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susanfnp

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Everything posted by susanfnp

  1. The statement “I think people use it because they don’t really know what to expect or how to read their doughs” and the terms “crutch” and “safety net” do not do much to suggest that you see the issue as merely one of preference. Rather, they suggest that those who use commercial yeast just don’t “get it.” Even if it was not your intention to imply this, perhaps you can see in retrospect how your comments could be interpreted in this way by reasonable people? As one who does sometimes consciously choose to use yeast in combination with sourdough for certain reasons (although I am perfectly capable of making a fine straight-up sourdough), I am growing rather weary of this sort of sentiment. That said, my response was unnecessarily snippy and I apologize.
  2. ← I'm not qute sure I understand this. But perhaps the quotation here is taken too much out of context and there isn't quite enough information provided to understand completely. In itself, it doesn't really explain the difference between what Calvel is describing and a true sourdough. Maybe I'm missing something. Anyway, yes, it's standard for many many professional bakers to add a bit of commercial yeast to their sourdoughs, and even more standard, I think, for people who mistrust or are fearful of the sourdough process to use commercial yeast. It's a safeguard, I think, having done it that way myself for awhile. It provides a sort of safety net for not having a really good grasp of how your doughs work. I think people use it because they don't really know what to expect or how to read their doughs. And so because they want everything to be more or less predictable from the git-go, they use commercial yeast, just to be safe. Otherwise, will the dough made from a sourdough culture really rise? Will it behave properly within the time frame they've learned from working with doughs using commercial yeast? It's all so iffy and loosey goosey, at least while you're learning. So, easier to throw in some commercial yeast, just to be sure. From my own experience, it's absolutely not the case that a sourdough bread with commercial yeast is more flavorful than a straight sourdough. And in fact, I'd say just the reverse. It may be a case, rather, that one has developed a preference over the years for the particular flavor that commercial yeast yields. I understand that. I used to feel that way as well. I don't today. And in fact I don't really like the flavor of breads with commercial yeast and prefer straight sourdoughs altogether. At the same time, what you're describing with your own experience may have something to do with your own sourdough culture, its maturity, the way you care for it and so forth. Is it a new culture? Have you used it for long? How often do you refresh it? Those sorts of issues will have a huge influence on the flavor of your sourdough breads. ← My purpose in quoting this from Calvel was simply to observe that, in his view, the addition of baker's yeast plus levain (sourdough) produces bread that has different qualities from that using levain alone, but that these qualities are not necessarily undesirable, and this is a perfectly acceptable and accepted method. I must respectfully disagree with your assertion that the addition of baker's yeast is done only by those who do not have a robust culture, or do not understand or are fearful of the sourdough process, or whose palates have not evolved sufficiently to appreciate "pure" sourdough and disdain commercial yeast. (In other words, by those who are somehow less experienced or knowledgeable, or lazier, or who possess less culinary sophistication, than you.) One hallmark of a truly good baker is an understanding of the range of methods, ingredients, and tools at his/her disposal and how use of each will affect the final product. Sometimes a bread with a strong sourdough flavor is desired, and sometimes one wants something else. Knowing how to achieve a range of results makes one a better baker, in my estimation, than being wedded to one particular method and the resulting breads that fall within a fine but limited range on the flavor spectrum. Your personal preference for only "true" sourdough is just that: personal preference. (Or perhaps your lack of success in producing flavorful bread with with commercial yeast derives from just "not having a really good grasp of how [those] doughs work" ) Commercial yeasted breads, or hybrid sourdough/yeast breads, are not less flavorful, they just have a different flavor, which may be preferred by some, disliked by others, and loved and appreciated by still others as part of the vast and complex range of flavors that all fall under the rubric of "good bread." If I may again be permitted to quote Calvel (p. 47): "As to the controversial question of bread obtained by leavening with a levain in comparison to bread made by fermentation with baker's yeast, I would like to affirm that both can achieve an optimal quality level. The first will possess a stronger, sharper taste, with a very slight acid nature. The second will have a finer, more delicate taste, and the aroma and taste elements derived from wheat will have a greater presence. ... if they are made methodically, with all the necessary care, bread from levain is neither better, nor more noble, than bread made from baker's yeast. Whenever the culture of starter sponges and their maintenance are properly carried out, and whenever the stages of alcoholic fermentation are appropriately and correctly observed, both types of bread merit the same respect and the same consideration by their high quality."
  3. (I'm coming out of lurkdom to say) I completely agree. Professor Raymond Calvel says, in The Taste of Bread (p. 41):
  4. Overproofing or shaping that is not tight enough can also lead to slashing trouble.
  5. I have to agree with the consensus: go for the stand mixer, with a spiral (as opposed to C-shaped) dough hook if possible, and the convection oven. You will have a lot more flexibility with the mixer. I rarely use convection for bread but it's great for other baking.
  6. That "special section in your brain" will naturally develop as you bake more bread. The books you mentioned are all wonderful, but there is no substitute for just getting in there and baking, baking, baking! Each and every loaf you bake, both successes and not-such-successes, will help you learn, even if you don't consciously know what you did right or wrong. I feel like my bread baking has come really far from when I first started. I've done a lot of reading and taken some classes, but I do think the best teacher is just hands-on experimentation. I've not had many "aha" moments, just a gradual building of intuition, confidence, and skill. I echo what CajunGirl said about never stopping learning, always striving for a better loaf. Good luck! Susan http://www.wildyeastblog.com
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