[More to Southern cuisine than barbecue]

QUOTE "I will say, however, that in the Carolinas, the mustard-based and tomato-based sauces, however delicious they may be, mask the flavor of the pork. In my experience, only the eastern NC sauce, which is little more than vinegar and an assortment of peppers, actually enhances the flavor of pork." END QUOTE

not to be arguementative , but the above quote seems somewhat puzzling - can everyone in an entire state be incorrect???? thx for helping us understand . & btw, a bbq "place" , not joint would NEVER serve hushpuppies, fried okra?, or baked beans. WOULD normally serve bbq, bbq ribs, slaw, wonder bread or buns, hash & rice, sweetened tea, pickles (maybe) & texas pete on every table, which normally would be uneven!!

most places are pretty much outside the mainstream, somewhat nameless, but known by the owner/bbq'r's last name, & generally hard to find. would never deny the great Q in NC, but quel horror, they don't have the full monte

[More to Southern cuisine than barbecue]

well-said kpurvis.

a bunch of us south carolineans might have to come after you! SC rural???? hey, have u ever been to florence, orangeburg, st. matthews, etc

& IF u are a TRUE Southerner, u would NEVER mention brisket, bbq, & the South in the same sentence!!!!

FYI: SC bbq is mostly about pork shoulders/boston butts, & sauce- characterized as follows:

mustard-based from center of state, the " midlands", down through the "low-country" in the southern part of the state;

vinegar & pepper-based in the northeast, around myrtle beach;

tomato-based sauce in the northwest, i.e., "upstate"; &

ketchup-based sauce in the river counties, the Pee-Dee, along the western border (what do they know? )

now thats pretty clear, n'est-ce pas? good Q SHOULD be hard to neatly classify!!!

&, it is also true about sweatman's - it IS out-of-the-way, i know, i've driven way out-of-the-way to get there, but of course, it was worth it!!!! but hell, sweatmans's is not even the best!!!!

&, by-the-way, who in his right mind would EVER want to go to charlotte or atlanta???

& lastly, would be quite difficult for mr. claiborne to visit, in that he had passed on to that great BBQ PLACE above!!!

[More to Southern cuisine than barbecue]

this is a great thread. question: how come no one mentions Q from so. carolina? seems most, if not all, the comments above deal only with Lex, NC & environs, "as if" that is the only area worthy??!!

seems cooking Q involves both the meat cooked INdirectly over preferably pure hickory &&& HOW the meat is treated. the so-called purists would have u believe in dry with vinegar-based sauce added after. however, basting with a mustard/vinegar-based sauce throughout, as well as injecting sauce as it cooks produces an amazing taste.

interesting as to sliced - vs - chopped/shredded - vs - minced - vs - pulled. personal preference is, if Q done properly, pulled seems to produce the best for sandwiches (plain white buns only!

hard for a true southerner to acknowledge Texas as part of the South - who started that anyway? & very difficult to understand the arthur bryant KC phenom, guess that could be attributed to calvin trillin's article. but, as an aside, did take a detour of ~ 100mi to partake. even bought the jar of sauce BEFORE ordering the sliced beef!! Q on white BREAD, slathered/"painted" with THE sauce. after 1 bite, gave the sauce to a tablemate, slugged down my iced tea, & wondered why i ever thought of venturing outside "THE SOUTH" for Q!!!

[More to Southern cuisine than barbecue]

born & raised n the south, but having lived "up north" for many yrs - i am still a southerner mentally & @ heart. to answer your question kpurvis - no 1 will ever come up with a satisfactory answer. particularly those who have never spent much time "down south", but somehow feel compelled to provide their insights (?).

its sort of like why is it there is not really a very parisian-like bistro in nyc? is it simply because we are NOT n paris? is it because that with most every french bistro here - u are greeted by someone, served by, table cleared - by those who are NOT french? is it because almost no one speaks french in all these faux pas french bistros? to save unnecessary replies, obviously there are a few - ex. - la goulue, but generally that statement is true. i'm hard pressed to think of 1 that is remotely reminiscent of sitting in chez josephine. one could say balthazar/pastis; one would not understand. they are movie sets with the wrong actors, orchestrated by a brit, no less! although both are fun, have buzz, but french - mais non!!

one may ask - what is the south? very few can even agree on that, ex. is texas really southern??

regarding the best food ever "invented": bbq - what defines that delicacy? pork? beef? sauced via: vinegar-based? tomato-based? mustard-based? dry or wet ribs? cole slaw on bun or as a side? potato salad? white bread? sweetened or unsweetened tea? etc, etc ... the fact is - it's more of a "feeling" - tactile in nature, like tannin; either u have it or u don't. if u don't, one can't begin to comprehend what makes a "southerner" whether they live n nyc, paris, or camden, south carolina.

southern food, for some reason, is hard to travel. sylvia's, which many think is southern, is more about a history involving a cultural background, but that is way too deep to present here. jezabel's would be somewhat in the same category. blue smoke is, well "a joke", but danny meyer has been successful, so i guess no one really gets that joke. virgil''s? also a joke - no self respecting southerner would have a bbq "place" (not joint, btw) serving so many different bbq presentations; sort of like a cantonese, shanghai, szechuan, bejing restaurant under 1 roof!

somehow, southern food is considered not cosmopolitan enough, or perceived as simpler food. but oddly when people frequent restaurants in savannah & charleston, they rave & wonder why they can't succeed in manhattan. 1 case-in-point: several yrs ago on the uws, 'memphis' served a southern oriented menu which was excellent > went out-of-business!!?? even with a name chef (bill telepan)!! new orleans-style restaurants don't seem to be able to make it here - why not? so what are we left with: an amazing # of italian, chinese, greek, latin, indian, japanese, deli's, & fast-foods places + a sprinkling of french & upscale american.

so, my answer is: i go to france when i want french, i go to the "real" south when i want "real" bbq, i go to new orleans when i want - ummm - my new orleans' fix, i to to joe's when i have to have stone crabs.

so kpurvis, what will it take? AIRPLANE TICKETS!!!!!

[a rump and a dozen]

i usually don't reply, but your q sb answered accordingly: claret is england's term 4 bx. that's it.

[NYC Smoking Ban]

O pity those who doth NOT protest beforehand. the ban is here, the smokers are gone, bars will close or do less biz or become disney-like in nature. there is no turning back! wishful thinking - compromise?? be careful what one wishes for, sometimes the antidote is worse, n'est-ce pas? the time to have thought this through & acted has passed. ice cream sundae anyone? its absurd to suggest the one now suffering is the single mom, blah, blah, blah, etc... & those establishments should be supported carte blanche!

there were & are a number of reasons why people frequent bars, one of which, is to have a drink & smoke before going home, meeting others, etc, etc... now we will see the % of those who frequented for the socialality & a "cigarette"

[Jacques Pepin]

interesting thread. how does 1 begin? somehow in so many restaurants/bistros/brasseries/cafés in france, they just seem to do it right. for some reason, in nyc, it comes off, more often than not, as oafish. why? je ne sais pas?

it does seem odd that pepin would make such a statement, but then again it seems odd he has not visited more *** rests??? only speaking for myself, i love experiencing all types of places in paris, etc... & even though the *** restaurants i have eaten in seem outrageously hi, i find the level of food so extradinary that somehow (?????) i don't mind the entry price!!!!!!!

[NYC Smoking Ban]

=mark: cutesy dude spelling mon ami didn't know that phonetics r so hard 2 read

elyse: ditto

jeunefille: sort of like hitting your head vs. a wall, n'est-ce pas? why keep going 2 bars when everytime u experience sinus problems??????????????????

[NYC Smoking Ban]

n addition 2 my above comments, pls read 2da's nyt's "letters 2 the editor" - pg A22

[NYC Smoking Ban]

this is obviously a very emotional issue. no 1 n his rt mind could/would defend smoking; however, it does appear somewhat arbitrary 2 pass a "law" proclaiming smoking is longer allowed...

those who do not like smokey bars, should avoid going; solving THEIR problem & quit being so sanctimonious about saving OTHERS. save yourself & let others determine what they prefer.

as 2 costs of dealing with smoke related health - no 1 has yet been able 2 arrive @ any accurate figure. so, i doubt if any1 here is capable of doing what no others professionally have not been able 2 do. the ENTIRE healthcare issue is the MOST heavily debated issue n the USA 2day & nvolves huge questions, which again, NO 1 HAS BEEN ABLE 2 ANSWER; hence the ongoing debates. it strikes me odd that those who argue here, argue/debate n the wrong forum, & typically with little knowledge, but nevertheless "feel" they have the answers!! write/speak 2 your congressional representatives & make them do something nstead increasing the federal deficit. i wonder how much money is wasted with add-ons to necessary bills. if any1 really wants to tackle a serious issue, try that 1 on for size. smokers' rts pale n comparison. & while on the subject, i guess everyone is comfortable with being forced to adhere to our mayor's pet peeves than to addressing the whys of how nyc now all-of-a-sudden has such a HUGE budget deficit. no, every1 here is right - waste your time & energy on this issue than on the bigger picture.

as 2 less biz, early tallies do show less biz, with the most reasonable offered observation being people linger less, or where they used 2 arrive early for their food reservation, have a drink or 2 with smoking; now arrive @ restaurant WITHOUT having those 1-2 drinks beforehand, i.e., less bar biz.

its dreadfully clear, that those who do NOT smoke @ all obviously welcome the ban. those that smoke - OR -n many cases, smoke "socially" do not welcome the ban & spend less time & money n "bars" up 2 this point.

an interesting TEST: allow smoking past 11pm for a 2 week only period & compare revenues pre - vs - post, & the # of people who come out starting @ 11pm. of course, this would never see the lite of day, but nevertheless "may" answer the questions of business lost & whether smokers provide more business. as for the nonsmokers, they would probably be home n bed anyway being as sanctimonious as usual

[The revival of bread movement in France: Poilane]

j'agree, there r some things better left 2 nature. n fact, s/polane even export???

as 2 hediard, not liking certainly does NOT prove any pt, other than YOUR dislike. whether i LIKE hediard, makes no diff, except that when i am n the store, that means i am n PARIS!!!

[The revival of bread movement in France: Poilane]

LOL - i have flown & i what i find amazing is how an oligopoly can go bankrupt. but that is another thread. bread MAY be a special case, & not 2 b arguementative, BUT y'all must b kiddin???? i would not like 2 list the mutitude of foods that r flown n everyday 2 nyc from ALL OVER THE WORLD, & remain as fresh as if u were n hediard. i actually do NOT h/a fav bread here (nyc), but it would b an interesting exercise 2 follow the timeline of a pain fr eli zabar, tom cat, etc... of any artisanal bakery fr oven-2-retail outlet & compare vs a pain poilane fr factory 2 retail outlets n paris & beyond...

obviously, i would agree a fresh pain poilane from the oven on the rue du cherche-midi spread w/echire is hard pressed 2 match, but don't assume that n this da & time, products cannot b delivered freshly, etc :)

&, i might add lou, it may be a miracle as u say, but its certainly better than, as it used 2 b, by ship!!!

now about that six hrs n dog time...

[The revival of bread movement in France: Poilane]

with air travel, etc... why do u think that poilane is NOT able to deliver 2 the states, particularly nyc, the same pain as 1 experiences n paris. obviously, i am assuming we r comparing apples-2-apples, i,e., buying "freshly" delivered pains @ a fairway n manhattan - vs - buying a pain poilane @ the rue du cherche that has been sitting out, not fresh from the ovens, which, i agree, cannot b duplicated!

as an aside, i h/done an nformal study, & aside fr francophiles like myself, most seem 2 like pains made here much better than the pain poilane!!?? the restaurant i mention above gets its pain from a bakery n staten isle!

[The revival of bread movement in France: Poilane]

i buy pain poilane @ fairway, $4.99/lb. i have found that if u r able 2 purchase the 1st day it arrives on the shelf, generally 5 da b4 the printed expiration date, then u DO seem 2 get a full 3 days of "freshness". but, when it begins to "turn", u still have a fabulous base 4 croutons w/whatever is left!!

curious as to how those who have had "fresh" pain poilane n paris compare that 2 "fresh" poilane @ fairway?

as an aside, recently ate @ a newly opened little bistrot, part of a french chainlet around manhattan, Nice Matin, corner of amsterdam & 79th, where the pain is very, very good. unfortunately, they serve it w/herb butter soaked n olive oil. i say unfortunate because 1 has 2 h/2 helpings!!!!!

[Au Petit Marguery]

many merci's! i think i now finally understand. bux, in the link to the movie", it is "au ... in the title, which translates as "at the ...

in the body of the review, the restaurant itself is referred to as "Le ..., which obviously translate to "The...; therefore, it appears that the ACTUAL name of the restaurant is "Le Petit Marguery", but when one REFERS to "Le Restaurant", the "au" is used. WHEW!! now i know why i'm having so much trouble learning French!!!!

as to marguery, thx bux. seems like an odd name "The Little/Small White Sauce" ??

also, would be curious as to changes in quality since the departure of the freres cousin, who where, of course, the reason why the restaurant was so popular.

[Au Petit Marguery]

i do not. maybe u can help, s' il vous plaît?

a) what is the "correct" name: 'Le' Petit Marguery or 'Au' Petite Marguery - both repeatedly used

&

b) what does "Marguery" mean? closest i come is a trout marguery sauce, however, that is feminine, &

therefore, would not go with the masculine pronoun 'Le'; so i can only assume Marguery refers/means

something else.

merci beaucoup!

[Au Petit Marguery]

does anyone know their email address?

[New Orleans Trip Report]

what a terrific NO thread; however, somewhat difficult to piece together who/what are the BEST?

NO IS that "magical town"; therefore, somewhat difficult to separate the ambience from the cuisine, which are so intertwined; therefore,

seems like:

of the "institutions", arnaud's is slightly ahead. i have never eaten at galatoire's, but would go there 1st, & sit downstairs, & tell the waiter to order, just for the experience!!

of the "well-knowns", seems like acme/felix are musts, just for oysters & chablis (?), uglesich's, brennan's for their wine & bananas foster (great NO "combo", n'est pas?), cafe du monde just for the hell of it, central groc for their muffaletta's!, mother's for a carb overload

for the food, seems like bayona, brigtsen's

unfortunately, have not been in a while, so have left out newly opened restaurants/joints. but, appears to me one goes to NO "FOR" the ambience of the oldies & the traditional; but that is just my personal preference.

invite comments...

[Mass produced lagers]

was not going by the lager definition, just the nationwide availability.

[Mass produced lagers]

although sierra nev, nor anchor steam are not, supposedly, mass-produced, they are; however, available throughout the country; therefore, it would appear that either 1 could/should be at the top of many "readily available beer lists".

personally prefer sierra nev due to it stronger hoppiness & tastes + i believe sierra's sole concentration is on biere production vs anchor steam's larger product line: beer, gin & possibly other specialty items i am unaware of.

if anyone knows if sierra nev produces products, non-beer, i would like to know.

[What's your top price point?]

don't worry, this will be my last post. i find it insulting that u would take sides on an exchange - free speech? u mean your free speech! some site - u allow the pompous ass, "Chief Winsob" to continually dominate & browbeat, then when someone calls him on it, u come out of the shadows with your BS.

if u will objectively notice, the exchange did not turn until the Chief decided to attempt to browbeat further & then when he could not, it was the CHIEF that resorted to cheap attacks.

be that as it may, my comments have always been constructive, not self-serving, & if that is how u feel & prefer to perpetuate the superficiality, then so be it.

stefanyb: winsob is the official name for the wine snob society which is headed by the Chief Winsob who i believe u should be able to figure out on your own. if not, ask the F-G since he is so good @ clarification

[What's your top price point?]

merci, is that what u meant? pardon, i thought u were concerned with syntax. O. & i see chief winsob has chimed in from the peanut gallery, gee, what would we do without him.

love your restraint

[Wine Spectator Top 100 Wines]

sorry wilfrid, u can only be "Vice-Chief Winsob", the society allready has its "Chief", but u can supply the scantily-clad "invectives" at the next meeting

[Wine Spectator Top 100 Wines]

i just don't know - does the proverbial "chief winsob" have "foot in mouth disease" or just having trouble speaking intelligently & maturely??

[Wine Spectator Top 100 Wines]

how about recognizing the "winsob" society with Mr. P as the "chief"?

how about reviewing my ORIGINAL piece, then determining the differnce bet an invective vs a commentary? then how about reviewing subsequent comments to determine who led the commentary elsewhere with scantily-clad "invectives"!

free speech or free thoughts anyone????????????

& btw, i gather that wasn't French? anything to say about that F-G, or is that what u call just "maturity & moderation among our more "dignified" members?