ulterior epicure
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Posts posted by ulterior epicure
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Oh, I see. While I was aware they've started a Twitter campaign, I have no idea what twits they're dropping in cyberspace.
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I've no doubt at all that Daniel Boulud resents being at two stars, when Vongerichten, Ripert, and Keller are at three. I don't know if enough has changed (aside from refurbishing the dining room) to push it over the top.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if achieving a 3rd Michelin star didn't factor very heavily into both the execution of, and timing of, Chef Boulud's considerations in going ahead with a renovation at Daniel. How could it not? Bruni was enamored by it, could work the same magic with the Michelin inspectors.
Right, because new upholstery is exactly what the folks at Michelin should be focusing on.
I take it you are the #1 fan of their NY Twitter feed too?
Huh?
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I've no doubt at all that Daniel Boulud resents being at two stars, when Vongerichten, Ripert, and Keller are at three. I don't know if enough has changed (aside from refurbishing the dining room) to push it over the top.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if achieving a 3rd Michelin star didn't factor very heavily into both the execution of, and timing of, Chef Boulud's considerations in going ahead with a renovation at Daniel. How could it not? Bruni was enamored by it, could work the same magic with the Michelin inspectors.
Right, because new upholstery is exactly what the folks at Michelin should be focusing on.
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I hope EMP finally gets some stars.
I will make a prediction: they will - at least one - in this next round of reviews.
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thats shocking. what was their reaction when you told them this?
i find it hard to believe you didnt like any of the bon bons or had you just given up by this point and inside you had turned off and couldnt wait to leave? i would have done, i cant believe he has his name behind something as bad as that.
I believe it. Here's what I wrote about the petits fours in my blog post:
As for the petits fours: “Forty sweets, all made in-house,” she boasted. And not one of the half dozen or so I tried was anything to write home about. The cannelé was soggy, the infused chocolates were bland, and the orangettes – well, I’ve made better ones at home. The couverture on the orangette was gritty and the rind had been over-candied – it had lost all of its citrus fragrance. The best thing off the candy trolley I tried was a half-domed pear gelée filled with Brandy. Gosh, I wish they had reminded me to pop it in one bite. The Brandy ended up on my jacket. I should have known better. -
I was just in Hong Kong, where I heard from a few chefs that he visits there quite frequently. Consulting gig, I assume. But I have no clue as to what he's up to in New York.
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Good grief, they're giving out MORE stars? Shouldn't they be taking some away? All I have to say is, at least one of the 18 new stars better be going to Eleven Madison Park. And, at least one other star had better be going to Corton.
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Thanks, Kenneth, for that explanation.
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Kenneth, can I assume that you and your wife received the same five dishes for the tasting menu? And also, were all of those dishes taken from the a la carte menu?
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lgott, that is interesting, indeed. The Miyazaki-gyu beef I had at Bar Charlie a couple of months ago was A5-10. It was alright. I didn't care for the triple sear technique they employed. The A5-11 wagyu I had at Alex a few nights before, by comparison, was extraordinary. That might have been the best piece of beef I've had in years.
re: A5-12. If I'm not mistaken, that's a piece of beef at least seven years in the making, as the last cow to have received that rating was in 2002.
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And I'll never forget her Hundred Corner Crabcakes.
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I heard that it was closing some time ago. Has it happened?
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Sneakeater, you know this is a red herring. Restaurants like le Bernardin and Eleven Madison Park DO have a dress code. You know perfectly well that a room full of sweatpants and hoodies would not be met at any of the four-starred in New York. But places like Eleven Madison Park also afford their guest the courtesy of comfort: should a man not want to wear a coat, he doesn't have to. I'm reminded of the funny, but helpful instruction by the reservationist at Restaurant Gordon Ramsay at RHR: "Gentleman are reminded that trainers and track suits are not allowed."
I'm also reminded of my first visit to le Bernardin. There was a large party in the middle of the dining room. One of the ladies at that table decided it might be amusing to dress up as Miss America. Besequined from head to toe (and there was a lot of her, so there were a lot of sequines), she turned the entire dining room into Studio 54 for the evening. Instead of a tiara, she had a male peacock roost on her head that evening. As splendid as her headdress was, those feathers whacked servers and diners left and right with every turn of her head. And I'm not exaggerating. Now THAT bothered me, and many other people as well.
In case you missed my point (because I often do), I just wanted to illustrate that for every shockingly declasse wardrobe that walks into a restaurant, an equally absurd costume party waltzes in under the guise of formality. It seems that some people would be happier with me showing up as the Joker rather than Happy Gilmore if not only for the sake of having lapels and a pair of trousers.
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I'm not a critic. But I totally take into account what other people are wearing when I rate a restaurant, for my own purposes. And I find it actually a little hard to believe that other people don't.
Are you guys all saying you REALLY don't care what the other people in the room are like when you eat?
If I went to Le Bernardin, say, and everybody else was in sweatpants, you'd better believe it would bother me.
Sneakeater, you know this is a red herring. Restaurants like le Bernardin and Eleven Madison Park DO have a dress code. You know perfectly well that a room full of sweatpants and hoodies would not be met at any of the four-starred in New York. But places like Eleven Madison Park also afford their guest the courtesy of comfort: should a man not want to wear a coat, he doesn't have to. I'm reminded of the funny, but helpful instruction by the reservationist at Restaurant Gordon Ramsay at RHR: "Gentleman are reminded that trainers and track suits are not allowed."
I'm also reminded of my first visit to le Bernardin. There was a large party in the middle of the dining room. One of the ladies at that table decided it might be amusing to dress up as Miss America. Besequined from head to toe (and there was a lot of her, so there were a lot of sequines), she turned the entire dining room into Studio 54 for the evening. Instead of a tiara, she had a male peacock roost on her head that evening. As splendid as her headdress was, those feathers whacked servers and diners left and right with every turn of her head. And I'm not exaggerating. Now THAT bothered me, and many other people as well.
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I swear to God, one time this lady was wearing what amounted to "Hamburglar" pants at Le Bernardin. So unfair...
Whether it bothers you or not, it's at least accurate to say that EMP is the only non-Masa 4 star that goes with the "jacket preferred" vs. "jacket required", and thus likely to be the least formal.
I think it's also a function of how comfortable one feels without a jacket at any of these restaurants that have a more lax policy. While I wouldn't think twice about going sans jacket to masa, I would think twice about it at Jean Georges, or Eleven Madison Park. But everyone has their own comfort level. sethd prefers to be formal, whilst, on the other side of the spectrum, Ms. Hamburgler pants has a very colorful comfort level. I wish life would come so carefree to me.
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I wouldn't call EMP casual in the absolute sense. An evening when nobody wore a jacket strikes me as atypical, but it is probably the least formal of the six NYC four-stars.I have noticed a much greater percentage of men in jackets in three star restaurants in Paris than I saw at my meal at EMP; actually, I was the only patron of EMP wearing a jacket the night I ate there: that is ridiculous!! Secondly, there is no way you can compare EMP or any restaurant in New York, (perhaps excepting Per Se) to the best in Paris or Europe in general. Thirdly, it is a shame that a lack of formality is so casually accepted my members of this board.Actually, I think that masa occupies that seat. Perhaps it's the counter-seating. Or, perhaps because it is the only four-star that is not recognizably French. Or, perhaps its because the chef is wearing the equivalent of linen scrubs. What e'er it be, it seemed the least formal of all of the New York four-stars to me.
Clearly, I missed the sign-up sheet for noble stock at birth. Being a bourgeois, through and through, I applaud ebullient and open-hearted restaurateurs like Danny Meyer and Jean-Georges Vongerichten who make a point of equalizing the fine dining field, making their food and dining experience more accessible. Why should the rest of us have to eat cake?
For the record, I have not entered any of the New York four-stars without a tie and jacket save masa. That being said, I would bother me little if the fellow next to me wore a garbage bag (in fact, I have seen women in fine dining restaurants wrapped in haute couture nightmares that could have come straight out of a Glad family of products box). As much as I love the ceremony of formality, I would often prefer not to have to practice the morbid and ancient ritual of tying a noose around my neck every time I have a yen for caviar and lobster.
As an aside, I've been to all six of the three-starred Michelin restaurants in this country and over a dozen others in half a dozen countries beside. I can't say that I find American Michelin three-stars any less formal (or more formal) than those elsewhere. I think that it's important to note that many three-stars (especially abroad) are housed in hotels. Because a hotel restaurant's primary purpose is to draw people to that hotel, for better or for worse, formality is often de-emphasized in favor of comfort.
I'll also note that three-star Michelin chefs (and New York four-star chefs) seem to be in their kitchen much more than those who have lesser ratings. This isn't really surprising, if you think about it.
As a second aside, would the members of this board who have been to alinea consider it Michelin three-star-worthy? Or, deserving of the highest acclaim as a fine dining restaurant in America? I can't think if a single person who would dispute that it's near or at the pinnacle of American fine dining. And yet, not an inch of linen lines its tables. Still, if I were a Michelin inspector, I'd have no problem awarding it three stars.
As a last aside, I'll repeat: the fact that Eleven Madison Park does not have a single Michelin star is, perhaps, the biggest gap in the New York Michelin reviewing process. I hope they close it up soon.
Sum: I don't know, I kinda go for the food.
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To quote Helene Cousins (for those who know her): "Exact-lay!"
Now there is a woman who knows how to run a restaurant. A restaurant that unlike EMP fully merits all the accolades, stars, and stellar reviews it has achieved over the last 20 years. Mlle Helene Cousins is the best front of the house personality I have ever met.
One of my many problems with my one meal at EMP was the lack of formality, specifically the lack of any dresscode. I can't take a restaurant seriously as a fine-dining destination if jeans (whether Kiton or Lee's) are accepted as appropriate attire in the dining room.
So do you tell Passard to go back to the kitchen when he comes out in denim overalls and boots?
The last time I was at Le Bernardin (in March of this year), Eric Ripert was sporting some nice denim threads and boots. It didn't bother me a bit. Rather, I was simply glad to see that he cared enough to show up.
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Per Se has a whole other level that isn't advertised, but it is served often enough that it's been pretty widely written about. I have never read comparable reports at JG, Daniel or LeB. I am reasonably confident that they do exist, but the people getting them aren't the sort who post to food boards.
Curious though the case, I think this is true.
FWIW, I also think that how much of the meal one is asked to pay for also factors in largely to whether the meal is a true "VIP" situation. I think we've all acknowledged that one can ask for, and will often receive, a "VIP-like" meal, even if it's not printed on the menu.
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To quote Helene Cousins (for those who know her): "Exact-lay!"
Now there is a woman who knows how to run a restaurant. A restaurant that unlike EMP fully merits all the accolades, stars, and stellar reviews it has achieved over the last 20 years. Mlle Helene Cousins is the best front of the house personality I have ever met.
One of my many problems with my one meal at EMP was the lack of formality, specifically the lack of any dresscode. I can't take a restaurant seriously as a fine-dining destination if jeans (whether Kiton or Lee's) are accepted as appropriate attire in the dining room.
And we'll have to agree to disagree on this point, my friend. l'Arpege is not exactly the formal fare that I come to expect from a Michelin 3-star in Paris. I don't need stiff - in fact, I find Ms. Cousin's brand of service quite refreshing in its frankness. Very much like the easy-going, laid back feeling I get from the staff at Eleven Madison Park, actually.
And, if you are to cite attire as a contributing factor to qualifying a "fine dining" experience, then I fail to see how you can possibly classify l'Arpege (or any of the three-stars in Paris these days, for that matter) as fine dining. The clients there are no more dressed up than those I've seen at Eleven Madison Park, if not more casually so.
Edited to add: Perhaps Alain Ducasse at the Plaza Athenee is an exception to the rest of the Parisian three-stars. From my understanding, it remains quite formal.
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Without throwing too much fuel on the fire, I find the listed menu at Per Se to fall under the extended/VIP-style that the Gourmand at EMP offers. I do not think the longer menus, as listed, at the other four-stars qualify. That's the point I was trying to make.
We can easily enough agree to disagree on that. I found no difference in spirit or length of meal, or anything else appreciable for that matter between the 8 course menu at LeB and the 11 course at EMP. All things equal, I prefer to try 11 things vs. 8 things, sure. But they both seemed the same in style to me - "here is our best, enjoy!"
Until you see the table next to yours getting 13 or more dishes, some of which are not on the menu...
But I do agree with you on the point of the 8 vs. 11 having no effect on the overall merit a restaurant is likely to garner from me. To answer my own question that I posed to Bryan above, I have had <10-course meals that were absolutely 4-star like. Conversely, I have had many >10-course meals that couldn't hold a candle to any one dish that I've had at Le Bernardin or Eleven Madison Park, for example.
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Without throwing too much fuel on the fire, I find the listed menu at Per Se to fall under the extended/VIP-style that the Gourmand at EMP offers. I do not think the longer menus, as listed, at the other four-stars qualify. That's the point I was trying to make.
What's the difference? (I'm not arguing here, I'm just curious what you find the distinguishing point.) Is it the length, which you cite above as allowing for more creativity and variety?
Coming from another angle, have you had a 10+ course meal that didn't feel "extended/VIP" to you?
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p.s. By way of fact, and to assist in the discussion, LeB lists 8 courses for it's extended menu, Daniel lists 8, JG 7, EMP 11 and Per Se doesn't list anything, but from experience and reports, the extended menu starts around 14 and can go up from there. I think it's generally fair to refer to these as VIP style menus, although I think that only Alinea comes out and says "here it is, you can buy yourself in as a VIP for $X", enjoy.
I don't think this is right. Le Bernardin, Jean Georges, Daniel, and Eleven Madison Park all offer their top tastings to anybody who is willing to pay the prices that are clearly marked on their menus.
per se is the exception.
Nah, per se is the same - anyone can ask for it.
I meant to stress VIP "style" - i.e. what they would drag out unrequested for VIP's, not to suggest that only VIP's can order them.
Not to get into a war of semantics, but anything in the "VIP style" does suggest that it is a format that no common restaurant diner can access. To me, all of those tasting menus, save the extended per se menu (which is neither listed nor priced publicly), is "regular fare." It's useless and contradictory to call something available to everyone as "VIP" anything, unless, of course, you assume that anyone who's able to afford a meal at any of those restaurants are, by nature, VIPs. I can afford a meal at any of those restaurants (with some irregularity), and I am certainly not a very important person in any sense.
* Edited for egregious crimes against grammar.
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The fact that it is now being put in the category with per se
That category being just literally the category of restaurants that are "4 star NYT"? Or that category being a restaurant generally of the same caliber independent of NYT?
The first statement is irrefutable. The other, oh yeah, you have a fight on your hands :-) (and that fight will have nothing to do with personal preference, I promise!)
I'm referring to both your former and latter qualifications.
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p.s. By way of fact, and to assist in the discussion, LeB lists 8 courses for it's extended menu, Daniel lists 8, JG 7, EMP 11 and Per Se doesn't list anything, but from experience and reports, the extended menu starts around 14 and can go up from there. I think it's generally fair to refer to these as VIP style menus, although I think that only Alinea comes out and says "here it is, you can buy yourself in as a VIP for $X", enjoy.
I don't think this is right. Le Bernardin, Jean Georges, Daniel, and Eleven Madison Park all offer their top tastings to anybody who is willing to pay the prices that are clearly marked on their menus.
per se is the exception.
Michelin 2010
in New York: Dining
Posted
That was supposed to be tweets. Scout's honor.