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Hi, so if I well understand you think that the problem of the availability of Italian wines in fine international restaurants around the world is due to lack of production capacity ... it can be ... but I just saw statistic which says Italian production is second only to France (in Europe) and just for a very little percentage. So why I always find good selection of French wines and not the same with the Italians?

Thanks Craig, good to know in the US it's easy to find a good selection of our wines. Actually I travel practically all over the world exept the US. I have been in New York for holydays last february but in the restaurant I tried I found a great selection of local wines (Californian) and the usual French plus South Americans but almost no Italians. I am not specifically looking for them I just choose the restaurants and in average happens like in New York .... Ciao

Hy everybody, I started this topic few weeks (months) ago asking myself "why the italian wines, which I consider the wolrld bestones, are so poorly represented and known in the international market" .... "price, marketing or what?" or " Am I wrong? are them not so good?" I don't know enough about wines to give answers to these questions ... so I ask to the Society. Well now the discussion is about Barolo, it's a case, it could have been Brunello or Amarone .... Why overseas or also in Europe (UK or Sweden for example) it's almost impossible to drink a Roero (instead of Barolo) or a Valtellina Superiore or a Sfursat (nebbiolo grapes from Lombardy) if not a Sagrantino di Montefalco or some good Negroamaro or Primitivo ... why not Sicilian wines or the international blends from Franciacorta or the Pinot noir from Trentino all wines you can buy less then 50 Eur a bottle or so. Few days ago I was in a top restaurant in Istanbul (Sunset) the wine list included wines like Petrus or Chateau Lafite and a Chateau Margaux '45 (if I well remember) priced 22.000 Euro. Well I drunked a good Shyraz from Australia (Bin 61) because there were no interesting italian wines a part some overpriced Barolo .... Ciao

← Hy .. I am just back from one of my frequent biz-visits to Dubai ... but first after reading egullet forums ... Well I have been really disappointed by Retro ... the restaurant was empty (maybe bad season ) .. the service was not really at the level of a one or two star restaurant in europe ... presentation of dishes was ok but nothing really special .. but what i found not at level were the flavours ... sometime too flat sometime too strong .... I didn't enjoyed the dinner ... also the wine list was not interesting ... Well maybe was the wrong day .. I will try again .... In Dubai actually I never had really "special" food sometimes very good but never special ... I did try : Nina and Tajine @ Royal Mirage The rib house and VU's @ Emirates Zheng's He @ Madinat Peppercrab @ Grand Hyatt plus several restaurants at Golf Clubs ... all of them good some very good (Zheng's He for example) but never special ... Ciao

Dear Daniel thanks for your replay ... all what you say about italian wines is true .... so this make my point still more strong ... why so difficult to find in the wine list of high level international restaurants decent italian wines (off tuscany and piedmont) ? I travel really a lot ... I have been several times also in Israel and I had the opportunity to try a local produced wine ( I dont remember the name .. it was terrible ). Also there were some Chateuax whatever but not italians ... maybe now things are changing , but generally speaking I still dont find good italian wines in the wine list around the world ... just my experience, and I dont understand why ... it's probably a matter of perception the same mind attitude that forced you to use not an italian wine in your smart table .... regards

Quote Karen, Hi Again....... Considering my own age, let's not use the term "old"....... May I suggest "somewhat more mature" as less damaging to the ego. If I had to make a comparative table it might look something like this: Younger/More Mature Viognier/ Sauvignon Blanc Ice Wine/ Sauternes/Tokaj Sherry/ Port New World Cabernet Sauvignon/ Bordeaux Pinot Noir w/out Brett/ Pinot Noir w/a hint of Brett Alsace Riesling/ German Riesling Oaked Chablis/ Unoaked Chablis Provencal Rose/ Spanish Rose Dislike for Rose Champagne/ Strong Liking for Rose Champagne Dislike for Beaujolais Cru/ Strong liking for Beaujolais Cru Krug/ Bollinger That's about what comes to mind at the moment. Do keep in mind of course that ours is a small, self-selected group, mostly European by birth and that these differences have no statistical significance whatever. All in the name of good fun in this case. This post has been edited by Daniel Rogov: Aug 5 2005, 08:53 PM Unquote This is what I mean .... not any Italian wine mentioned in this very interesting and true comparization table done by Daniel Rogov. Sorry Daniel if I used your post, it was only to try to clarify what I mean when I say Italian wines are not yet really known enough in the international markets ( a part the sector specialists) Ciao

Thanks all of you ..... Sassicaia was really goood .... also if I still prefere tuffer wines (as I told before Sfursat, Amarone, certain Barolo, Taurasi ..... ). For sure my wife's enjoyed very much ... Now I am on my way to Dubai, there I will have the occasion to try few international wines (Australia, SA, Chile ....) but after the bottle of yesterday will be hard game. Ciao

Thanks Sarah and Brad for your posts, of course when I refer to Beaujolais Nouveau and I agree it's really hard stuff to drink, but they invaded the world and for a lot of people without wine culture (I read to treadhs with the funny questions about wines ) waiting the exit of this wine is an happening ... try to go to any Novotel (standard for averege turist in France) packed with overseas visitors and look at their tables what they drink. Great marketing really good ... It's the Bordeaux marketing which is starting to have some problem, but this is another topic. There is the need of a revision of DOC and DOCG ... anyhow in Italy politics is inside any aspect of life ... "clientele" were the base of the roman way to govern more then 2000 years ago. Thanks Sarah for the good hints I took note about the names ... About Primitivo here people say it's the same grape called Zinfandel in California ... actually a good primitio and a good zinfandel are very similar. I had few weeks ago a dinner with 4 British customer, we were in Bergamo I choosed Syrah 2002 from Planeta. When they emailed me to thanks all of them mentioned the excellent wine .... wine was good but I am a good seller (I dont sell wines, I sell plastics) and I explained them about this wine about sicily about our story .... this is waht I believe italian wines needs to be sold in the international market. Now I go .... this evening I will open a bottle of Sassicaia, It's my marriage anniversary .... maybe not the best value for the money, but I want to impress my wife Ciao

Hy, NO MAN'S LAND was really good, but I have been told UNIQATO is still better. Nowadays this winery is well known in Bulgaria (I bought this wine in my hotel in Sofia), I don't know if the winery is still owned by the same people of ten years ago, in Bulgaria now the most of the wineries are Italian or French money. They still need to find a quality constancy, but the wines I did try were excellent. Ciao

In my last trips to Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai I had very good wines, probably the modern means of transport and the higher level of wine-culture, helps to distribute wines also in hot countries without killing them. It's a pity there are no many Italian wines available outside of Italy, a part the classical Tuscans and Piedmont wines the rest is almost completely unknown to the public .... Last week I was looking the wines in the Duty Free shop in Miland Airport and I saw a bottle of Biondi-Santi Brunello di Montalcino 1997, price 255 Euro. When I asked why a price like this, they told me the prices there are just few percent less then average street prices in New York and Tokyo ..... We have indigen grapes which are really uniques and fantastic terroires with very good producer, we dont have good marketing .... if I think what french have done with Beaujoleis...... Well Pinotage and Nero D'Avola a good parallel .... Ciao By the way I feel too acid only young sangiovese or barbera ... not a real general characteristic of italian wines..... but we need wines to combine with pasta and fresh cheese ....

Thanks for the nice welcome and interesting replay, maybe the problem is just I dont know enough about wines produced outside of Italy. Well also to be a real expert of Italian wines it's a long way to go .... anyhow I am working on it. I tasted in Singapore an australian Pinot Noir (Nero) that I really liked "Mount Gisbourne 1998", was really excellent (a good match with Franz Haas "Schweizerer" 1999), I paid for it 80 Sing. Dollars (40 Eur) in a top reastaurant. I did look for it in Europe via internet and I found only a winery in UK selling this wine at 125 GBP (almost 200 bucks). Next week I will be in Dubai there is possible to find many SA and Australians wines, I will bring with me a couple of bottles of Planeta Syrah I will look for Barossa Shiraz and i will try .... (i am sure I will enjoy). In your opinion which Italian I should match with SA Pinotage ? Thanks and regards Ciao By the way SFURSAT - 5 Stars - it's the wine i like more then any other I did try up to now.

Hy, I am a wine lover (not an expert or a prof.) I am Italian, travelling for business I have many occasion to taste different wines coming from all over the world (I can probably taste an averege of 5 different wines a week). I don't like to spend fortunes for wines, I fixed a limit at 50 Euros (70 USD) a bottle, I normally prefer reds to whites ... I change the kind of wine depending on my mood on the weather and normally I first choose the wine and then I copy with the food. Up to now I couldn't find international wines which can be considered as good as the Italians (of same kind - I mean Pinot with Pinot etc.), is it because the price limit I fixed? or just because I am Italian? or really Italian winemakers (a part the Supertuscans overpriced because American market) are able to produce excellent wines at good prices? Can you give me an alternative to 20 Euros "SFURSAT" from Negri or a 17 Euro "Shyraz" by Planeta from a not Italian winemaker? Ciao

For this kind of preparation it's essential the quality of the meet and nowadays to find a real "ruspante" chicken or rabbit it's not that easy ..... It was a kind of preparation used in Liguria to conserve food for the sailors or the fishermans, oliv oil extra vergin (first pressure by gravity) from Imperia (only taggiasche olivs) and a rabbit not from industrial farming will do the rest. Ciao

Hy ... My origin are from Liguria, there rabbit is special celebration dish, my grandmom and then my mom and now myself we prepare rabbit for special occasions. All the receipts posted looks execellent, in Liguria we use to add pinoli (pine seeds - I hope they call like this in english) and olive taggiasche (olives kept in salty water). But the segret for the perfect rabbit is to leave it for 6 hours immersed into water and vinager (half and half) then wash and cook as you like.... Ciao

Thans a lot for the welcome. I do travel for business, I represent an Italian company, and my customers normally like to bring me to so called Italian restaurants (they believe we do not survive without eating pasta more then two days) . Actually expecially in east europe, Italian cusine and restaurants, are now sinonimus of high quality, elegance and good food .... also thanks to the new culture our young chefs are exporting around the world. At least when people talks about Italian cusine it's clear what you are going to eat, try to ask anyone in Bucarest about french cusine.... I look for good quality food, good wines, good service ... in many part of the world this is equivalent to Italian restaurants (expecially where you have a large italian community of expats like in Romania). But it's not a rule I am just back from Sofia and I ate Italian only one... I had no really remarkable culinary experiences but I didi try some excellent wines. "NO MAN'S LAND" 2002 a blend (cuveè) of Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot from south Bulgaria was really very good. I bought for my cave a bottle of "UNIQATO" 2001 same winery but an 100% local variety of grape .. soon I will tell you about this wine. By the way in Sofia I suggest MAXI'S: local food in a nice new complex and if you want Italian "La CAPANNINA" just close to Radisson Hotel. Ciao next week I will be in Prague and Brno ... suggestions?