Pizza Napoletana
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Another good review whilst waiting for egulletters to come up with theirs
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Pizza Napoletana:
Buon Natale anche a Lei!
Kevin represents only one of a number of eGullet-home cooks in North America--and at least two European countries that are not peninsulas--who have developed a strong appreciation for Italian food, whether on their own, or as a consequence of travel, living abroad, watching television, or falling in love with an Italian. Perhaps we developed a passion for Dante, Giorgione, Umberto D, furniture designed by Memphis, or maybe even bicycling while growing up in a midwestern college town surrounded by quarries. Many of us do not have Italian backgrounds and are not fluent in your native language.
We are learning a lot, making do with what we have, sometimes in places where the supply of Korean, Japanese or Mexican groceries is substantial, but there is no Tipo 00 to be found. Cardoons? Forget it! Bottarga? Boh--let alone a wealth of artisanal products you might take for granted back home or even in the U.K. (From what I understand, Alberto may be having a harder time in the capital city of Scotland than I have in the capital of The United States.) Nonetheless, it's fun to try new things, experiment, document meals and see what others have done. I can only speak for myself, but I can say that I enjoy the genuine spirit of comaraderie and collaboration.
It was wonderful when Franci participated on a regular basis since she represents the point of view of an Italian with culinary training who is knowledgeable of a wide range of dishes prepared outside of her own native Puglia. She speaks her mind, yet often finds just the right way to teach me something I had not read in the sources at my disposal in North America. I think she might have even expressed disapproval or corrected a thing or two with grace. Perhaps my memory is inventive, but I am thinking in terms of how easy it is to instruct or offer a different point of view without a harsh, supercilious tone.
Your advice is welcome. Backhanded compliments? Well, I'm not sure that's what you're offering here, but you seem to have come to bury Caesar as you praise him. Why not be pleased that people in different parts of the world are cooking your own food?
As far as ricotta goes, I don't know how many water buffaloes were brought to North America during the Middle Ages. There is certainly not a sufficient number of meals prepared by residents of Boise, Idaho to keep a fresh-cheesemaker in business were she to specialize in sheep's milk ricotta. This factor is not unrelated to the reason it is hard to find a sharp, aged cheddar in Siena. I can readily buy a very good ricotta made from cow's milk at my farmer's market; Foodman makes his own. (Ada Boni's translated book on regional cooking suggests cottage cheese if there's no ricotta around.) Most people are perfectly satisfied with store-brands and will buy whatever is at the supermarket to make a very inauthentic lasagna with dried pasta, mozzarella and a tomato sauce they make themselves, with lots of garlic and fresh basil. They could care less about authenticity or whether their dish is faithful to Neopolitan or Bolognese practices. It tastes good to them and it's how their mother-in-law makes it--only better.
As for YOUR posts about ricotta in everything, I searched online and found that you made a valuable point about the gatto' di patate. That's the kind of insider information that is useful to have. As for the calzones, would it be fair to say that there is not one right way to prepare them? Here's one that doesn't involve greens, but eccola! The recipe calls for ricotta. While including the word "ricotta" in my search, I managed to find only one recipe for pizzette di scarola, and sure enough: no ricotta.
The type I've had in Italian-American street fairs were filled with mozzarella and tomato sauce. I never saw greens except in filled pies the size of large American pizzas. So, the published recipe Kevin used introduces something that might be less familiar to cooks in this country.
Pontorno,
My intervention, I believe in a polite manner, had the scope of clarifying some possible misunderstanding that could have arose from reading Kevin post.
Calzoni con ricotta a cicoli are as classic as the one with Scarola. The two together, however are not authentic and people off course can do as they please as far as they know that what they are doing is NOT authentic. I have visited the States twice,quite exstensivly, and could see that the word authentic is abused for things that were never conceive back in Naples. That is the root of any "corrective " post that I have written and I will continue to write in the future. I am sorry if this irritates you, but I can assure you that I will continue to do it as far as it continues to protect the knowledge of authentic Neapolitan cusine.
Going back to Kevin post, he said that he used Feta (good to make a point about his version) instead of the ricotta cheese , I and many I believe, would have assumed that ricotta then was included in the authentic recipe.... Well, no ricotta is included in Naples with escarole.
Off course there is a main version with ricotta (the main Calzone fritto is filled with Ricotta, mozzarella, and Cicoli, which is meat scraps from the production of homemade rendered lard), but pointing out at recipes on the internet would not be a very strong backing about your point (for example the recipe in the link you have included talk about ham instead of Cicoli, whilest if cicoli are not available, an authentic and best substitute would be Salame Napoli). This is even more frustating for me as even in Naples some places start selling calzoni filled with cheeper "Gammon" as Salami would have been to expensive...
Christmas pizzette fritte are made with scarola and there is one way to make them. Calzoni in general, could be filled either with scarola etc or with the above ricotta/salame filling. The focaccia type then would have included pinuts and raisins , and here we can say that some people also make it this way when making the filling for small pizzette, but again would not be authentic.
Finally, my small point about Bufala Ricotta (which by the way it is available in NYC quite easily), was inspired from a discussion with an old lady on the plane London to Naples, where she mention that the ricotta available abroad and even in other parts of Italy is always the industrial, sand like (her words) stuff.
No offence made, but I cannot undertsand why people would argue with someone else making sure that a so easily accesable piece of information contain the right authentic corrections... (for istance someone could have done your google search and found this post and believe that pizzette with scarola in Naples included ricotta...
Again have an happy Saint Stefan day.
Ciao
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The much praised (by me at least) fried calzone:
Stuffed with garlicky escarole, chilies, anchovies, olives, capers, and ricotta (though I use and prefer feta). Normally there's currants and pine nuts in there, but I like the bitter, salty onslaught of this version.
I guess the calzone gods heard me bragging about it or something; both split open when they were turned over in the oil. One lost a good measure of its filling in the process and had to be patched back together and finished in the oven.
Hi Kevin,
Well done on the pizzette di scarola.
Again I have to point out that No Cheese it is used in the original version (what do you guys have with ricotta everywhere , especially the commercial "granural" stuff).
Regarding the raisins and pine nut version, it does indeed exist but more often is made as a "filled focaccia" oven baked, a lard base dough, put in a square pan, topped with the scarola etc filling and topped and sealed with another piece of dough.
By the way, in Naples Ricotta means a creamy, most often Bufala milk made, cheese, not the prepacked industrial version.
Marry Christmas to you all...
Ciao
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It's a Mario Batali recipe from his Italian Holiday cookbook. I make no claims on authenticity on this recipe (or for that matter, anything I make these days
).Very nice! So are we celebrating X-mas early?
Actually also if I am not mistaken, both of Schwartz in "Naples at Table" and Kaspar in "Italian Country Table" include ricotta as well.
Althought I do not agree 100% with Schwartz adaption of the authentic recipe to American ready available ingredients, is book is largely based on the "Bible" of traditional Neapolitan cooking (J.C. Francesconi "La Cucina Napoletana") and the recipe of Gattó di Patate in "Naples at Table" DO NOT (RIGHTLy SO) include ricotta.
I know Batali has a great reputation in US, but for what I have seen and read, plus the meal I had at "Il Posto" in NYC, personally I do not think much of his cooking and recipes authenticity (e.g. Jalapeno Chilli pepper with a delicate meat such as crab....).
Ricotta IS NOT INCLUDED by anyone in Naples making their Gattó.
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Much as I love Emilia-Romagna cooking, for the Holidays there's certain dishes from Campania I've been making over the years that have become tradition and it just wouldn't be right not to make them. One dish I make to start up the feasting season is gatto, the savory potato "cake" that is, yes, a take off from the French gateaux (sp?). Mashed potatoes and ricotta are mixed together with salami and eggs, then layered with mozzarella cheese and finally baked. It's usually offered as a festive, feast-meal contorno, but I think there's so much going on it deserves to be the main, with maybe a tart salad on the side (that is, if you manage to restrain yourself better than we did and not go back for seconds instead of the salad!)
Edit: Forgot about the gatto discussion on page 3 of the thread. Sorry for the redundancies.
Nice looking Gattó. Just one thing: where did you get the info on the inclusion of ricotta??? First time I ever heard it and my Grandunt was a Gattó queen.
Ciao
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Well, I have recently received the DVD "Decoding Ferran Adria", so yesterday I decdided to warch it.
It was great, but it made me even more diappointed to have missed the opportunity to experience it first hand...
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I didn’t “get” the steak method: burn the outside with a blowtorch (for our lovely Maillard reaction), cook on low for ages (don’t want to denature those proteins), cut off the outside of the steak, fry it again.
The Maillard reaction as induced by a blowtorch is a surface reaction. Why brown the surface of the meat, cut it off, then brown it again?
Although he does mention the mailard reaction when using the blow torch, the focus at that point was to kill off the germs and bacterias from outside of the meat.
I think is a good point as the benefit of low temperature cooking (50C) may be overshadow by food poisoning (a safe temperature would be 63 C and above). Also, in US for example, the Gastrovac has encountered problems with the health official due to low temperature cooking and bacterias...
On the other point of his 20 hours cooking... This is easily answered by all the followers of H. McGee, H. This and also Blumenthal early work on slow cooking benefits
I really enjoyed the programme.
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Marlena,
I am from Naples, so I know which places get tourist attention (and prices to reflect that) and which instead are visited by local and have the best value term.
The food at l'europeo is just traditional stuff overpriced. I did say it seams excellent, but on the other hand the Pizza is disgusting and that place was born as a Pizzeria first and then a restaurant. Now it is the way around.
Anyway, my observation on breads were general, were not referring on what you may o may not have said. There are a lot of publications that state that (about the microflora being unique to San Francisco), so I just use the opportunity to state that.
Take care
Marco
never eaten pizza there. the dishes that i have eaten, however, have been very very good.am confused about it being a "tourist trap"? i've never seen any other foreigners when i've been there, though once the owners showed me the business card from a group of american food writers........there are many plates and doodahs and tsotskis on the walls, so i guess you could call it touristy that way.........i'm scratching my head thinking about all of the dishes i've eaten over the years that I thought were prepared really beautifully there, and your assessment of the place.
but i didn't eat the pizza........
re: the breads of apulia and naples and san francisco. my observation was not based on the microflora, rather on taste assessment. it is of course interesting that the microflora of sf sourdough bears a striking resemblance to bread from Puglia....... still, as much as the bread in puglia is totally wonderful, to my taste the good bread in naples area is closer to s. f bread than pugliese. at its least they are neck in neck. it is the texture of the crust, too, as well as the succulence of the inner crumb.......this has nothing to do with what "people in san francisco want to believe", i'm not sure where you got that from as its only an observation on my part. i've not heard anyone else mention it before,nor did i allude that i had.
frankly, i think the bread in puglia and napoli are both so good, that each area is worth the trip for bread alone. san francisco too, but you have to look a little bit harder for the real good stuff in s.f.....when you do, you'll be rewarded.
ciao,
Marlena
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my favourite restaurant in naples, one i keep coming back to, is Europea, across the big street and down a little bit of an alleyway or littleish street, from the naples chamber of commerce......near where they are building one of the subway stops. i'm sure you can google it. it might be l'europea.
really delicious homey food, and if you go there when squash blossoms are in season, you MUST get some. i love their pasta con le patate......good mozzarella.....i've never looked at a menu, rather gone with a group of people and simply ordered lotsa stuff. lots of really yummy stuff.
marlena
ps the bread in campania and especially naples is really excellent. it reminds me of san francisco sourdough at its best.
The Name is "L'EUROPEO di Mattozzi", owned by the Mattozzi family. It is a tourist trap in my opinion, althought the food seam excellent, the Pizzas are very poor, almost disgusting. I is a shame as they have a very old oven built over 70 years ago which at some time may have delivered very good pizza. The prices are too high too for the food level.
Pane Cafone is top class in Naples, especially when still coming out od a wood burning oven. The best breads are from Ischia (NA), Montevergine (AV), San Sebastiano (NA) and Montecalvo (AV) that with no offence to anyone, are way better that the San Francisco stuff. By the way, contrary to what people in San Francisco want to believe, the microflora of their dough is also found in Apulia (south Italy), which suggest that the original baker may have brought over a starter from Apulia....
Ciao
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Fratelli La Buafala is a chain and also with a good marketing story, which is in fact a lie. they now have branches in MIami and London.
I am glad you liked Da Michele.
Ciao
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I've received my NO, but with a long, polite explenation which I really appreciated.
I'll try in the season for last minutes cancellation and if lucky, will get a plane in and out....
By the way, Am I right to assume that El Bulli is closer to Girona Airport rather then Barcelona???
Thanks
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By the way, Timh,
I have read that you were interested in Baba and you had assumed neapolitan and French version were the same. neapolitan are different and here is a post were I have mentioned it:
Sorry cannot discuss my recipe
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Wow, who then would you consider an authentic pizzeria? I am thinking of the place in Arizona(Phoenix?) I've read about before.
Il Pizzaiolo-Pittsburgh - PA
Bettola (this post)
Probably Settebello in Las Vegas when they instal the new Oven and have heard good things about Spacca Napoli in Chicago.
I believe you are talking about Chris Bianco in Phoenix: For his own admission, he is not trying to do an authentic Pizza Napoletana, jus his own take on Gourmet Wood Fired Pizza.
Ciao
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I really enjoyed the programme. It is something new for the mass and is not too long. I didn't think that egulleters would watch that programme to learn new recipes.. instead, I think "we" foodies should concentrate on the scientific aspects, to get inspired, not to copy him...
Anyway, someone early has mentioned McGee... Let's not forget that Heston got inspired by reading McGee, so I would not put them on the same level... McGee's "On Food and Cooking" has been around for much longer and inspired and taught many chefs and cooks around the world. McGee and Harve This are scientist/writers. Adria, Blumenthal, Gagnaire etc are chefs...
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I must say I agree with you, on all points. I guess my point is that there needs to be some sort of standard to measure by. I'm always a little leary of any authenticating organization, but they are at least setting standards.
I'm the chef of a little enoteca on the south shore in Ma. We are not a pizzaria, but I offer two, a margarita, and a del giorno. My mgr is from just outside Naples, family owns a bakery, and we use as our standard Da Michele, near the familiys home.(We make our own mozz also, this was the hardest to achieve consistency) Currently we have only a gas convection pizza oven(achieves 600 deg) I hace worked a wood burning oven before and hope to get on soon for here. I hope to open a true neapolitan pizzaria in the near future. One model I admire is Tutta Bella in Seattle. (TuttaBellaPizza.com)
The Standard idea is not bad and there is a second association which is authorised to promote the Pizza Napoletana stg. I am trying to get them involved in USA.
I know quite a lot about Tutta Bella, and can say that their pizza is nowhere an Authentic Pizza Napoletana. They use the wrong Oven and an industrial approach for some aspects. Pizza Napoletana is an artisan product
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For neopolitan pizza the tomatoes must be San Marzano's D.O.P. (we use them, they are worth the cost),and mozzarella and garlic traditionally should not be combined as the delicacy of the cheese is overpowered. The dough should be made with organic flour, fresh cake yeast, and only fresh mozz and herbs. This is in accordance with the Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana.
Timh,
I would use the word "must" carefully. It is nowhere written that the San Marzano tomatoes must be DOP and in fact noone in Naples use the certified variety. It must be San Marzano's seed varietal tomatoes grown in the Vesuvio area, but many producer do not have the DOP certification and still produce outstanding product. As matter of fact, the ONLY producer using the authentic San Marzano varietal (no the San Marzano 2 Hybrid), is not certified.....
The flour is not organic, just "natural" as it doesn't have the additives so comon in US milled flour (Bromated, ascorbic acid etc). Also Natural Yeast (AKA SOurdough starter) CAN be used.
Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana, at least in US, just seam to be out there to make money, I cannot see their philosophical, protective status for the Authentic Pizza Napoletana, when they do not "require" their members to use an Authentic Neapolitan Pizza Oven (this time really should say "must be the neapolitan one and not jus a wood fired oven) and also allow their members to use Hobarth or other Planetary mixer, which are nowhere "indicated" to make Neapolitan Pizza dough.
I am not trying to open an argument but Pizza Napoletana is My Heart...
Ciao
PS which pizzeria do you own or work in?
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I got the book (50% off on Amazon). the series is starting today (I believe) at 20.00 hrs on BBC2 (30 mins show). Not a recipe book (there are few) but an insight on his approach and philosophy of cooking.. (Unami etc...) Unfortunatelly, he decided to cover Pizza Napoletana and due to the source of information, he added himself to the list of writer that made confusion on the subject, my favourite subject... I'll record the whole series anyway...
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not the best brick oven pie I have ever had, but a viable and competent effort.
Menon,
Can you expand on that? What was the best pie? what was positive and what was negative about Bettola's pizza in your opinion?
Is that something to do with Neapolitan vs NYC style?
Thanks
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I am not sure, check this out and/or give them a ring:
http://www.birminghamweekly.com/archived/p...061026_food.php
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This is one I made today:
Calzone al Forno
And this is a cross section (Please note the airy/fluffy crumb):
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Small birds are extremely popular in Italy, to the point that places like the Tuscan countryside are strangely silent (somewhere in my Tuscan blog, there is a photogrpah of some sparrows on sale). There is a whole range of dishes that reflect this. Either things that would go with cooked small birds or dishes that have some resemblance to the cooked birds.
"BECCAFICO" cannot be caught anymore. It is forbiden by the law, but in some places they still do. It is actually a migratory species and it is not really the Garden Warbler
Ciao
Il Pizzaiolo, Pittsburgh
in Pennsylvania: Dining
Posted
I had their pizza last week and is now better then ever. No 1 Pizzeria in America.
If you haven't been there yet, now is the ideal time to visit.