jtnicolosi

Do you think our society has become a bit obsessed with "the best"? In Philly Weekly you have the "50 best bars", in Philly Mag the "50 best restaurants", in Philly Inq the "top 45 cheesesteaks", etc. I find myself tiring of it. Yes of course there is some standard here, some objective level at which food can be judged, but at some point, isn't a bit like trying to name the "100 most beautiful people in the world" or the "100 greatest films"? Subjectivity must enter into the picture. Someone could genuinely prefer #3 to #1 or #18 to #4. I suppose you could say, "yes, it's true, but so what, the writers are giving their subjective opinions." The problem is, these opinions effect business, either emotionally or financially. It just seems too specific, to decide that #1 is better than #2, or 3. If given forty five cheesesteak joints, would it not be preferable to simply say ten of them are really great, ten are good, and fifteen are ok? So does anyone agree, or is my perspective skewed because I'm in the business?

Just a quick thought: The classic Philadelphia roast pork sandwich is made using a fresh ham. Now, a fresh ham is not a particularly tender cut, so, you have two options: slow cook it for a very long time (like a pot roast), until it is so tender it is about to fall apart, or roast it relatively quickly and slice it very thinly on a deli slicer. When cooked like a pot roast (or like our pulled pork) it will have cook until about 200 degrees, that's just about when all the fat melts away, leaving an extremely moist and tender product. Although this is possible with a ham, no one would do it - you would just use a pork butt, which is much fattier, hence much more flavorful and better suited for long slow cooking. Where does that leave us, a roasted ham cooked to about 140 degrees at a higher temperature. Cooking at a high temperature and thoroughly browning the outside provides caramelization and a suitable basis for producing a stock. You could, theoretically, slice it extremely thin by hand, but that just wouldn't work very well during lunch. I don't believe that would necessarily produce a better product (only for the eyes, which do often convince the mind), it would certainly be less consistent. If you were to take one of our roasts, and try to carve it by hand it would be a mess. Tough, inconsistent, and really just improper. As for the gravy, you're not talking about some cheap commercial stock. It's real pork stock, from bones, from meat, from skin. It's flavor. It's done properly. Just as a good dark chicken stock is made. Just as a French veal stock is made. The process of submerging the sliced pork in the stock may be unique, but it's good unique. Look at Vietnamese Pho - thinly sliced raw beef (which is usually an eye roast, and rather similar to our beef bottom round ) is plopped in a beef stock right before it's brought to you - it works. It's beautiful stuff, is it what people would imagine a beef soup to be? Probably not, but it's damn good. So, like it or not, it's the traditional way the Philly pork sandwich is. In fact, it's roots really are dug heavily in Italian cooking. It is proper, it is exactly what it's supposed to be (ours certainly is). Roast a piece of meat, slice it thinly, drown it in natural stock, and plop it on a roll. If you ask me, I'd say it's a fine, fine thing.

Wonderful response Bob! Come on now Bob, you should know better... are you making this fatal error here on purpose, or did I miss something? They aren't hoagies or subs, they are sandwiches. Just sandwiches. Roast pork sandwiches. ← C'mon, Joe. I was just talkin' about what a sub's called here. As far as what you put together, that's not a sandwich, that's a WORK OF ART! ←

Come on now Bob, you should know better... are you making this fatal error here on purpose, or did I miss something? They aren't hoagies or subs, they are sandwiches. Just sandwiches. Roast pork sandwiches. The person that stands in line and asks for a roast pork hoagie is the same person that asks for mayo, or american cheese. Heaven help them.

Good God man, good stuff. But remember, you must fry it in a non-hydrogenated oil!!

I know, I know. But man, pork belly sandwich, how good does that sound? (well, maybe it's just me) You might just be on to something.

Along with some others here, I do not support the plight of the baker even in the slightest. To suggest that pastries and cakes cannot be made with trans-fats is ludicrous. This of course is a very long and in depth topic, but saturated fats are FAR superior to trans. Think of the "French Paradox," they consume more natural fats, more smoke, and more wine than us Americans, yet they live longer and look better. Go figure. Let's forget the bogus science of the 60's and 70's that convinced the masses that trans-fats are superior. I don't care what the FDA says, lard and butter are the very things missing from the American diet. Those things both require real applications in cooking, that's what's missing! Trash the fast food, the chips, and the mass consumption of starches and sugar (one and the same, of course). Yes, we are talking about desserts here, but nevertheless, one made without the use of trans-fats certainly is the lesser of two evils. Let's also forget the bogus claim that pastries cannot be made without trans-fats. So they need to make cannoli shells six weeks in advance? Tough. Work it out. They did it fifty years ago, they can do it again. And Bob, the lard in those UTZ chips is perfectly ok, it's the potato that is the poison. Sugar is the killer, not the fat. People are often in disbelief by the suggestion that natural fats are healthy. Again, faulty science brainwashed us. No joke. Part II coming- The second hand smoke BS... (kidding, sort of)

Yes, MarketStEl, your impression, based on that section, is accurate. However, since nothing Dunston says here is true, it is impossible to decipher the truth when all one has read is false. Therefore nullifying anything that would one conclude based solely upon this article.

It's quite amazing to see how the RTM board continues to blatantly lie.* Such arrogance. *irrefutable statement

THE RICKS RALLY WILL BE HELD AT A FUTURE DATE

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised that no one has picked up on this: the Amish have canceled the Dutch Festival this year! That's right, no festival due to management's foolish decision to remove Rick from the Market. This is a very strong stand on the part of the Amish, and detrimental to management. Especially since the Amish will be directing all customers with questions or complaints specifically towards the office. How about that?

It would be written into his lease, which he couldn't change until his next lease. It strikes me as being a bit unfair because of the large location that he would be receiving. We've been in the Market for twenty-six years, and have worked within 280 square feet. We would love to have a larger spot, but the opportunity hasn't arisen. Now along comes Tony Luke, with a huge space, and ample room to sell multiple products. If management was to allow them to sell pork, it would be a huge injustice to us (and truly insulting), just as Rick is currently the victim of such a disservice. Think about this, Jack, owner of Downtown Cheese, has in my opinion, the best cheese shop in the city. But many require the glitz, glamour, and name appeal of Di Bruno Brothers. So what if the Market wanted to replace the now empty Foster's location with Di Bruno? Why purposely damage the business of any Reading Terminal staple?

If he's smart, yes.

...and MarketStEl, thanks for your support. I hope others feel as you do in the future. But really, it's the tourist than concern me most. For many, quality is less important than name.

Bluehensfan, you've got it right. Let's examine the three hoagie stands in the Terminal. The bulk of Salumeria's business is made on the purveyor side (cheese, olive oil, etc...). Spataro's sells far more cheesesteaks and breakfast sandwiches than hoagies. So Carmen's is left, the ONLY true hoagie shop in the Terminal, and Rick's overflow certainly doesn't hurt them. So while it's very easy to see why someone would suggest both a DiNic's and Tony Luke's, upon closer examination there may be less breathing room for us than expected. And to emphasize the point that Bluehensfan already made, a cheesesteak place located on the 12th Street convention center side needs no help from roast pork to be the busiest lunch counter in the Market. Why would management potentially, and knowingly, run the risk of hurting our business? How would it benefit anyone? Anyhow, management may not allow Tony Luke's to sell pork. ...and Rick it ain't gone yet... P.S. Ok, ok. I know all about the Rabe vs. Spinach thing. We have tried it in the past, it simply hasn't sold well. But years have passed, and it seems to be more popular, so it may be time to try again. I'll keep you posted.

Well, I suppose now would be a good time to chime in with this last string of comments. But oh, where to begin? What Diann said earlier is quite important here: that 95% of the people that eat a DiNic's sandwich are more than satisfied. As difficult as it is, and as much as it pains me to read negative comments, I've also come to the conclusion that in this business it is impossible to be everyone's number one. Pick any fine restaurant in the city and you will find a plethora of praise as well as disapproval. Our goal is to please as many people as possible, the reality being that some will prefer someplace else, and that's OK. With this said, I believe this: between our pulled pork and roast pork, we have the best pork sandwich in the city. I've had the other's, and I don't think they compare, but they are good. But I assure you, it's quite alright if you disagree. I've heard loads of opinions over the years, and from those I'd be willing to wager that the majority of people that have eaten from both DiNic's and another pork place, prefer DiNic's. That's what we want. Not necessarily everyone, but most. To mrbigjas, the bread story is a very long and complicated one. We're doing our best to have the best bread possible, it's just an extremely difficult task. The quality of bread fluctuates greatly within any bakery, especially when dealing with sandwich size rolls. We use more than one baker to try and balance this. If you, or anyone here prefers a specific type of roll, speak up! If anyone wants their greens dry, speak up! If anyone wants their sandwich wet or dry, speak up! So help us out, we can't make a sandwich the way everyone likes it, so we make them somewhere in between. If you have any requests at all, PLEASE SPEAK UP!

Once again to clarify things, MarketStEl, you are wrong. Rick was refusing to give sales figures, but so were many other merchants. Many of whom have not yet signed their leases. Most, or all of the Amish are yet to sign. They as well refuse to report sales. Futhermore, lease payments are not in any way dependent upon sales figures (at least for the current lease. Whether they will change the rent structure based upon the sales figures in another five years is unknown, management claims this is not to be so). The three elements of rent are as follows: square footage, location, and store type (purveyors, lunch, specialty items, and mixed). Again, lease terms are based ZERO PERCENT on sales figures. MANY others refused to give numbers, many STILL haven't signed their lease. So in NO WAY was Rick the last man standing. To continue your analogy, he has never been given a serve. Therefore never had the opportunity to return a serve.

While watching this thread I've remained quite because I am very much an insider, but I now feel it necessary to address a couple of issues. First off, Rick was NOT offered a lease, in any form whatsoever. As for his disagreement with the terms of the lease he was representing a constituency that also did not view the lease terms as being fair. Yet, those merchants that deemed the new lease terms unfair still received a lease. It was Rick, and Rick alone (excluding those who were previously not given a lease) who was not given an option to sign, or not sign. Second, the concern for the future of the purveyors is a completely irrelevant topic in regard to Rick's lease. In no way will Tony Luke be a greater benefit to the purveyors. His rent will be the same as Rick's would have been, had he been offered a lease. Some have suggested that with a higher rent from Tony Luke's, the purveyors could better be supported. Remember, the rent is not an arbitrary figure, it is based upon location, square footage, and vendor type. For management to suggest that bringing in Tony Luke's will be a greater help to the Market than Rick's is complete propaganda, with the intent to persuade supporters of management's core objectives (to preserve the Market's purveyors...) that it's OK to take away someone's livelihood after 25 years because it is for the "greater good." For those that continue to undermine the importance of the lunch merchants, please remember this: if not for them, the Reading Terminal most definitely would not have survived the past quarter century. It was the success of the those merchants (such as Rick's, DiNic's, Spataro's, Rocco's, and Pearl's) that enabled the Market to stay afloat through some extremely rocky years. I could say much more, but my intent was simply to clarify some recurring misconceptions. Please don't hesitate to direct your questions towards me. Joe (Tommy DiNic's)