eje
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Posts posted by eje
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Koriko tins are the usual size for metal tin sets, the large is 28oz and the smaller 18oz.
You can definitely shake two modest size drinks in them, if you need to.
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From what was reported to me at Portland Cocktail Week, yes, Unicum will be reintroduced into the US some time in the near future, along with the plum flavored version.
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This morning, I sent a query to Jared Brown (of Mixellany fame) regarding Lillet, Craddock, and the US.
In the message, I made the quip, "I guess Craddock was not just the world's largest Hercules and Caperitif fan at the time, but maybe the world's first Lillet Brand Ambassador."
He replied, "Truer than you realize. Craddock appeared in 1930s ads for Lillet in a UK trade magazine."
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i keep getting invited to taste new amaros that importers are bringing in hoping to be the next big thing. many of them seem really uninspired and full of missed opportunities. i suspect many amaros out there are shadows of their former selves because they are not maintaining their formulas and their sourcing has fallen apart after neglect.
[...]
I'm not quite sure it is quite that bad, but it does seem like a lot of importers with dollar signs in their eyes are looking rather hard to find the next Fernet.
I recently tried a wine based beverage similar in flavor profile to Campari which Haus Alpenz is hoping to bring in, which was quite nice. Alpenz also had another very rooty Alpine Amaro which I quite enjoyed.
A friend brought some Braulio and Braulio reserve from Italy, a very nice herbal Alpine Amaro. I understand it may be imported soon by Domaine Select.
I don't think any of these will be the next Fernet, but they were definitely a cut above the typical commercial Amaros.
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Regarding storage, generally, I only refrigerate wine based beverages.
I've never had a commercial neutral spirits based amaro 'spoil'.
I assume their flavor does change or evolve as they age, especially if they are infusion based, as most amaros are.
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Also, interestingly, though I have identified sources for many of the recipes in the Savoy Cocktail Book, (Ensslin, Thomas, McElhone, Judge Jr, etc.) up to now, none of the Kina Lillet/Lillet recipes have yet been identified as coming from any other source.
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Out of curiousity, this morning I took a look through Hugo Ensslin's "Recipes for Mixed Drinks", one of the last influential cocktail books published before prohibition in the US.
No mention of Kina Lillet/Lillet at all.
Plenty of Dubonnet and even some obscure bitters like Calisaya, but not a peep about Lillet.
On the other hand, then, as now, brand name ingredients in a cocktail book were generally more of an indication of an advertising or sponsorship deal with the author or publisher, than anything else.
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Yeah, I wish I knew where and when the Corpse Reviver No. 2 was created.
I'm pretty sure it is a Craddock original, but I don't know if anyone knows if it was something he made in the US or if he invented it after moving to England.
As far as a survey of pre-prohibition cocktail books in the US, looking for Lillet, that's an interesting idea.
Perhaps one that Greg Boehm or Cocktail Kingdom might have the resources to undertake!
In general, I always think of one of the things that happened during prohibition was that American bartenders in exile started mixing drinks with a wider palate of European liqueurs.
Lillet started being exported on a regular basis to London in the early 1920s, but they could not use the word "Kina" on the label because of customs regulations (the same thing happened in the US). To make things more confusing, the English Lillet ("dry export") was created during the same timeframe with a more assertive flavor profile deemed more appropriate for mixing (could they have been receiving input from Craddock himself? - that would be pretty cool!).
For me, the quote about English Lillet suggested the opposite. That the version in France was sweeter and more bitter than that sold in England.
"In France we need the kina to have a little more substance and to be a little sweeter in order to withstand the mixtures that consumers unfortunately require to consume our product, because it is quite obvious that a gourmet would never blend our Kina with anything; in England we are told that our Kina is drunk with gin as a cocktail."
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Very nice frogprincesse, thank you for reporting!
How do you think the "lillet dry type canadien" relates to the previous quote about availability of these varieties of Lillet: "Kina-Lillet Apéritif", "Français", "Dry Export" or "English-style Lillet"?
My question remains: What version of Lillet would have been available in America before prohibition and in England during prohibition?
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Last night I took a crack at this and since there was no suggested starting point I started with 1.5 oz of champagne to match the cognac/armangac/brandy. Seemed OK but I think perhaps a bit more champagne is needed, at least for my palate. I was using a fairly dry brut although of course I didn't have the specific brand of champagne or armangac (I used the Ferrand 1840 cognac) that was mentioned.
It looks like I was using the tasting glasses from Greenwood Ridge, which are fairly small wine glasses. The Cremant de Bourgogne Rose I used is not super dry, despite being called a brut. I think definitely quite a bit more champagne than 1.5 oz, probably at least 3.
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Tried three white negroni variations last night using the PDT ratio as a starting point.
2 oz Plymouth Gin
3/4 oz Lillet Blanc
1/2 oz Suze
2 oz Plymouth Gin
3/4 oz Dolin Blanc
1/2 oz Salers
2 oz Plymouth Gin
3/4 oz Tempus Fugit Kina l'Avinion d'Or
1/2 oz Tempus Fugit Grand Classico Bitter
I am gradually coming to the conclusion that either my Suze is tired, or I just don't like it. The original was my least favorite of the bunch.
Second was a nice feature for the Saler's and a tasty cocktail.
The Third was the most 'negroni' of the three, adding the herbal accents of the Gran Classico. Guests were about 50-50 between it and a classic negroni.
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Check Brinza's comment above.
Another source of information I've found interesting is this seemingly well researched article originally from 'Flavors of France':
Lillet: the classic Bordelais aperitif
In 1985, Bruno Borie, owner of Chateau Ducru Beaucaillou, bought the business from the Lillet family [snip]
The first thing Borie did was relook at the recipe of Lillet Blanc and make it fruitier, lighter, less sugary but also less bitter, as he reduced the levels of quinine – to achieve the balance of sweetness and sourness that it has today. A Reserve Jean de Lillet Blanc was also created, that more closely resembles the original recipe, tasting somewhere between a Sauternes and today’s Lillet aperitif. With the new recipe, he relaunched the drink. At the time, sales were 24,000 in France, but when he sold it in 2008 (to the Ricard family of Pernod-Ricard), sales had reached 400,000 in France, with another 400,000 overseas.
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To the best of my knowledge, the timeline from the lillet website is accurate:
1872 Company founded
1887 Lillet formula created
1895 Lillet launched in Bordeaux
1895 In the US and West Indies "Lillet Export Double Quinine" marketed as a tonic wine
1909 Two products available in Europe, Kina Lillet and Sauternes Lillet
1920 "Lillet Dry" created and introduced in England, "to suit English tastes, especially when mixed with gin."
1962 Lillet Rouge created
1985-86 Lillet modernized its manufacturing facilities and Lillet Blanc reformulated, "...fresher, fruitier, less syrupy, less bitter...
The Lillet company has no information or will not talk about the "LIllet Export Double Quinine", Kina Lillet or any other product, maintaining Lillet Blanc is the only white lillet they have produced. They also maintain no other bittering agent than Quinine has ever been used in their products, making Cocchi Americano's gentian-herb flavors a bit far afield from the much more tame Lillet.
Others have tasted white lillet samples vintage pre-1985 and said they were nearly identical to modern Lillet Blanc.
However, if you read David Embury (circa 1948), he talks about two versions of white Lillet being available in the US, "Kina Lillet" and "Lillet Vermouth", and espouses only using "Lillet Vermouth" for cocktails, as the other is too bitter and syrupy.
My guess is some time between 1948 and 1986 the more bitter and syrupy version of lillet was discontinued and the company standardized on the Lillet Dry it had been marketing in England.
Note, the company does still occasionally produce the delicious vintage dated Reserve Jean de Lillet, though to me, that product is no more perceptibly bitter than Lillet Blanc. I believe this product is the descendent of the 'Sauterne Lillet' mentioned in the timeline.
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Hadn't noticed the Old Pal recipe in the appendix for Barflies and Cocktails, thanks for pointing that out:
I remember way back in 1878, on the 30th of February to be exact, when the Writer was discussing this subject with my old pal "Sparrow" Robertson and he said to yours truly, "get away with that stuff, my old pal, here's the drink I invented when I fired the pistol the first time at the old Powderhall foot races and you can't go wrong if you put a bet down on 1/3 Canadian Club, 1/3 Eyetalian Vermouth, and 1/3 Campari." and then he told the Writer that he would dedicate this cocktail to me and call it, My Old Pal.
Uh, wait, Adam: "Eyetalian Vermouth"?
Anyway, I quite enjoy the idea that an Old Pal made with Rye and Gran Classico is doubly transgressive for the true cocktail geek. If only I could do something about the Dry Vermouth. Imbue or Sutton Cellars, perhaps?
Regarding the historic character of Canadian Whisky, Darcy O'Neil has published some articles. I suspect it was more like the juice Whiskey Pig and some of the other "negotiants" are currently selling as "Rye", than the "Canadian Club" of today.
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In this NYT article on the Boulevardier, Toby Ceccini writes: "The drink is credited to Harry McElhone, the founder and proprietor of Harry’s New York Bar in Paris, and dated to 1927. It is mentioned only glancingly in his book “Barflies and Cocktails,” not in the 300-odd cocktail recipes that make up the bulk of that volume, but rather in a tongue-in-cheek epilogue that follows, recounting the antics of his regular customers. In a brief paragraph, he cites: “Now is the time for all good barflies to come to the aid of the party, since Erskinne Gwynne crashed in with his Boulevardier Cocktail: 1/3 Campari, 1/3 Italian vermouth, 1/3 Bourbon whisky.” McElhone’s earlier volume, “Harry’s ABC of Mixing Cocktails,” has the cocktail listed using Canadian Club as the whisky." (Emphasis mine.) Given the clear relationship between the two drinks, I would imagine the Old Pal was also originally with Canadian Club.
Interesting. Well, I can tell you that P.G. Duffy, who tends to be quite anal about reproducing recipes exactly from their earlier sources, calls for Rye Whiskey in the "Old Pal" Cocktail.
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Doesn't the Old Pal originally call for Canadian Club whiskey?
I believe the first publication of the Old Pal was in an early version of Harry's ABC of Mixing Cocktails.
In my experience, McElhone doesn't call for Canadian Whisky very often. The only cocktail I can find in his "Barflies and Cocktails" that calls for Canadian Club rather than Rye, Bourbon, Scotch, or Irish Whisky is the "Canadian Cocktail".
That said, I don't have an early edition of Harry's ABC to check and the Old Pal was omitted from Barflies and Cocktails.
When Harry Craddock included the Old Pal in the Savoy Cocktail Book, as with most of the cocktails which called for Rye or Bourbon originally, he called for Canadian Club.
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brinza: "Not to cause too much thread drift, but does the distinction between the Old Pal and the Boulevardier hinge on the whiskey or the vermouth?"
In my opinion, it's the Vermouth. Old Pal==Dry Vermouth, Boulevardier==Sweet Vermouth
Depending on the exact brand and mash bill of the Whiskey, either could be fairly similar with Rye or Bourbon.
On the other hand, they are pretty different drinks with sweet or dry vermouth.
Though, heh, there is quite a difference between Dolin Rouge and Carpano Antica or Imbue and Dolin Dry.
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Yojimbo: "I'd be curious to hear whether people think Cardamaro falls within the expansive definition of vermouth being discussed here -- I assume it's technically not vermouth if the ingredients list doesn't include wormwood -- but is anybody subbing it for vermouth, or do you consider it really an amaro?"
As a "Vino Amaro", Cardamaro probably falls into the same bucket of "Aromatized Wines" which includes Barolo Chinato, not "Fortified and Aromatized Wines", which includes Vermouth.
Check Martin Doudoroff's website: Vermouth 101 for clarification.
On the other hand, in the US, pretty much all "Aromatized" or "Fortified and Aromatized Wines" are legally classified as "Vermouth" by the TTB.
Conversely, as they are on a spirits base, most things like Zucca, Gran Classico, or Campari are legally classified as "Liqueurs" by the TTB.
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EvergreenDan:
"- Do you think the reason you like the Gran Classico is because of its different flavor profile (perhaps, more floral, less bright)?"
I think Gran Classico bring more herbal complexity to the Old Pal. Campari is pretty single noted without the cushion of complexity from the Italian Vermouth. It also took me a while to come around to the Brooklyn, I will admit, though they are favorites now.
"- Or perhaps is Gran Classico a bit sweeter than Campari, making the 1:1 ratio between it and dry less severe? (I hadn't noticed much of a sugar difference myself.)"
Gran Classico does seem perceptibly richer than Campari, not sure about actual brix levels.
"- Do you love (love, love) a Martini? Between it an an Old Fashioned, which is more appealing to you?"
I do not "love" super dry Martinis, aka a big glass of cold Gin.
Depends on my mood, but I would probably be more likely to drink a Manhattan, Martinez, or Old-Fashioned than a Martini.
Though I do like the Dry Vermouth version of the Turf a whole lot and Fifty-Fifty Cocktails are a favorite as well.
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KD1191 "How very strange. 2:1:1 Russell's Reserve Rye, Gran Classico Bitter & Noilly Prat Dry = a drink that reminds me of nothing more than raspberries dipped in extremely high-cacao dark chocolate."
Is that a bad thing?
I haven't tried a Gran Classico Old Pal with Noilly Prat dry for a while, usually keep Dolin Dry around the house. I'll have to get some and give it a try. I'm pretty sure Noilly Dry's sugar content is much higher than Dolin Dry.
It's very interesting, I've heard all sorts of unusual flavor descriptors from people when they try drinks with Gran Classico.
Grape Candy, Cabbage, etc.
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"4. A lot of people agree with me about the Old Pal and the Boulevardier. The former isn't that good, the latter is superb. I hazard to guess the Old Pal only gets so much attention because it contains a fashionable ingredient in rye whiskey."
While I do like the Cardinale, aka Aperitivo Harry, I have never quite gotten the appeal of the Old Pal.
On the other hand, an Old Pal with Gran Classico Bitter is pretty darn fantastic.
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Alcohol in solution makes very little difference in spoilage, unless you get to levels where your syrup would be considered a liqueur.
Alcohol (preferably high proof) used as a surface disinfectant immediately prior to bottling is not a bad idea. Shake a little 151 in your bottle and pour it out before bottling.
Highly saturated sugar solutions, for example honey or most commercial syrups, are extremely shelf stable, even at room temp, with little care paid to sanitation.
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Nylon Grain Bags available from your local home brew supply store are better than cheesecloth and reuseable.
For better shelf life, I would advise shooting for a 2-1 syrup.
I've found 1-1 Orgeat to spoil rather unfortunately quickly.
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I thought the version of Raspberry Syrup I made for the Albemarle Fizz turned out rather well. Taking some cues from the discussion over in the Shrub topic.
Raspberry Syrup1/2 cup Water
1 Cup Washed Raw Sugar
1 Cup Frozen Raspberries
1 Tablespoon Balsamic Vinegar
Combine water and sugar in a saucepan over low heat. When sugar is dissolved, add raspberries and Balsamic Vinegar. Strain through chinois or cheesecloth, mashing to get as much of the liquid as possible. Cool and refrigerate. Makes about 12 ounces.
Obviously, you're not going to want to use a ridiculously expensive Balsamic for this, instead something young and fruity.
Help, I need to buy a real pro shaker
in Spirits & Cocktails
Posted
I've always nominally preferred the Naranja tins to the Koriko for one handed shaking. The diameter is slightly smaller.
They still carry them at Umamimart.
Umamimart Barware