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rendezvous

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  1. "It just seems that giving this customer a cup of hot water so she could feed her hungry baby.... Although not something desirable, and not an act the restaurant condones.... Could have been extended in this one instance, as an exception." If the baby was truly hungry, would the mother have wanted to finish her own meal (or wait for the police) before leaving? Is it reasonable to compromise the whole reason that the restaurant exists for someone who who was unable to be civil? I can't see the logic for excepting something you don't condone. The only "win" would have been to not get targetted by the media. If you can't take the heat for supporting what you stand for then its time to pack in, close the doors and go home.
  2. I think one of the main problems is that vegetarian restaurants generally are about more than just a choice in terms of food "style". Its not so much the meals themselves as everything that takes place behind them. Virtually every restaurant offers vegetarian options so its not for lack of choice elsewhere that people look to and use exclusively vegetarian premises to dine. Vegetarian restaurants are certainly closer to kosher restaurants in terms of their purpose than they are to, say, italian or spanish restaurants. Whilst not everyone will have explicit expectations - there is a significant repetition of expectation for the meal content and the way the premises is run that can't be ignored. We're going to be adding clear and explicit wording to the restaurant to make the meat free nature clearer for all as a direct result of the comments in this thread.
  3. I agree, but bear in mind we are exclusively vegetarian and the approval applies to the whole restaurant and not just a single product line (which can also be approved - like burger king have a veg burger approved over here). But surely there is at least an element of "if unsure - ask" at play in any environment where ambiguity exists?
  4. Certainly not, if presented with the same set of circumstances we would do the same thing again - if we were somehow prevented from being able to operate in a meat free environment we'd close the doors. The whole reason we opened the restaurant was to present a meat free choice to customers for whom that is their preference - which includes ourselves. That's not an issue that will ever be up for compromise. But thats not to say that we've not listened to what people have said with a view to preventing, or at least reducing the likelihood of those same circumstances arising again.
  5. Just because the UK Vegetarian Society presents a definition doesn't make it accurate either. Nor does it mean anybody has ever heard of the UK Vegetarian Society, nor does it mean anybody should be presumed to be familiar with that organization's rules. For example, like it or not, the term "pesce-vegetarian" is well accepted by millions of people around the world, not just by a few idiosyncratic self-labelers. Then surely the answer is to take it to a level that covers all the others - if in doubt make sure you cover the most bases. If there is doubt about fish and poultry then don't include it - thereby removing the problem.
  6. "But there exists no similar code for vegetarian restaurants that exist outside of a given set of religious/cultural/traditional restrictions. There's a whole lot of room for interpretation -- fish, dairy, and products that are derived from animals but aren't meat-like (gelatin, rennet, vitamins and minerals used to fortify ingredients) may or may not appear -- so unless the owner of such a restaurant prints explicit rules there's little grounds for being shocked when someone wants to bring a jar of meat-based baby food into the dining room, or even when that person askes to have it heated in the microwave." When people talk in general conversation then there is no requirement for accuracy - but when you label something as vegetarian you do have a duty of care to be accurate, something that trading standards (a governmental body) can and do police. For example, a large supermarket here at christmas time was selling a christmas cake marked as vegetarian but which contained the red coloring cochineal (made from insects). They had to withdraw that item from their stores and destroy it.
  7. This is the definition of vegetarian from the UK Vegetarian Society with whom we are approved (www.vegsoc.org): "A vegetarian does not eat any meat, poultry, game, fish, shellfish or crustacea, or slaughter by-products such as gelatine or animal fats. " True, many people call themselves vegetarian who eat fish or poultry, but just because someone self labels doesn't make it accurate and neither does it remove the responsiblity of those using the term to attract trade from ensuring the food matches the description (regardless of whether the diner understands what the term means or not).
  8. Again, to clarify - she wasn't asked to leave for the baby food itself - it was for being abusive after our meat free policy was explained. It comes back to the test of reasonableness - if a member of staff had seen the baby food then the meat free nature of the premises would have been explained to her and she would have been asked that it not be consumed to respect the nature of the restaurant. Asking us to handle the food simply made it 100% certain we would be aware of this.
  9. "What vegetarian restaurants advertise, implicitly, is that they're going to serve you food that doesn't contain meat. That's all. Everything else about a vegetarian restaurant, you have to learn either by inquiring (Does the restaurant serve dairy at all? How about cheese with rennet? Etc.) or by being told explicitly in printed documents." If the rennet is animal derrived the cheese cannot be vegetarian by definition. Cheese in and of itself isn't automatically vegetarian (although many catering establishments don't seem to realise this). As stated earlier in this thread, we do serve dairy as an option to the meals which are all prepared vegan. This is in the form of cheese, milk for drinks and ice cream (we have seperate specific utensils for dairy). But dairy relates to veganism and not to vegetarianism. Meat and meat derivatives are excluded from both diets by definition and there is most definately a requirement for us to ensure that the meals meet those definitions. If a customer were to come into contact with meat in our premises we would have to show that we took every reasonable precaution to prevent that because of how we promote our trade. "The first is doing it for religious purposes the second for...social, health, taste." Many vegetarians abstain from meat for religious reasons too - and I'm not sure how personal choice is any less valued than ones religious beliefs. In either case there is a realistic and reasonable expectation.
  10. "It seems like a pretty harsh punishment to me, especially since it seems like everyone calmed down enough so that she could finish what was on her plate before she left." To clarify, when she was asked to leave (obviously without being charged for the meals ordered and partially consumed by herself, her companion and the elder child) - she refused, demanding to finish her meal but we declined. She asked that she be allowed to take the food away - we agreed. Then she then said that if we wanted her to leave we should call the police. She then sought support from fellow diners on the next table who had witnessed the whole incident, unfortunately the response was not as she expected and they supported our decision. This was what prompted her to actually vacate the premises. With respect to anyone who runs a food premises, its never a good thing to ask anyone to leave - especially when you've incurred the food costs and it's affected other diners, its a decision I doubt many would take lightly.
  11. The restaurant is vegetarian - we have milk and cheese as options and we carry dairy ice cream. The meals themselves are all initially made vegan though as doing that means maximum choice for vegan customers who generally get little choice even in vegetarian establishments. As with all dairy, butter can't be used in vegan dishes, so our pastry doesn't contain it. There are a variety of vegan alternatives and oils that can be used in replacement. I'm not surprised at the reactions to the articles as presented. There is the issue of the spin the media put on it when they rehashed the story (the baby food itself wasn't the reason she was asked to leave) and the mother/child image strikes a protective chord with many people (a cynic might suggest that is why the media ran with it in the first place). And then on the other side, you have people with a preference for a meat free environment when dining being told they shouldn't have the right to be catered for. It's emotive stuff.
  12. We make everything vegan now and have cheese as an option (although we tend to try and lower the reliance on cheese as we are very careful regarding dairy crossover as many of our customers are dairy intolerant). Because there's no single ingredient carrying any one dish the use of good quality herbs and spices and considering the way the vegetables compliment each other overall is important - slow cooking always brings out a better flavor in the vegetables and gives them the chance to absorb the flavors. This weekend we ran specials of pine nut, tomato and caramalized lemon linguine (flat spaghetti) and we had a mushroom, chestnut and ale puff pastry pie which both went down well. Other things we do quite regularly are stuffed sweet potato, roasted red pepper and sundried tomato tart, vegetable and hazlenut encroute (puff pastry filled with layers of spinach, carrots, hazlenuts etc). On sundays we do a variation on a typical roast - we roast potatoes with saffron and serve them with nut roast, roast veg, a mash of carrot & parsnip, vegan sausage, stuffing balls and serve that with a very rich gravy made with onion & red wine. That just scratches the surface, but hopefully it gives a taste of how varied vegan food can be.
  13. Thanks for the kind words, the content of this site looks to be very good.
  14. Hi Folks, The original incident took place over 3 weeks ago, and was reported by the local newspaper - the cambrian news. They actually took the time to ask for our side of the story and printed both. None of the publications this week spoke to us before going to print. On many occassions we have prepared vegetarian and vegan meals specifically for babies and young children, but this mother became abusive when the meat free nature of the premises was explained to her - this being why she was asked to leave. Ironically, she wanted to finish her own meal before she left (thus postponing feeding her "hungry" child) and only left under protest. I have no idea where the notion of the microwave being broken originated - the reason we refused to heat the food either in the microwave or in a jug was simply because we're a meat free premises. Handling meat in any capacity goes against the whole purpose of the restaurant and would be a breach of the trust our customers place in us. There are thousands of premises that serve both meat and vegetarian meals in wales, and only a handful that are meat free and yet it seems some people believe that people with a meat free preference should not be catered for. We're not trying to change the world, we're not telling people how they should live their lives or what they should eat anywhere else - we simply want the space inside our four walls to remain meat free for ourselves and our customers. And yes, we would refuse to heat anyones wallet or shoes in the microwave too :) Regards Paul and Maggie Rendezvous Vegetarian and Vegan Restaurant
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