Robert Schonfeld
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Posts posted by Robert Schonfeld
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Priscilla, Well, it seems we share the dream of a wood fired brick oven. One day, hopefully sooner than later. Meanwhile, yes, I'm talking about another layer of tiles right on top of the first layer. For a few bucks, a worthwhile experiment, no?
Rail Paul, I'm not surprised that your mix works as well as the 0-0 stuff, and for a lot less money, too. For pasta, semolina is often called for, and that's a high protein flour. For me, handmade egg pasta is just as easily done with all purpose flour. Again, I think plenty of resting and gentle stretching are the key.
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Priscilla, I use regular good old unbleached white flour, with a little pastry flour mixed in. I don't bake at all with high gluten flour for a couple of reasons, mainly because the stuff needs to be very thoroughly developed. I mix my doughs by hand, and getting high gluten flour to where it needs to be by hand is just about impossible. In a home kitchen, you'd need to let your Kitchen Aid or your Kenmore really run to get something like the right effect. Along with the brick oven, I fantasize about a little Hobart all my own. Second, I don't bake the kinds of things that specifically require high gluten flour, like bagels.
For the professional pizza baker, there could be an advantage to using high gluten flour mixed and developed mechanically. But it's my understanding that the Italians use something called - in Italian, obviously - "double zero" flour, referring to the amount of ash remaining when a sample is burned, and indicating that the sample is low in protein, or "short extraction" flour. If this is indeed true, then the use of high gluten flour in New York pizzerias may just be a matter of a convenient method of production.
I should add at this stage that I am emphatically not a technical person, and I'm certainly not a cereal chemist. My technical knowledge is limited to that which will get me the result I want. I resentfully learn as much as I need to know to make my bread, but I'm not interested in technical knowledge for its own sake. There is a very large population of technical nuts in the baking field that will either drive you stone crazy, or make you very happy, depending on your orientation. I'm a subjective, rather than an objective type, whichever side of the brain that is.
I appreciate the question, though. I will ask one of my Italian food correspondents about pizza baking in Italy, and will let you know if I get a useful reply.
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Here's a summary of a recipe from Carol Field, The Italian Baker, Harper Collins, 1985. I recommend the book if you're really interested in Italian baking. She writes extenisively on pizza, among many other things.
Proof a package (about 2.5 tsps) of active dry yeast in 1/4c water. Make a dough with about 5.5c flour (the amount of flour will vary with your environment), 1 3/4c water, 1 tsp salt, 1 tbsp olive oil and 1 tbsp lard if you can get it, otherwise, use more olive oil, which will give the dough a different character, but still ok.
I don't subscribe to Field's instruction to slam the dough in order to develop the gluten, but if it makes you feel good, by all means, make yourself feel good. A thorough kneading will do fine.
Use cold ingredients.
Allow to rise until doubled, hopefully around eight hours if you've used cold ingredients. If the dough is rising too fast, turn it our and deflate it gently. I would do this a couple of times anyhow.
Turn out the fully developed dough, shape into three balls, allow to rest at least 30 minutes.
Shape each ball into a disk by gently stretching it, top and bake at 550 degrees.
Tip: use oil or water on your hands to make handling the dough easier. Don't use more flour. The dough should be very soft and bubbly.
Makes three crusts about 14 inches each.
Good luck. Let us know what goes on.
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I do know about the Hearthkit, Steve, and it seems like a good device for those seeking a turnkey solution. I agree with the statement that restaurants without deck ovens may find it useful, abeit perhaps a bit small. I bought unglazed ceramic tiles for about five dollars. Love 'em. I'm thinking of adding a second layer.
There's no doubt that certain kinds of cooking done on a massive heated surface will produce superior results. I still harbor the fantasy of a custom built wood fired brick oven, and the time to use it properly.
Another reportedly really good gizmo is La Cloche, a terracotta container for baking. Cheapskates recommend a flowerpot with a rigged up lid as just as good.
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To what degree is your pleasure in a restaurant experience affected by the physical surroundings? Is it important to you that the setting for your meal be commensurate with the food being offered, and/or with your expectations? Do you care where you sit? Do you go out of your way to obtain a certain table? Do you ask for another table if you are displeased with the one you've been shown? What about noise? Temperature? The comfort of the chairs? Would you be happy with a great meal at a bad table? Would you be happy with a so-so meal in a great room at a great table?
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Matthew, try a lower protein flour, or adding a little pastry flour to your regular flour. Gently turn the dough out several times during its rise and fold it over a few times. Don't punch it or bang it on the counter. You want it to become real stretchy (extensible, but I like real stretchy better).
Before you form the crust, allow the dough to rest at least a half hour if your kitchen is around 75 degrees farenheit. If it rests longer, so much the better. If your kitchen is cooler, allow a longer rest.
When you form the crust, do so by gently stretching the dough, not by rolling or pulling. If the dough seems to fight back, cover it and let it rest some more.
Bake at the highest temperature your oven will allow, preferably on a thick stone or unglazed ceramic tile surface. A "pizza stone" is of little use.
I've seen pizzerias here in New York using All Trumps high gluten flour. I can only explain this by reference to all the sitting around the dough does, allowing the gluten to deteriorate. Stretching and resting is what it's all about.
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I'm sorry for the continued detour, but I wanted to let Tommy know publicly that the Bangkok Grand Palace is indeed still there; it's the Thai Orchid, on the next block, that has gone.
For some reason, I've had a blind spot about Bangkok Grand Palace, even though it's so close to me. So, Tommy, what's the word on it (maybe in a new topic)?
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Tommy, that Thai place has been long gone - more than a year.
I don't know if you'd call it bad luck or not, but my wife and I spent about a week in Thailand about ten years ago. The food was such a revelation that it has completely overshadowed almost all Thai food I've had since in the US. Exceptions: Arun in Chicago, and that unspellable, unpronounceable place in Woodside.
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That's my neighborhood, Rachel. The Metropolitan Cafe is, I think, one of Alan Stillman's (sp?) places. It is very cleverly devised to fill a neighborhood need for composed salads, pastas, basic fish and meat. I would call the food unobjectionable. You won't be unhappy, but you won't remember much, either.
The Beekman/Sutton area is notorious for just such places, offering the food equivalent of television's "least objectionable program" strategy.
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Anyone have an opinion on The Praline Connection? I had some perfectly fried okra there. Is Acme Oyster Bar too touristy?
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how do you amuse yourself?
People watching. For me, nothing's better.
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This discussion brings to mind an old New Yorker cartoon:
A man is saying his prayers before bed. He says: "Lord, I don't ask for much, but what I get should be of good quality."
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Bugialli and Hazan both have several very good recipes for basic tomato sauce. The most basic for cooked sauce is: ripe plum tomatoes in a pot with a few leaves of basil and a little salt. Cook til done, pass through a food mill. I do this all through tomato season and it's excellent. From there, you can progress through versions using "odori" (onion, carrot, celery sometimes garlic), suateed with the tomatoes and sauteed before the tomatoes. Broth and wine are also involved in the winter version using canned tomatoes.
If you like cheese with these sauces, the water problem can be solved by stirring some grated parmigiano in, off the heat, before serving.
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Do New Yorkers believe that, along with being the New World's pinacle of culinary and all other civilization, they and perhaps San Francisco are the only refuges from supermarket white bread?
No, but New Yorkers - real ones, born and raised here - will tell you that New York ain't New York for nothin', and if you don't like it, well, fuggedaboudit.
There is, however, a very good community of artisinal bakers in New York and surrounding areas, specializing in breads made without commercial yeast. What are some examples of local Philadelphia breads, Holly? Do they bake sourdough there? What are the names of some of the bakeries?
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Wilfrid, Once, when my wife and I walked out of Cello before even sitting down due to the amazing arrogance they exhibited in failing to honor my request not to be seated looking at the swinging kitchen door ("But sir, this is our best table."), and tried to seat us in the bar, where dirty dishes were being piled up beneath the floral arrangement, we dashed around the corner to Payard and snagged a late table, where we had a wonderful time.
A very long sentence to say that your two current threads have something in common for me. I think early and late can both work in favor of the solo diner, or the diners who don't have a reservation.
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Wilfrid, I don't blame you for black-marking restaurants that won't take a reservation for one, although I can understand not doing so at peak hours when the house knows its deuces will all be taken. When I travel alone for business, I like to go out to eat, and I like to sit at a table. It's worked best for me when I reserve early. That way I can watch the place fill up, and give them back their table in time for their crowd. As you say, a table with no one at it produces no income at all.
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Steve, I don't hold myself out as an expert in Italian food, or in any kind of food, for that matter. What I do have is a lot of experience eating Italian food, and a pretty good memory for it, especially the "cucina casalinga", or home cooking, which often finds its way into local restaurants.
I mentioned on another thread that Italian cooks and diners would be nonplussed by most of the intense conversation dedicated to terroire. To them, it's all part of living each day. Their own intense conversations, usually held over a meal, revolve about where the next meal will be and what it will consist of.
I think I also mentioned elsewhere that, as in art, simplicity is extremely difficult to achieve. Sitting by the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, the roasted potatoes with rosemary may seem logical, effortless, quintessentially of their time and place. At Craft, a similar preparation, I have the impression, comes loaded with import (and expense), and this may be because the dish and all that is behind it, is somehow out of its time and place; that is, not simple. I'm not sure I'm being clear about this, but I'm not sure either that I have the strength to be any clearer. I would just add that the piece of huckleberry pie I had at a diner in Silverton, Colorado last fall was perfect in that modest way I'm getting at. It resonated in harmony with its surroundings. It was $2.50.
Are our guys here in NY aware of what they're doing? Good question. I think Batali is, but then, he's running Italian restaurants and calling them that. If what Chef Colicchio is doing at Craft is something new in the direction of cuisine in America, then maybe I should keep quiet and try to learn from others smarter than I am what that direction is, and what he's trying to do. Maybe if he reads this, he will help me and us to understand. Most of all, can't wait to go there.
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This first bit is somewhat ot, but in reply to Robert B:
Marilyn Simms was not directly involved with the RW exhibition, so I did not have the pleasure of working with her. We have met, and I found her, as virtually all the Cooper-Hewitt staff, to be friendly, as well as highly professional. Working with everyone at Cooper-Hewitt was one of the most enjoyable and fulfilling experiences of my career.
A visit to Wright's house, Dragon Rock (in Garrison, by the way, not Hudson (which is the location of Olana, Frederic Church's house), and especially the 80 acre landscape surrounding it, designed and built entirely by Wright, is an extraordinary experience. It's my feeling that it is the most exceptional example of a 20th century estate in the tradition of the great estates of the Hudson River Valley. Sadly, it is in a poor state at the moment. Nevertheless, if you want to see something unique, exciting and inspiring, it's well worth the trip. Take the train and enjoy the fabulous views of the river on the way.
More to the point, a thorough education in American landscape design and architecture will favor a visitor to Wright's house more than one who goes untutored. Likewise, a few minutes in front of the Mona Lisa, or Thomas Cole's Oxbow will, imho, be a deeper experience with an education and an experienced eye in one's background. Otoh, knowing that chef Colicchio had a model or an inspiration, or a set of influences for Craft might well enhance one's understanding of how and why the restaurant came to be, but I agree with those who say that it would have little impact on whether I have a good time there. Of course, those who know me know that I would bitch about the real Italian deal, but this is as much for my own amusement as anything else, although anyone who hasn't had the experience I've been lucky enough to have had is lacking an important contextual element. It's my personal opinion that a lot of New York City diners, even well- experienced professionals, haven't had it, and it shows.
With respect to the idea of intention, I think in the case of Craft, it is useful to know that its intention is to present the best available ingredients in simple preparations. Fine. I will go there - and I will go there - expecting exactly that. If I get it, in pleasant surroundings, with good service, I will be happy. If I don't, I will complain about it. I see this as a fair outcome of the bargain made between restaurant and customer: the restaurant reasonably offers something; I reasonably expect to receive that something in return for paying for my meal. I'm entitled to express my opinion of my meal, and the better equipped I am, the better able I will be to communicate my feelings. So, some context, yes; some intention, yes, but I also agree that the proof indeed is in the pudding. Why else would thay have made up such a silly expression?
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Their intentions, including the opaque one of modeling one kind of restaurant after another kind of restaurant, is irrelevant to the basic experience.
Robert, I'm curious to know whether this is also true of the experience of viewing a work of art? Is it useful to know something about the environmental factors - social, political, economic, among others - out of which a work of art arises, or is it sufficient for the totality of the experience to be in the viewing? Could it be that some people get enough for themselves from the "basic experience", and that others benefit more from a wider and deeper knowledge? Could this also be true for eating in a restaurant? I'm not suggesting that knowledge of the intentions of the chef or the restaurant would affect the quality of one's experience, but rather asking whether another set of intellectual and/or contextual tools might be useful to some diners, as they are perhaps to some viewers of works of art.
Btw, none of the foregoing should be taken as an implication that I believe that chefs are artists. I gather that can of worms has been tipped over already.
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Thanks to Steve for such a generous post. Do you just write this stuff out, Steve? I mean, it must take some time, no?
I have avoided Craft largely based on the fact that I am menu-challenged, although my wife explains to our dinner companions each time we're out that it amounts to nothing more than being a Jewish prince. Whatever the truth, I find complicated menus contrary to my notion of enjoyment at the table, and ultimately annoying, even pretentious. Which brings me to my second point, and to anyone reading this who knows me, I apologize in advance for being a one-note Johnny, or whatever the expression is. Here's my point: I've spent a great deal of time eating in Italy, especially in rustic, local restaurants, where the best available ingredients combined as simply as possible is a way of life, and where "contorni" - side dishes - are always offered a la carte. Craft sounds to me as if it has taken this time-honored tradition and wrapped it in a New York package. Every report is that the people behind Craft are the nicest, most sincere sort, and I have no reason to believe otherwise. Rather, it's the idea that such a simple idea, which is inherent in the culture in Italy, should be so complicated and so full of effort and obligation (and be so expensive) when presented in New York. Maybe there's no other way to do it. Maybe this explains why the kind of food and the kinds of places I so enjoyed in Italy simply do not exist here.
I have been warned by someone who is on intimate terms with Craft to stay away. But I'm intrigued, the more so after reading Steve's report. I want to go, but I want someone else to order for me. Call me a prince if you like, but I've had a lot of success with that method.
On the subject of the chef's reticence at participating in the thread on his restaurant, I'm just guessing that an artist might have the same reticence about participating in a discussion of his own work.
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Sherry Lehman has an aggressive promotion for this wine, for which they are the exclusive retailer for the introduction period.
Does anyone have experience with this wine?
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I can't cite the chemistry (maybe someone else here can), but brining definitely results in a moister, more tender meat. Something to do with the salt. I've done it with chicken and pork chops, never ribs.
Without a doubt, cook ribs "low and slow". Make sauce from scratch and serve it on the side. There's a zillion sauce combinations, undoubtedly available online. Making any of them amounts to little more than combining a long list of ingredients.
Better than store bought.
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Yes, Helena, without the machine. I've got this very impractical streak in me that always wants to do things the hard way. Nevertheless, once one gets the hang of it, it's pretty straightforward. As my grandfather used to say, "Anything's easy once you know how to do it."
You covered most of the good brands. From the supermarket, I always look for Di Cecco when it's on sale.
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Italian sources:
I love Marcella; her recipes are impeccable.
Bugialli is rigorously authentic, with many references to Italian innovations adopted by the French. (Bechamel is just one interesting example.)
Faith Willinger is a good expat Italian food nut.
The Art of Eating Well by Artusi, has been translated by Kyle Phillips, and is now available in English. Phillips runs the About.com Italian food site. He is excellent.
Anyone out there ever try making pasta entirely by hand? This has been one of my projects over the last few years.
Quirky things that happen in restaurants
in Restaurant Life
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A friend of mine opines that the quality of any given Italian restaurant is in inverse proportion to the size of its peppermill.