baruch
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Posts posted by baruch
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silly me, i thought this was supposed to be a thoughtful discussion section, wrong again on egullet. unequal rules unevenly applied 
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this addresses some of the thoughts i have had re: the restaurant biz. obviously, 1 can NOT ignore the start-up costs, cost-of-capital, ongoing food & drink costs, overhead, labor costs, etc, etc... & i am NOT denigrating; HOWEVER,
no 1 is "forced" to open a restaurant, just as no 1 is forced to open a dry cleaners. where is it written that 1 "deserves" to make a profit simply by working hard, etc... there is no such thing in any business. what i would rather know are:
a) food costs are ridiculously low: a potato "costs" $ .10 & nyc restaurants charge $6!!!!
salad ingredients add up to $ .50 & charge $10
even when hi-end expensive food is purchased, the mark-up to customers is crazy!
so how come restaurants say they don't make $'s on their food??
b) drink: just had a remy VSOP last nite for $14!!!!!!!!!!! a bottle, @ retail, costs me $30 - much less when
purchased wholesale by a restaurant.
same for wine. beer, u ask: a bud "costs" maybe $.50, but we pay $6!!??
so how come restaurants say they don't make all-that-much on drinks???
c) labor?? when is the last time one looked into a kitchen, including hi-end. if all the personal had to return
to their respective 3rd world countries, then & only then would labor costs approach working wages!
a restaurant's labor costs are less than Nike's!!!
maitre d's - more should have graduated from jr hs.
only a very few restaurants have significant costs related to "real " professional help. besides the
entrpreneur/owner, just how smart does 1 have to be - its not exactly rocket science.
left with the chefs: ummm, i keep hearing how LOW the wages are, sooooooooo, how much ARE
these labor costs????
d) overhead costs: like running anything, "it is what it is" quit griping!!! i wish i didn't have to pay for MY
refrig costs when i am not using, i.e., fixed costs are just like - fixed costs!! it doesn't change from biz-
to-biz!!!
walk down any street in nyc - HELLO!!! THERE ARE TOO MANY FOOD PLACES - TOO MANY RESTAURANTS!!
where is it written that we need another restaurant? so, caveat emptor - if u can't take the heat, don't open a restaurant - go sell shoes, or life insurance.
IF U DO WANT TO OPEN A RESTAURANT, 1st work 50-75 hrs/wk for some jerk who treats u like crap for very little salary or peddle goods door-2-door; then be thankful u MAY have a talent for the kitchen.
i'm tired of hearing all the whining, i'm tired of overpaying for mediocre food & worse service, i'm tired of being overcharged for crappy wines, i'm tired of hearing about unsophisticated clienteles.
i'm tired of all the criticisms from restaurant people about how hard the business is. if more restaurants disappear, maybe, just maybe, the industry will wake up & provide a service that = the price!!!
if anyone disagrees with the above, try this riddle on for size: how come the restaurants that serve a unique product, provide excellent service, charge relatively reasonable prices for wines ALWAYS make money, a la chez panisse, french laundry, daniel, le bernadin, etc... & the ones that provide a commodity, provide descent service, don't overcharge ALWAYS make money, a la, the corner burger/pizza/chinese - vs - the ones that "CLAIM" to do the same, but actually provide arrogant service, overcharge for everything almost always lose money - le cirque - need i say more?
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nice matin update, & no, i do have any $ interest.
only interest is that it happens to be within the infamous 5-6 block radius that usually governs where people go to eat, outside of destinations places; or treat as "local" hangout distance.
last nite, sardines farci, followed by the plat du jour: braised rabbit ravioli; wife - roast chicken with mashed potatoes w/cheese.
all very good! personably think food is equal to, or better than, both ouest & aix, but purely individual.
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a fond adieu to 15-17% zins
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what's the use - if u would like the "last word" that's fine with me, but only 1 warning, the info provided above has many discrepancies.
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isn't it simple - burgundy for so long had a certain cachet, so they seemed to be able to ignore intelligent marketing. the other reason i would like to know: does burgundy have to b so expensive vis-a-vis cost? if so, so be it; if not, then with a weak economy, $ weakness, general world-wide gluts; hi prices will. for the foreseeable future, may not b as inelastic as the burgindians believe.
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My thanks as well, for reintroducing civility into this thread. Anytime a member feels he is too tired to be civil to another, may I suggest he take two aspirins and log on again in the morning. it never ceases to amaze me one's need to add their necessary "holier than thou" attitude comments that one feels they must add "as if" their observation is required; but when the proverbial shoe is on-the-other-foot, its the old "horse-of-a-different-color byline.
to set the record straight & hopefully end the matter, if one would take the time to re-read & comprehend the string, then the intent should be obvious, i.e., the statement "thx mogsob, several of your descriptions are incorrect. but too exhausted to correct" translates into "ACTUALLY THANKING mogsob & informing him that several definitions are, in fact, incorrect! but due to the time spent on a long explanations above, it just did not seem worth going back-&-forth ad infinitum.
i would humbly suggest that if one would like to sermonize, do it fairly across-the-board, then one's advice would be taken seriously, n'est-ce pas?
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thx mogsob, several of your descriptions incorrect, but too exhausted to correct. it is very clear, that different terms mean different things to different people & then throw in differences bet French & American = more confusion. anyway, i concede - all of u are correct.
have a safe & happy grilling memorial day w/e
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i can see you really didn't read my quite detailed several emails THAT I KNOW ARE FACTUALLY CORRECT. thats ok, most readers here are the same, sort of like talking without listening.
i'm too tired & have wasted to much time to continue, so i will leave u with 1 last factoid which is indisputable, but since u have either declined to acknowledge the above facts, i can only assume, you will ignore the following:
A PORTERHOUSE BY ANYONE'S DEFINITION IS THE SHELL + THE FILET!!! so if u had or saw something that did not have a t-bone nor the filet then IT WAS NOT A PORTERHOUSE - PERIOD!!!!
not worth going any further into any other discrepancies, i now realize it was a waste of time going into so much detail.
1 last word of advice: don't buy any bridges, don't play cards with a blind man, don't try to figure out who the patsy is, if u don't know - u are; & don't order a porterhouse if u don't know what it is
p.s. i'm not confused, only sorry for such a waste OF MY TIME thinking i was trading info with someone "in the know"
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sorry to be confusing & verbose, but this is a confusing subject with many different terms referring to the same &/or overlapping areas.
the rib section is just that. the loin is a separate section & where our clubs, t-bones, porterhouses, & filet mignons come from. you may be referring to the backbone/spine itself, but the rib section is not part of the loin, & is considered to be anterior to the loin, whereas, the sirloin section in american cuts is posterior to the LOIN.
that being said, a t-bone is, no question about it, is from the center section of the short loin, but with less of a tenderloin, i.e., a filet,
than a porterhouse, which is fr the rear (lg end of the tenderloin) section of the short loin, parts of 2 muscles : includes meat from the flavorful top loin muscle, the t-shaped portion of the backbone & the tenderloin, i.e., the filet. the "t-bone" separates the soft buttery tenderloin from the juicy top loin strip.
your statement, & i only mean this to be helpful, is incorrect:
"Porterhouse as I've seen it served in the USA is usually just a f'ing thick piece of sirloin. However translate this into French and it is Chateau briande which is the fat end of the fillet. "
a porterhouse is NOT "just a thick piece of sirloin", a chateaubriand is 100% from the tenderloin.
a chateaubriand is cut from the whole tenderloin, after the whole tenderloin has been removed from the short loin.
in american terms, the t-bone is not from the sirloin, but only from the loin section, & specifically from a cross section that includes both the top loin & the tenderloin which both comprise the short loin which is 1 part of the LOIN; when include the sirloin = voila > the total LOIN.
apparently, & reading-bet-the-lines, the French cut is somewhat different, i.e. the SURLONGE (sirloin) encompasses both the sirloin & the loin as one, vs an american chart which shows a distinct separation; therefore our sirloin is from the sirloin section, & our shell steak is from the top loin. whereas, a contre filet is the same as our strip, but a faux-filet is a small sirloin to us, but very similar to a strip to the French. however, as u know, sirloin here goes for $10/lb, & a strip is ~$17-20/lb. so a distinction is necessary both for economic reasons as well as quality reasons.
same example re: a T-bone: you are correct, IF u are using the French usage, but incorrect, with regards to a T-bone, if u are using the American usage. sounds to me that the French cuts are a little more general than the more precise American cuts as to where they come from on the carcass.
we may, in fact, be totally in agreement, but mixing & matching the US vs the French definitions of beef cuts.
& yes, i also prefer my loins to be SOUTH of my ribs
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how CAN u forget the BBQ?????????
sorry, couldn't resist
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THX
definitely makes sense; however, it was/is my understanding an entrecôte can be either bone-in OR bone-less, but refers to only a 1 rib cut; whereas a côte de boeuf, from same section, BUT is larger, i.e., 2-3 ribbed/boned. but, then again, that is why i am asking for help
a ribeye is actually a rib steak/entrecôte that has been trimmed & de-boned; therefore, leaving just the "eye", which is the rib section's equivalent to the loin section's filet mignon.
re: faux/contre filet - it does appear these terms may be interchangeable, odd as that may seem & not very descriptive; however, it does also appear that these do refer to cuts from either the rib section &/or the loin/sirloin section, not from the section BELOW the ribs. as i said above, for my purposes, i like to think of a faux-filet as a ribeye (from the rib section), & a contre-filet as a strip steak from the loin section. although, with all due credit to mogsob, it also makes sense that a faux-filet could also be from the sirloin section & is simply cut/trimmed to resemble a filet mignon in size. however, if, in fact, one subscribes to the French definition that the sirloin section encompasses BOTH the loin & sirloin areas, then a faux-filet would be interchangeable with the term contre-filet.
EUREKA! now its getting clearer!!! i guess logically:
a) 1st accept the French definition of the sirloin (surlonge) SECTION as the loin & the sirloin AREAS;
b) therefore, the faux-filet is in fact from the sirloin, just from the posterior end;
c) & therefore, the faux-filet is, as mogsob so elequently stated, a sirloin cut to the size of a filet
d) therefore, a contre-filet, is ALSO accurate in that it IS from the Sirloin, just from the loin AREA of the Sirloin section!!!
so bottom line: BOTH the faux-filet & the contre-filet are from the sirloin, just from different areas, & with the contre-filet being the better cut since it is from the loin area. as to my definition of a faux-filet being a ribeye, well, that theory now seems disproved!!!
WHEW!!
the sirloin, or surlonge in french, is, as u know, located posterior to the loin, according to American cuts, & is referred to as 2 distinct sections; however, i believe 1 of the confusing factors bet French & American cuts IS the term "sirloin" which i believe, in France, refers to BOTH the loin & sirloin sections as 1 vs. as we know them separately in US; therefore, the confusion.
but, i do know that the American cut, the "T-Bone" is similar to a porterhse, but it is from the center section of the short loin, but w/less of a tenderloin & usually cut thinner than a porterhouse, & has a beefier flavor than the porterhse, & is also known as the "cowboy" steak.
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thx VERY much mogsob, working together, just MAYBE these will be clarified. my knowledge, which obviously is limited, hence the questions, is as follows:
a) entrecôte is supposedly considered to be a rib steak; whether it is bone-in or bone-less, depends on
personal preference, i think.
not sure if there is a "strict"definition in France or not, as to when ordering or seeing an entrecôte on the
menu, whether it will be served with or without bone.
an entrecôte cannot be a ribeye, which is a cut much more similar to our strip (loin) - de-boned & trimmed,
the "eye" of the rib steak so-to-speak, & i believe known as a faux filet (i think???!!!). ALTHOUGH, your
definition of a faux filet being a sirloin cut to the size of a filet mignon ALSO seems to make sense!!????
b) a ribeye in the US, i thought, equalled a faux (i.e. "wrong" ) filet; however, your definition makes perfect
sense also. oddly, there are those who believe a faux filet = a contre-filet = a strip (a bone-less shell).
quite frankly it is very difficult to find anyone who can tell you exactly what a faux filet or contre-filet actually
is. each butcher, chef or foodie seems to have a different interpretation, hence the confusion!!!!
c) assuming an entrecôte = a rib steak, then i have also been led to believe the côte de boeuf comprised
of 3-ribs/bone, & as u state, it is normally roasted due to its size.
however, at l'ami louis, it is served as a steak would be, i,e. grilled.
my above description does strike "me" as logical so therefore, by deduction:
an entrecôte, by definition, would then = a rib steak BONE-IN
p.s. sirloin strip apparently does = a ny strip which is simply a shell steak bone-less. although, there are many who refer to a shell steak in the context of bone-in, or bone-less. spark's steakhouse here in nyc serves what they call a sirloin strip, which is actually a strip, i.e., a shell bone-less. i know this is confusing, & i don't know why the meat industry won't adopt terms that everyone will understand.
assume it has to do with tradition, different regions, etc, etc. for my purposes, i utilize the following:
a shell = bone-in loin cut a strip = a bone-less shell
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supposedly the "best" (??) gins for martini's are those with less alcohol, since one IS essentially already drinking straight gin!!!!!!
ex's: gordon's 40%... plymouth 41%... citadelle (although somewhat botanic)...boodles 45%
vs
those better suited for G & T's, i.e. higher alc %: beefeater's, bombay sapphire, tang = 47%, #10 @ 47.3%; plus the bombay sapphire & tang #10 generaly thought to have too many botanicals for martini's, better off in G & T's, i.e., the botanicals work with the schweppes, not against. preferably want a purer gin when downing martini's, with emphasis on the " 's "
my preference is the gibson - 1 of life's little pleasures
very important info, especially with PRIME G&T season approaching
QUESTION: what is the correct terminology when one would like to order a martini that is NOT "dry" or "extra-dry", i.e., a martini with more vermouth?
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can anyone explain:
a) what exact cut does one expect to receive when one orders an entrecôte in France?
IF the answer IS a rib steak, then it is "usually" bone-in or bone-less?
b) IF an entrecôte is a rib steak, & is with bone-in, then what is the difference bet an entrecôte vs a côte de
boeuf?
on the other hand, if a entrecôte is NOT a rib steak, than what...?
b) when ordering steak frites, in France, what cut of beef is "usually" served?
c) what exactly is a faux-filet, i .e., what is it's comparable american cut?
d) what exactly is a contre-filet, i.e., what is it's comparable american cut?
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kpurvis May 19 2003, 01:19 PM: still can't figure out how to use those damn quote boxes
"Aw, c'mon. Most we get into another of those "barbecue purity" litmus tests? If it's good 'cue to you, it's good 'cue. This is why I dread and avoid barbecue discussions: Because they turn into "my hickory stick is bigger than yours" spats.
You don't like hush puppies? That's fine. But sometimes a hush puppie is just a hush puppie."
WHAT "IS" LIFE WITHOUT a bbq "spat"???????????
2nd, well-made hushpuppies ARE awesome & especially good for your arteries
; however, "seems" more condusive (sic) for a basket to be sitting on a table in a seafood restaurant than in a bbq place, where the "piece de la resistance" is WHITE BREAD ONLY!! 3rd'ly: agree with "jaymes": the litmus test IS THE Q - beans, schmeans
4th: "anyone can smoke meat" WOW!!! anyone can prepare foie gras, but there does seem to be a difference bet an alain ducasse preparation & the rest of the world
& IF ANYONE CAN SMOKE MEAT, why isn't every smoked meat place very good?????? btw, smoking is not exactly the same as bbq'g, but then again what DO texans know besides overcooked steaks, country music, & football (?) ?????? HOWEVER, they DO, unfortunately, seem to know basketball, Spurs & Mavs!!!!! 5th: what IS the point of a dry rub???
might as well "smoke" a catcher's mitt 
6th: brunswick stew is "kind of a leftovers pot with bbq sauce" WOW!!
better not say that to a real georgian bulldog!!!7th: for a very interesting side with bbq, try hash & rice
just DON'T ask whats in it 
8th: the universal Q? what does define a REAL BBQ "PLACE": ITS THE Q - stupid!!!!!!!!!!! with as few sides as possible + the old southern drink - sweetened ice tea
LASTLY: A HUGE THANKS TO RANDY for THE bbq list link
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hard to picture hushpuppies @ a "real" bbq PLACE, more normally associated with seafood joints; but i guess thats indicative of NC bbq places
I've been to quite a few barbecue places in NC, and I would say 95% or more serve hushpuppies.
then, i guess, 95% of NC bbq "places" are somewhat suspect
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hard to picture hushpuppies @ a "real" bbq PLACE, more normally associated with seafood joints; but i guess thats indicative of NC bbq places
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WHERE THE HELL IN MANHATTAN ARE Y'ALL BUYING $25 FRENCH CHAMPAGNES????????????????????
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curiously, when the $ was strong & we had a strong economy, but with an overseas wine glut;
keep gouging & keep french wines high!!!
now, when the US economy is weak, with the same wine glut, but now a strong €, prices cannot be reduced for fear of shrinking profit margins from already high levels.
gotta love that intuitive reasoning!!
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SO FAR, within a group of 4 diners, all main dishes tried at Nice Matin were good-to-very good. restaurant still working out the kinks, but "seems" like an early winner (hopefully). full menu now being served.
pet peeve re: new "neighborhood" bistro: they very carefully pour wines-by-the-glass to make sure it is just the "right" amount vis-a-vis their allocated cost, & no buybacks, which seems odd for a restaurant trying to develop a regular crowd - in contrast to - an AIX, which is very smart that way. hate to say it for fear of being too criticized, but since no smoking, none of these bars are as crowded & something rakish seems to have been lost, but as i said, i don't need the holier-than-thou comments/replies.
hard to comment on ouest & jean-luc's policies: personally don't like their ambiances; ouest has none
& jean-luc just doesn't have that "je ne c'est pas" that either one has or one doesn't, & they don't! as to cafe lux, very sadly a non-event, as others have written here; food way overpriced for what they serve, overpriced & mediocre wines (& that's being kind) have both really kicked in at this legendary restaurant. the only thing left is its "buzz" from a hollywood dining crowd, ex's: pacino, liam & natasha, spielberg, etc, etc ... maybe THEIR food there is better
oddly the regular bar crowd rarely eats (?), & the others at the bar seem to visit for their proximity to the famous. the owner is the ex-wife of keith mcnally, but she seems to to treat the cafe as a cash cow living on its past rep. the day-to-day mgnt has blinders on & can't see the forest for the trees. sorry to see it go, but c'est la vie! supposedly, Nice Matin was given a good wine review by WS (although due to recent threads here that may not mean much
) & has received good early vibes with several newspaper blurbs appearing here & there. apparently, currently being visited by the food reviewers for the full review. assume they are aiming for a 2-star (?).will be interesting as to the type crowd that Nice Matin will attract, which usually defines a bistro's "character" - versus - the other bistro/cafe UWS competitors: aix - ouest - cafe luxembourg - jean-luc (?)
Nice Matin's owner(s) have a # regional french restaurants around the city + city crab, etc ...
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hey! if they would put tv screens on the speakers in drive-ins @ bbq places = hog heaven
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I WILL TRY TO TALK REAL SLOW AND WRITE REAL CLEAR FOR YOU TEXANS:
east texas, & yes i've been there, is about as southern as south beach; but its ok if you choose to believe otherwise
as to where the "west" begins, let's just assume the next stop after the mississippi river is san francisco!
hopefully, you will have been able to read this
and, as to "by the way your stuff's hard to read as a texan at poker night" presented no problem & i found it to be good shorthand for the mentally unimpaired
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its true!! the original question had to do with southern cuisine BESIDES bbq; however, the South has become so homoginized that 1 of the few things that really seems to differentiate it from the rest of the country is, in fact, BBQ + its speciality dishes within that circle, i.e., brunswick stew, hash & rice. when expanded "just a touch" u enter the world of frogmore stew, hushpuppies, & a few others. maybe the better question would be: what dishes would one feel more likely to eat in the SOUTH that are BOTH prepared like no one else can && are identified with southern cuisine????
travelling around the country these days, u are just as likely to be able to order a fantastic meal from a number of different regions which used to be associated within just 1 region. for example cleveland: multi-cultural in terms of cuisine offerings, ditto for a number of other cities serving excellent & varied foods from all regions around the US. now, one no longer has to be in the NYC, LA, Chicago axis to order "haut" cuisine.
therefore, & maybe unfortunately for others, but for me, i love the fact that when i travel below VA, i come to the land of milk, honey & BBQ which is prepared & served like no where else!!!! so, it may be unfair, the question may be a tired one; but the South & BBQ are so intertwined that to mention food to a Southerner, u invaribly are told where to get the best Q, not given directions to Elizabeth's or Louis's, etc, etc, etc.....
Restaurants: a bad business?
in The Symposium Fridge
Posted
thank u for responding in such a detailed manner. as a pt of reference i have invested in a # of businesses covering a fairly large variety of endeavors. ALL BUSINESS HAS COMMON THREADS REGARDLESS OF THE PRODUCT.