TallDrinkOfWater

Admin: threads merged. I'm looking for suggestions for a decent mixing brandy that doesn't cost too much. I have several cognacs that I enjoy quite a bit, but they tend to be far too expensive to mix into (most) cocktails, especially on an everyday basis. The catch is that I live in Washington state, which has state-run liquor stores and which imposes unfortunately-high taxes on most spirits. I can order from out of state, of course, or pick up something on a trip, but I really want a regular local option. My goal is to find something no more than $25/btl. Here's a list of everything from the state liquor control board's inventory that matches "brandy" or "cognac" (excluding flavored brandies, non-grape eau de vies, and the like), and that is less than US$25 per 750mL. Price -- Brand $24.90 -- ARARAT 3 STAR 3 YR BRANDY $19.65 -- CHRISTIAN BROS XO RARE RES BRANDY $19.95 -- FELIPE II BRANDY $24.95 -- PESHTERSKA BRANDY $16.40 -- ST REMY XO NAPOLEON BRANDY $12.95 -- VENDOME VSOP BRANDY $15.70 -- ANSAC VS COGNAC $23.95 -- CHALFONTE VSOP COGNAC $20.95 -- GAUTIER VSOP COGNAC Any obvious winners in the group? Anything to specifically avoid?

[sigh] Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, we walked into Harry's... (apologies to Humphrey Bogart) Harry's Bar. Home of the Bellini. And carpaccio. In Venice, which is icing on the cake. Romance, history, cocktails... Oh wait, What I really mean is: pre-built martinis (which I think were straight gin) in tiny tumblers that were pre-poured and stored in a freezer drawer. No mixology, no flair, no vermouth (as far as I could tell), no garnish. Certainly no bitters. Worst. Martini. Ever. Even Hotel Button, where I couldn't convey even the basic concept, was better than this, because at least they were trying to get me what we wanted. Harry's -- fun as it was *despite* the "cocktails" and the price, simply because it was in Venice and I was there with my ever-so-lovely wife -- was really among the most-disappointing of the bars we've visited. Oh well. It was still fun!

Basically a 30-foot-tall Roomba. My theory is that the only reason the world isn't ruled by Cheese-sweeping Robotic Overlords is the short length of their extension cords.

At the Hotel Button in Parma, the bar (open 24 hours) was manned by the same elderly gentleman who worked the front desk. He spoke about 2 less words in English than I spoke in Italian, which made both checking in and ordering drinks "interesting". Up to this point I'd had pretty good luck asking for a "martini-gin" (or "martini-vodka" for LMF). Occasionally an "American Martini" was the way to go. In the Hotel Button, though, somewhat frazzled by the day and in search of a stiff drink while we unpacked and got ready to go out to eat, those met with blank stares. I finally got him to pour about 3 fingers of gin [bombay, maybe...don't recall] into a water glass, followed by a finger or so of Martini & Rosso Dry from one of the three M&R 1Liter bottles they had chilling and obviously frequently used. After a bit of effort, I even managed to convey the need for a little ice (two small cubes, I think). The vodka situation was a bit tougher. I thought vodka was a fairly universal concept, but no. The term really meant nothing to the man. He finally started conferring in rapid Italian with an even older gentleman whose days apparently consist of sitting on a couch in the lobby of the hotel. They talked for a bit, and the oder man suddenly showed comprehension and got himself, with much effort, off the couch and shuffled through a door and into a back room. I felt bad for making him get up, but at the same time was relieved to see I'd finally succeeded. Three or four minutes later, he came out with a bottle of homemade limoncello (or lemon limoncino, or limoncetto -- never did figure out which regional name was appropriate to which area) and proceeded to try to our it into a glass already containing vermouth. Fortunately, being approximately 150 years younger than him, I managed to intercept the pour and explain, more or less, that that was NOT what I wanted. The best I can figure is that vodka is really only used in some areas in the making of limoncello, and isn't really a standalone mixer. Anyway, LMF ended up getting a very strong, fairly warm gin martini in a cheap water glass.

We started tonight with a couple of autumnal/holidayish cocktails: Falling Leaves (courtesy Audrey Saunders) for Little Ms Foodie, and the Réveillon (courtesy Chuck @ gumbopages.com) for me. I used Clear Creek's Eau-de-Vie de Pomme in the Réveillon; I have some Laird's Bonded as well, and next time I'll use that to compare and contrast. Also, I made use of homemade pimento dram and a homemade variation on Robert Hess's House Bitters. We followed that with El Floridita Daiquiris, using Havana Club Añejo Blanco and Luxardo Maraschino. Mmmmm. And now I'm thinking about what to have for a night-cap.

Last night, through inadvertently combining a couple of recipes in my head while trying out Benedictine, I used lime instead of lemon in a Monk cocktail. It turned out quite well. Herbal, but not in the same overly-rich way that chartreuese-based drinks can be. Very crisp and refreshing.

I'm just curious about the differences between the Vinum line and the Vinum Extreme line. They are both machine made and are roughly similar in price. The Extreme line seems to have more of a "bowed out" shaped. Is this just an asthetic difference, or is there also a functional difference? Are some wines better suited to one line, and other wines to the other glass line? Thanks! ← The difference, for me, is entirely aesthetic. For the flutes, I refer the classic simplicity of the Vinum shape. For the other wine glasses, I like the more-modern "flair" of the Vinum Extreme line. (I also just bought 4 of the Vinum Extreme martini glasses, which are gorgeous and more interesting, to me, than the standard V-shapes). Yes, the Sommeliers line is really nice (and hand-blown), though interestingly the Vintage Champagne glass in that line is an almost identical shape to that of the Champagne glass in the Vinum line. I think we've only lost one glass ever to shipping from Amazon (and they quickly replaced it); losses during hand-washing have been much higher. Household rule now is never to wash glasses the night we've been drinking from them!

I'm personally very fond of Riedel's "Vinum" line of champagne glasses. You can buy two of them for $34 right now... (note that they make several other styles; this one happens to be my favorite for champagne, even though I prefer the "Vinum Extreme" for wine glasses). In general, you [probably] want lead crystal, not glass -- many manufacturers make both, so make sure you know what you're ordering. Well-known high-end makers of crystal drinkware include Riedel (rhymes with "needle"), Schott-Zwiesel, Spiegelau (now owned by Riedel), and Stölzle, though there are plenty of others. If you want crystal but prefer to stay away from the lead, several make alternatives; Schott-Zwiesel uses titanium in theirs, for instance.

...you've ever asked yourself "what would Audrey do?" (Henceforth known as WWAD) ...you can instantly answer the question "Doc's, Gary's, or Dave's?" ...you've ever spent time wondering a) where you'd put a Kold-Draft machine in your house and b) how you'd justify it to your spouse/SO. ...you're disappointed that your current freezer only goes to -6F. ...you think that, while not the worst thing, a bar's selection of Tanqueray, Tanqueray 10, Bombay, Bombay Sapphire, and Hendricks is predictable, unimaginative, and ultimately disappointing. ...you have more than one type of cocktail stirring spoon so that depending on type of cocktail or shape of ice or size of mixing glass, you can pick the most-appropriate one. ...your simple syrups, homemade grenadines, and various infusions take up more space in the refrigerator than the beer or the milk. [edit: fixed typo]

Do you know which you had? Desert Juniper Gin and Cascade Mountain Gin are two different beasts, despite coming from the same distiller. Both good, though I've never actually done a simultaneous side-by-side, so would have a tough time adding anything beyond the general tasting notes on Bendistillery's site.

Goldfish crackers and landjäger go especially well with Pegu Club cocktails [4:1:1:dash:dash (Bellringer:GrandMarnier:freshlimejuice:Regans's#6:Angostura)], for some odd reason. My lovely wife insists that pistachios are a must as well, though that's never appealed to me specifically.

Just a quick note that the first shipment of Blackwood's Vintage Dry Gin apparently arrived at the docks in New York last week, and should be available from retailers sometime in the next couple of weeks. Apparently the Blackwood's 60 (120 proof) will be also be available, this summer or thereabouts. I don't have any info on pricing. [Edited to fix a typo. Make that two typos. Can't even blame cocktail hour -- this was the middle of the work day.]

Kurt, I'll be sure to come home from my next trip to the liquor store with a bottle of beefeaters, and give it a try with plain old limes. Still unclear about the best Curacao substitute. I don't like the Bols Curacao I have, so that is out. Cointreau? Gran Torres? Gran Gala? Luxardo Triplum? Curacao of Curacao? ~Erik I've settled on 4:1:1, using Grand Marnier as the curacao, as suggested upthread by the inestimable Mr. Wondrich. To my taste, this is my favorite. I've tried it with Luxardo Triplum and with Cointreau; both are fine, but the more-complex GM really stands above the others. [As an aside, I use Bellringer gin; I was originally pointed to this by Murray at Zig Zag. It's an inexpensive (currently $10.95/750ml in WA), 94.4 proof gin that's perfect as a mixer -- and it's considerably better than e.g. Gordon's, IMO.] Regan's #6 as the orange bitters, of course. I recently had a Pegu at Mona's (after reading this write-up). According to the article, they use 4:2:1tsp ratio -- um, I guess that's 12:6:1 if we want to avoid mixing ratios and measurements, but that's just confusing. I think I remember seeing them use Bombay as the gin, and they definitely used Fee's Orange bitters. I didn't see what curacao was added. The result was a drink that shared almost none of the same taste characteristics as the PC that I make at home. It was very orangey and way too sweet, with very little tartness. It wasn't to my taste at all, and evoked spiked Tang more than anything else. The bartenders at Mona's are actually quite good, and the other drinks I had there were similar in profile to those I have had elsewhere and quite enjoyed, so it was interesting to see how much this one drink could differ in characteristics.

In Seattle, it seems to be a common trend to make Sidecars using Metaxa brandy -- I've seen them or had them them that way at 10 Mercer, Shea's Lounge, Palace Kitchen, Mona's and others. I make them that way at home now too. Something about the Metaxa gives an added depth to the drink.

Next up was: Olive-Oil Poached Wild King Salmon [a relief to us, being Pacific Northwest salmon snobs...], Spring vegetable Pot-au-feu Roasted Wild King Salmon [again, whew!] Mushrooms, Artichoke, Micro Sorrel, Sauce Pistou paired with [respectively]: Morey-St. Denis Les Chaffots Hubert Lignier 2001 and Pessac-Leognan Chateau Fieuzal Blanc 2003 Yes, we started getting some individual pairings with our individual courses... Then- Braised Lamb Shoulder Ravioli, Warm Pea Emulsion, Lamb Jus Swan Creek Ricotta Gnocchi, Morels, Morel Jus Paired w/ Barbaresco Angelo Gaja 1999 It's important to note here that Angelo Gaja was described by our sommelier as "God". Yes, capital "G". Based on a limited gospel -- we only got a glass each -- I would tend to agree. Then- Steamed Elysian Fields Lamb Loin, Ramp Leaves, Morels, Morel & Lamb Jus Roasted Elysian Fields Lamb Loin, Spring Vegetables, Salt-Poached Potatoes, Lamb Jus Respective pairings were: Marus Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley 2002 Pauillac Chateau Pichon-Longueville Comtesse de Lalande 2002 We were then presented with a collection of TRU Cow, Goat, and Sheep's Milk cheeses. I personally was starting to go into a food/wine coma at this point, so don't ask me to tell anyone exactly what we had. LMF may remember (in which case I need to work on my own personal limits a bit, because I'm being shown up by a true professional). In an attempt to cleanse our palettes, which would have been more effective had we not been reaching capacity, we then received an excellent basil sorbet of some sort, made with champagne or other sparkling liquid. Although I was ready to explode at that point, leaving an unfortunate mess on the ceilling for the janitorial staff, a "Duet of Desserts" was brought out. Why it was called a duet I don't know -- we each got three, plus a small glass of some sort of housemade rootbeer float. Brain functions were beginning to shut down, so other than remembering fruity-based things coming to my plate and chocolatey things to LMF's (which we swapped, because I'm a chocolate fiend), details are lost. Our menu tells us we were served Barsac Chateau Coutet 1989 and Barbeito Malvasia Madeira Reserva Velha 1954. No, that year is not a misprint. Then came the mignardises and lollipops. Oh my. Flatline. I'm surprised I made it out the door. Though I was relieved to see there was one more couple in the restaurant -- we've shut down too many other places already!

In fairness to Canlis, I wanted to follow up on our experience. I called and spoke to Mark Canlis about our evening, our general disappointment, and the manner in which things had been handled. After apologizing and saying he'd like to have us back (but understood if we never wanted to), he also followed up by mail with a hand-written apology and a gift certificate for $250. I hadn't asked for anything specifically; I just told him what happened and left things up to him. About the service charge: In retrospect, I should have asked on the night of the dinner, or the next day, that it be reduced (since I was unhappy with the service specifically) but since I'd actually waited a couple of weeks after we ate there before I called in, I felt that was inappropriate. Not really fair to pull money back out of someone's pockets like that (I guess it's possible that Canlis would have just eaten the difference, but no way to know). Because of Mark's response to me, we're planning on giving them another shot. Not the private room again anytime, but it can't hurt to check out the general dining room. That should be more indicative of most people's experience anyway. I'll post about the make-up dinner after we go (no planned date yet).

I asked around a bit and was told the Vintage Dry will be launched at the Whiskies of the World Expo in San Francisco on March 25th. Also, "it will be available in major markets across the US and by mail order from places such as Binny's in Chicago". (This emailed to me from Riannon Walsh)

I passed through the Duty Free store at the Pacific Crossing US/Canada border near Blaine, Washington, today and came across Grand Marnier Cuvee Loius Alexandre. It was kind of expensive (~US$65 -- though that's for a 1.15L bottle, I think) and I hadn't heard of it before, so I didn't pick up a bottle. When I got home I looked it up and was surprised to find it's only available at Duty Free in Holland and Canada. It sounds interesting, though the price still seems high. Has anyone had it, and if so, what do you think?

Thanks again for all the suggestions. It worked out that our neighbors brought over the vodka unchilled, so shots were kind of impractical (as Sam suggested they might be). We'd purposely kept dinner simple (Thomas Keller's roast chicken from the Bouchon cookbook, because there's no chicken either more simple or more delicious), a potato gratin, apple crisp, homemade ice cream (also from Monsieur Keller, natch), etc. So simplicity of cocktail was also key, and David's Delancey was perfect. To be fair to Gary, I did use his orange bitters... The Delancey was really surprisingly good, and it did (as suggested) let the vodka taste come though. Szambelan, aka "Chamerlain" vodka, is also well worth exploring, and fortunately I have a half bottle left to experiment with (plus a next-door source for more!) It was [apparently] the vodka of Polish kings once upon a time, though such claims are hard to verify. It was a little richer than many vodkas I've had; I'll post a tasting note later after I try it neat. But again, the suggestions for ways to serve this were much appreciated, and I'm actually going to try Gary's pretty soon too.

Great suggestions, all. We're slightly hampered by the fact that we don't yet know these people well yet (thus, the dinner, to rectify that), but we do know that the wife doesn't eat fish. Whether that extends to all-things-fishy (caviar, oysters, etc) is an unknown at this point. So although the eastern-European traditional way of chilled vodka shots along with food is a lot of fun, some of the better pairings are maybe off the list for tonight. (Side note: I had a lot of icy vodka shots -- most of them pretty rough -- in Russia recently, both with and without food, and it was only the foodless shots that really killed me...) The vodka, by the way, is Szambelan, which I have not had before. I'm torn between David and Gary's suggestions right now, and will probably play it by ear a little. I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks again for the time and comments.

Other than the occasional martini for someone, I don't usually make cocktails with vodka -- gin, cognac, rum, etc., sure, but vodka not so much. On Sunday night we have some new neighbors coming over for dinner. They apparently have some family connection to a Polish vodka maker, and have offered to bring some of their stock over. Great, but I'd like to be able to offer some sort of cocktail to them using what they bring. Assuming I have a well-stocked bar -- it's decent -- and want to offer something in addition to martinis and not just a cosmo or something equally uninteresting, what would you suggest? Obviously I don't have a lot of time between now and then to infuse anything. I own most standard liquors and bitters, have some homemade grenadine and ginger syrup floating around, have a good collection of liqueurs, etc. My pimento dram is unfortunately at least 2 weeks out from being ready, but I don't even have anything in mind for it that involves vodka anyway. Suggestions?

I did finally try a No. 209 Martini a few weeks ago at the Orbit Room. While I think the floral and herbaceous character of this gin is interesting, it didn't immediately catapault to the top of my list, at least for very dry Martinis. Also, while the Martini could have been colder, the base alcohol still seemed a little harsh, at least compared to the Plymouth I usually drink. I just had some more out of my 209 bottle the other night -- still good, but yes, maybe not the best for a dry martini. I have some tasting notes to post on several other gins -- Indigo by Larios, Van Gogh, Plymouth [sadly, not Navy Strength], Kensington, Old Raj, and at the opposite end of the price spectrum, my inexpensive-but-quite-good "well" gin, Bellringer (the introduction to which I owe to Murray at Zig Zag). Been meaning to do that forever, but something -- maybe cocktail hour?? -- always seems to get in the way...

After reading the When Is a Collins Not a Collins? thread, and more-relevantly the linked Gary Regan article, we had Mark Mendoza's "My Favorite Sidecar" tonight. I used Martell VS as the cognac, and Maraska instead of Luxardo as the marachino (just because Luxardo can't be bought in Washington state, so I hoard my mail-ordered bottle...) I have to say I enjoyed it quite a bit, as did Little Ms Foodie, whihc is probably more important I could just taste the marachino. A nice twist on the standard Sidecar.

I made a couple of Corpse Reviver #2 cocktails last night for Little Ms Foodie and myself. Excellent -- though my eyeballing of the remaining contents of the Cointreau bottle had been a little off, and I came up 1/2 oz. short for having enough for 2 cocktails. Nothing to do but top that off with some Grand Marnier, which was the only thing I had handy in the same ballpark. Then for round 2, I had to use it as a 100% substitution (and the taste was slightly different as a result). Having never made the CR#2 before, I don't know how a strictly-interpreted recipe would taste in comparison. Generally I prefer the richness of GM to Cointreau in many cases, but it might be a bit too much for this, which is otherwise a very delicate cocktail -- I think the GM may have masked some of what the absinthe was trying to contribute. Next time I'll try it with Cointreau and see if it makes a difference. [edit: fixed typo]

Audrey from Pegu Club very kindy (and quickly) responded to my inquiry, and referred me to APS Glass & Bar Supply, in Germany. My high-school German is quite dusty, but it looks like APS is geared mostly at industry rather than individual orders (which isn't surprising), though they're not actually opposed to sending things to individuals. There are minimum quantity orders, I think. The mixing glasses themselves are available by selecting Bar Produkte, then Mixinglas / Rührglas. I don't actually see the same product listed in the Online Store portion of the site, which does seem to be geared towards individual orders. I don't expect these are very expensive, but as Audrey pointed out, shipping from Germany would not be cheap, so at least for now I'm probably not going to pursue this too much -- besides, regular shakers or pint glasses work just fine, and there are always the options pointed out by Sam. Thanks all.