the article. here's the link to the article

You're eating dinner at a 'white tablecloth' establishment, something you do once, or maybe a twice a month, and you notice another diner sour-faced and complaining throughout a meal that you, in your humble opinion, think is just fine. Who know who I'm talking about - and you are mortified and embarrassed for them, feel bad for the waiter, and say to your partner, 'if i ever get like that, shoot me.' seems like the diner in this case was nora ephron - it just seems like one of those situations where nothing would have pleased her - some people just find fault in everything and are unhappy, and when you are being served and cooked for by others, if you try hard enough, you can always find something. . . .

i must go with <a href="http://www.codcheeks.com" target=_blank>www.codcheeks.com</a> - it's new, but you have to love the name!

i agree that the quality of the bird is very important. i live in san francisco so have access to organic meat, and in this case it was a 5lb bird, and after 55 minutes, came at 140 degrees. thanks for the link to the recipe - i eager to try it. looks like something that will be a bit more time consuming to do than letting a bird alone for 50 minutes to roast then eat!

i'm new to egullet, and thought i write my first post about the basics, and i though what meal is one of the most basis, but every cook has thier own recipe that they swear by than a roast chicken? i've tried quite a few - buttering the skin, adding a lemon and onion to the cavity for cooking, even injecting things under the skin. the chickens always came out good, but never great. i finally decided to try the thomas keller method from his 'bouchon cookbook', which is: 1) wash and dry the chicken 2) add salt and pepper to the cavity 3) truss the bird 4) add kosher salt (at least 2 tablespoons) and pepper to the outside of the bird (i cheated here and salted it, left it in the refrigerator for 24 hours, and then re-salted agai before cooking) 5) roast in a saute pan at 450 for 50-60 minutes depending on the size of the bird. 6) remove from oven - add minced thyme to the chicken drippings and baste the bird. 7) let stand 15 minutes on a cutting board, carve, slather meat with butter, and serve with dijon mustard. i've done this a few times now, and the bird always turns out perfect (you can see a picture <A href="http://www.codcheeks.com/2006/08/cod-cheeks-test-kitchen-roast-chicken.html" target=_blank>here </a>). ok - so now i want to know, who has a better way?