jmolinari

You CAN make guanciale and pancetta in a regular fridge. I did a head to head with 2 pieces of pancetta in my curing chamber, set at 50 deg. F and 70% RH, and the regular fridge, which runs about 36 degrees and 25-30% humidity. (Regualr frost free fridges run dry, usually too dry for cured meats, but ok for pancetta). They were pretty close in flavor, with the curing chamber one being a little more complex, but the fridge one was still really really really good. So, you can definitely make guanciale in the fridge. The little mini fridges are not frost free, meaning they run at whatever humidity is in there, if you have moist food, it'll be high, if you have dry stuff it'll be dry... SOme of those little fridges and regular fridges, you can remove the plate from the thermostat knob and there is a screw that blocks the knob from turning past a safe set point for a fridge (40 deg.), if you remove that screw, you can have it run warmer. Otherwise you can get an external temp controller box. Either way, back to the topic, you can make guanciale perfectly fine in a regular fridge. Instead of hanging it like he probably suggests, you can just put it on a cake rack on a plate. So that air can circulate around it, without it needing to take up hanging space. IT just takes up space on a shelf, flat. What herbs and spices does Batali use in this book? I have another one of his books, and it is only thyme, pepper and salt if i remember correctly... jason

Jackal, i assume you're cold smoking your belly and salmon? How did you set up your cold smoker? jason

Charcutier, i used the coppa. It is a specific piece of meat found in the shoulder (sometimes, depends how the meat packers butcher the meat, which makes it all the bigger pain in the ass to get!). Some people just use a hunk of meat out of the shoulder. Try to get a piece with nice marbling (even a lot is ok), but little connective tissue. If you go here: http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0005.htm at the bottom there is a photo sequence on getting the coppa out of hte shoulder, and what it looks like... jason

For 2 coppe each about 1 lb 14 oz. 140g salt 100g brown sugar 19g black pepper coarsely ground 8g cure #2 6.5g ground coriander 5.7g garlic powder 3g crushed clove 2g juniper berries 2g fresh bay leaves Massage the meat with this mixture and put them in a air tight container in the fridge. 9 days later remassage the meat. I didn't add any more cure, just massaged the meat in let them sit in their solution formed. 5 days later, i hung it in the oven with the light on (about 87 deg. F) for 12 hours. put in casing ( i used collagen) Put in curing chamber set at about 52 deg. F and 75% humidity. after about 4 or 5 weeks the meat should have lost about 35% of its weight (weight from after cure). I don't know about the need to put in the oven to "mature" for 12 hours, one of the 2 i made i didn't put in the oven, and i havn't tried it yet..so i don't know if they are any different

I just took 2 coppe out of hte curing chamber, they are my best yet! If anyone is interested in the recipe let me know.. jason

This belly with clove and orange looks awesome. I'd like the recipe too. jason

Here is my contribution to this cookoff. I made my pizza dough with a poolish base. It is excellent. Poolish fermented overnight, then devided the dough into 250g portions, and put in fridge. Took out of fridge 2.5 hours before using. Shaped, put on the tomato sauce and prebaked for 2 minutes, after heating oven at 500. I I also used the broiler, placing the rack/stones at their highest. So the intense heat from above and below make a nice crust. Anyhow, here is the pizza. I used prosciutto cotto and king oyster mushrooms. Sauce was just san marzano tomatos crushed (from costco), oil and salt. This next one is a granny smith apply, vidalia onion, mozzarella, and prosciutto crudo..first with no prosciutto, then with the prosciutto added...

I was going to say roast it chinese style. Slather it with a touch of hoisin and some ground toasted szechuan peppercorns. Make sure to prick the skin with a knife a LOT (like 100 times) all over, and rub it with some salt. Then roast it skin side up on a roasting rack....hmmmmm taaaasty jason

BBQ4, sounds about right. The wet cure/salting is done in a fridge, then you mature/dry in your wine cellar. Let us know how it turns out! jason

Generally it is supposed to be about 10% over the moisture content of the meat, or so i've read somewhere. For salame that is about 75% or so. I have my chamber set at about 72, and it cycles between 68 and 80 and everyhting works out. Pancetta does like it a little lower, around 50-60%, but i've made pancetta at the same time as salame, and it really hasn't been too much of a problem. Oh, there are RHs at about 50 deg. F... Are these the perfect ones? Don't know...they are what i use, and my meats come out great. jason PS: i use the same values for coppa and bresaola and lomo, basically everything at my house is cured at 50-52Deg. F, and about 75% RH.

Hey chris, when you cook your sticky rice, how long do you soak it for before cooking? I've heard anything from 1 hour to overnight! I havn't cooked any, as i always forget to soak it before using it, and i never have time. jason

Charcutier, please don't hold back any questions, i really enjoy talking about it,and love to help others with what i've learned... I'm FARRRRR from a master though:) So far yes, i've used only collagen, for a couple reasons. It doesn't smell, it doesn't require flushing, it is very easy to store (in a ziplock bag in a box), it is pretty cheap. I'm thinking of trying real casings on my next batch, but the problem is that i would need to buy a whole hank of beef middles or rounds, and it might be no better, and then i've wasted $20. I have read that in italy for certain salami, they use certain intestines because of the fat layer in the intestine. For example the fat in the hog bungs used in Salame Di Felino, apparently keeps the salame soft, even after it has cured. So that is really what i'd like to try..to see if it keeps my salame softer. Don't hesitate to ask more questions! jason

Thanks Yuki, so you use silken tofu? I'll have to give that a try next time. jason

Yeah, i guess i'll try that next...i wonder if i should simmer it first in water, or not... jason

I love Ma Po. A restaurant here in atlanta makes the best...but i'd like to approximate it at home. I'm basing this on Dunlop's "Land of Plenty"..the sauce is good, but i can't get the texture of the tofu right. I've used hard, medium and soft tofu, i've tried simmering it before using it (as Dunlop says to do), and also not, but my tofu always comes out a bit "spongy"...the one at the restaurant i go to is sort of slimy (in a good way), and soft and has a really nice texture... Any ideas? SHould i be using silken tofu? I thought that stuff was basically a paste... thanks jason

Charcutier, it is probably similar to bresaola and coppa, which are cured first and then stuffed for the maturing/drying, as you said... for example for my bresaola i use a 90mm collagen casing, for the lomo if i remember i used a 40mm or 50mm.. jason

Verngroff, looks AWESOME! Let me ask you, where did you find panettone papers? I'm having a hell of a time finding them anywhere...evern the bakers catalogue (king arthur) didn't have them! jason

Jackal, how are you cold smoking it? Are you in a cool climate? I missed my chance this winter here in Georgia, and it is now almost already too warm during the day, let alone with the heat generated from the burner! And i even made a cold smoker, all i made on it was cheese though...time is always too short. jason

I don't know about frying in lard..wouldn't that make everything....porky tasting? jason

Hey Thomas. I've only made guanciale once and it it was mediocre...i screwed it up with some ingredients that didn't belong...i've since practiced on pancetta as it is much cheaper and easier to get. The last batch i made is outstanding! Just had some last night with egg pasta, parsnips and rosemary..ala Jamie Oliver. Anyhow, my pancetta wet cures in a container with the spices, salt and all that for about 14 days, then it dry cures in my chamber for at least a month...the longer the better though, i've heard people aging it a year or 2! IT'll come out somewhat mummefied, but i just wrap it in a wet paper towel and put it in a ziplock bag overnight and the next day it is ready to use. I do believe guanciale is basically made the exact same way, that is next on my list...should start soon as i'm almost out of pancetta! The other item on that plate is in fact lomo, it is made from a pork loin, it came out ok, a bit too salty, and i havn't made it since..might have to try again somtime soon. Next on my list is also a prosciutto like Len Poli details on his page, probably bone in...i'll use a front pork picnic as a whole ham would be way too big and take way to long to cure, and i'd be afraid of ruining a $50 ham... As far as dextrose, as someone else said, it is used to feed the bacteria. It is used instead of sugar since it is a simple sugar versus a multichain complex sugar like sucrose...i do not know the chemical reaction through. i think i answered everything, if not, just ask more:) jason

The only solid fat that isn't vegetable in my market is lard... What ethnicity would be more likely to have it? Mexican market?

saltpeter is nitrate/nitrites, and personally i thikn is the safe way to go. Vitamin C will do nothing more than maybe keep the meat red. Just seems like a dangerous preposition. Predika might warn against using saltpeter becuase using pure saltpeter requires amounts that are too small to measure accurately. Using cures, allows us to use the safe amount of saltpeter since it is combined with regular salt... As far as trichonosis, i thikn it is pretty much eradicated from the farmed foodstock. Personally i don't worry about freezing it, but i also thikn that the drying/curing will destroy it, if it were in there. jason

Where exactly does one buy beef tallow, let alone horse tallow!?

I think you're supposed to cook them through at about 300 deg. F in the oil, then fry them at 375 for the crunch. When you say blanch, do you mean in water or in oil? That might be the problem. jason

Charcutier, thanks. I bought the fridge used for $90, the humidifier that is in there on ebay for $2, the temp control on ebay for $35, the humidistat on ebay for $50. The giant rubbermaid/bulbs/wires/etc. probably $20. I've never added it up, so lets see....just about $200. Not terribly expensive, and worth it to me, as bresaola alone is $20/lb when you can find it, as well as coppa! You can actually make pancetta and guanciale with nothign at all...as you can "cure" it in a regular fridge, it does fine in there even if it is very dry, it comes out great! tomas, yes, i've also been on sausagemaking.org, but havn't been there lately, when i posted he just started hte forum and it was vey slow...i'll go check it out again. I know quite a few restaurants in the US cure their own meats..it really isn't as hard as it might seem, all you need is the right environment.\ jason