greenfield

Three sister restaurants are open late: 'ino on Bedford. High end sandwiches until 2 am. Might not be "serious" enough for you. Menu at http://www.cafeino.com/menus_bruschetta.php 'inoteca on Rivington and Ludlow. Full menu until 3 am, large Italian wine list. Check out the menu at http://www.inotecanyc.com/menu.php Bar Milano on 24th and 3rd is open very late; a bar menu is available until even later. I would call to check the hours. http://barmilano.com As you mentioned Blue Ribbon is a good call for good late night dining. However, it should be noted that while they may be "serious" their focus is comfort food. They have locations in both Brooklyn and Manhattan. Grace on Franklin serves food until 4 am; it's been over five years since I've eaten there, but the food was very nice. http://www.gracebarandrestaurant.com/ The Odeon (2 am) on W. Broadway and Thomas is open late. Folks have strong feelings about Odeon, both positive and negative. The full menu is not available after midnight. http://www.theodeonrestaurant.com/ The Stanton Social (4 am) on Stanton definitely has a serious menu, but to call it "clubby" would be an understatement. http://www.thestantonsocial.com/ 1 am places: Resto on 29th. Really good food and good beers http://www.restonyc.com/ Balthazar is open until 1 am Monday-Thursday, and later on Friday and Saturday. http://www.balthazarny.com/

Wow. I could have sworn the post I was quoting was from Juuceman. I was wondering why our experiences seemed so similar. I'm sure my post is arguably one of the stupidest posts of the year. I guess that's what happens when a four year old thread is resurrected. *doh* I stand by the Oyster Bar recommendation, though.

The one time I went to Fish, I had a bad oyster and perhaps the worst crawfish boil ever. [...] I think Blue Ribbon in Brooklyn and Manhattan has two of the best raw bars in the city. But they aren't cheap. ← Juuceman and I have had similar experiences. I had a bad oyster at Fish; the only good part of the experience is that I learned what a bad oyster smells and tastes like. I can second his comments on Blue Ribbon--in fact, Blue Ribbon in Manhattan was where I first ate an oyster. The Manhattan branch is frequently very crowded, and both locations are pricey.As others have stated, the Oyster Bar in Grand Central has a large selection of oysters at good prices. I think many of the other dishes are a little too much, although I have a soft spot in my heart for the shrimp cocktail. It's closed on Sundays.

I don't think you asked for an unreasonable accommodation. If the restaurant could not accommodate you, it was up to them to tell you so in a way that did not make you feel uncomfortable. Did you mention the restrictions when you made your reservation? Did you ask for anything besides the alcohol restriction? I'm curious if you asked to speak to the manager about your concerns during your meal; if you did, what did he or she say? I would think an off night in the kitchen of one of the four 4-star restaurants in New York City should be a rare event. Even if there were an off night, the manager, servers, and hosts should have still helped mitigate the problems in the kitchen. If I have concerns with a business, I try to resolve it privately before airing my concerns publicly. That being said, you really can't have it both ways: if you are going to complain about a restaurant publicly, you need to accept that the chef or owner may be upset. Of course, they are also businessmen and one hopes they wouldn't take your criticism personally. (Incidentally, unless I'm way off the mark, your write-up doesn't obscure the restaurant well. Since there are only four 4-star restaurants in NYC, it's not difficult to figure out which one you're describing.) I'm not sure I agree that the request made for a "significant extenuating circumstance." Nathan, why do you feel such a post is out of line?

I'm not sure what you mean by the Coach Farm Cheeses being sold to the coach family. Is there even a coach family? Do you mean to say that the farm had been sold to the Coach company? That would be a bit of a surprise. Do you have a link or a reference? Coach Farm was founded by Miles and Lillian Cahn, former owners of the Coach company. Coach was purchased in 1985; I don't know if the Cahn's had ownership then. (See wikipedia for more information on Coach.) As far as I know, there has never been a business relationship between Coach Farm and the Coach company beyond the fact that they were owned by the same person. As an added bit of trivia, Mario Batali is married to Susi Cahn, the daughter of Miles and Lillian Cahn above. I believe that one of the Coach goat cheeses has been on the menu of Otto since it opened; there was certainly a Coach goat cheese on the menu as of two weeks ago. Batali is an owner of Otto. I have not been to Babbo, but the Coach Farm Triple Creme is listed on the menu at http://www.babbonyc.com/menu2.html. I don't see it on the menu of Del Posto, nor do I recall having it there.

Amazon seems to have it. From my account at Amazon with two-day shipping:

I really enjoy going to Sapporo, a Japanese noodle shop on 49th between 6th and 7th. I tend to get miso ramen quite a bit, but it has a large and varied menu. There are several cold dishes in case you don't feel like eating a steaming bowl of soup in the summer. There are other reviews all around the web: check out <a href="http://www.menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?neighborhoodid=0&restaurantid=3626">Menupages</a> and <a href="http://www.frommers.com/destinations/newyorkcity/D39071.html">Frommers</a>. If noodles aren't your style, you can head over to 9th Avenue between 42nd and 55th. There are any number of great places at a variety of price points. If you want to spend a lot of money, you can always go to Esca. If you just want a good burger, Island Burger is the place to go. There is also Grand Sichuan International at 50th for some of the best Chinese food in the city, Uncle Nick's and Uncle Nick's Ouzaria for Greek food, and any number of semi-decent Thai and Sushi places. Finally, you can always just ditch lunch and go for a couple of pies at the Little Pie Company. There are probably over a hundred restaurants within a six block radius of 48th and Broadway. It's a nice place to eat. :-) [Edited to add HTML tags]

Foodwise, it is a standard steakhouse. They don't have the best steaks in Manhattan, but when I ate there, my steak was cooked properly. The wines are decent, but not stunning. However, the mixed drinks are very, very large and very good. The best part of Del Frisco's is the two-story high windows looking onto sixth Avenue and the beautiful wood bars. This restaurant is my favorite place to get drinks when it snows in New York City. It is really nice to be in a warm room and watching a cool swirling snowstorm through huge windows at night with a good drink close at hand.

This is incorrect. Bacteria like Salmonella, E. Coli, and Staphylococcus can be found in both factory farmed animals and organic animals. Poor butchering of the animals combined with poor preparation can lead to these bacteria in the final dish. There are many problems with factory farming. However, organic farming is not a magic solution for all food safety issues. Of course, I certainly don't want every TV food show to focus on food safety issues any more than I was to watch bread rise. Food safety issues can be boring, especially if it is harped on. I don't think the occasional note on food safety is out of place, just as I don't think occasional notes on where to get ingredients is out of place. I never want to tune in to hear: "Next on the Food Network: Fun Food Safety and Happy Produce on the Anal Retentive Chef!"

Given the choice between free-range fully organic chicken and factory farmed, heavily medicated chicken, both properly prepared, I would definitely choose the free range chicken. However, given a choice between organic chicken improperly prepared versus farmed chicken prepared safely, I would definitely choose the farmed chicken. Salmonella is no joke from either organic or non-organic chicken. Factory farming can definitely be responsible for significantly greater health risks than organic farming. (See mad cow disease, improper use of pesticides.) However, some simple culinary techniques, like washing your hands, avoiding cross contamination, and not introducing dirty spoons into cooked food, are fairly simple ways of stopping infections and diseases from spreading regardless of the origins of the original ingredients. Do you feel more people are directly harmed or killed from the use of "biotoxic bombs" as ingredients or from improper food preparation techniques in the kitchen?

Survived is an interesting word. In the last 100 years, life expectancy in the United States has gone from 47 years to over 77 years. (See this PDF from the CDC.) Life expectany in the Roman Empire was 25 years (See this PDF from a lecture on the history of Public Health by Damien Jolley of Deakin University in Australia.) I think it is safe to say that a large part of this increase in life expectancy is due to better sanitation, food handling, and cooking procedures. As it is, as a society we can still do a bit better in food preparation. Fo example, generally, E. Coli posioning basically means that poop got in the food. This could be due to animal waste being improperly introduced into undercooked or unwashed food, or it could mean that someone didn't wash their hands after leaving the bathroom. If every E. Coli outbreak were reported this way, I'm willing to bet that people would take more action. As for licking a spoon? If the spoon is returned to the food and the food is not cooked afterwards, I think that is a great way to spread infections or disease from one person to another. Do you really want to french kiss every chef who cooks for you? Don't get me wrong; I certainly don't have the safest kitchen. But when I cook and bake I try to avoid most cross contamination and cook in a sanitary manner.

Steven, I apologize; "vitriol" is too strong of a word to use to describe your posts regarding the review. However, I feel some of your criticism has been a bit overstated: I do think it is fair to say that you love the restaurant, even though your review from 2001 indicated decidedly mixed feelings. Your defense of Bouley, the person, as a four-star chef is passionate. I do agree that many people have a fond place in their heart for Bouley, the restaurant. I definitely understand, but do not agree, with your statements regarding the timing and appropriateness of the review. I understand your point about the three-star rating. However, I am honestly confused about your criticism regarding Bruni's "path." I can certainly relate to what Bruni was saying. Are you saying that you found his comments inaccurate or illegitimate? I think you are saying that Bruni missed something in his experiences at Bouley, but I don't know what he missed. All that being said, part of me now wants to go to Bouley to see what the fuss is all about. I would love to read a follow-up review of Bouley by you; I think the contrast in reviewing styles would be interesting. I think that in the end assesment, we will probably have to agree to disagree about Bruni's review.

[Please note two different folks are quoted here] Yes! I should not be able to go into a four star restaurant and get two- or three-star service and food. I think it is important to note that the problems mentioned in the article are not small, one-time problems. They are long-standing problems with the restaurant that should have been addressed a while ago. Wow. I really hope that Bruni did not contact Bouley before the review ran. I feel that would be a lapse in journalistic ethics. Bruni is reviewing a restaurants product: the experience of dining there. The NYT reviewer goes to the restaurant more than once to make sure that their experience is not a fluke. It is not a reviewer's obligation to investigate the business reasons for a restaurants failure or success--it is a reviewer's obligation to tell me about the experience of dining in the restaurant. If I want an insider's view of the restaurant, I read eGullet. :-) Alternatively, I can read any number of other articles in the NYT food sections that discuss a restaurant from front to back. Would you expect a theater critic to call a producer after several bad performances of a show and ask, "Can you explain why my experience at the theater was poor? Should I hold off reviewing for now until you fix these problems?" If Bouley really wanted reviewers to hold off reviewing his restaurant, he could have issued some sort of press release indicating that the restaurant was being retooled. In effect, he could have thrown the business into preview mode; it would be as if he were opening it for the first time. Of course, that would have a real financial impact, whereas the financial impact of a negative three-star review in the Times is questionable. Steve, I'm a bit curious if your vitriol towards the review is due to the content of the review itself, or the fact that it was a negative review of a restaurant you clearly love. If this were any number of other restaurants in the city, would you be so passionate? I would love to see an eGullet thread which mentions the NYT food section and does not contain gratuitous Hesser bashing. Even if it is a backhanded compliment.

I really thought today's review was well written and very interesting. I have considered eating at Bouley, but a couple of my friends have had very poor experiences there. They found that the service was poor and unprofessional and the food was inconsistent. This has been over the past year or two. This isn't to say that Bouley has never been a four-star restaurant. In fact, all of my friends who went there felt that the restaurant went downhill. They enjoyed the previous incarnations of Bouley quite a bit more. Interestingly, my friends' experiences mirrored those of Bruni. I thought it was a well-timed review. Was Bouley ready for a re-review? E-Gullet members seemed to think so; check out the four star thread. Bouley was definitely a restaurant that people were discussing. I certainly wanted to know Bruni's opinion, and I am an avid NY Times reader. I definitely agree that the review read as more of a two-star review than a three-star review. I get the feeling that Bruni was quite underwhelmed. While it may have been nice to read more about the dishes he liked, I'm not sure that would have been compelling or necessary.

So if you tip the sommelier, should your dinner tip include the cost of alcohol?

I can vouch the bar at Otto. If you don't want to be social, don't go there. Almost every time I have eaten there, I have ended up sharing food or wine with my neighbor. All of the menu items provoke discussion and are conducive to sharing. They sell many of wines by the quartino, but they tend to be on the pricier side. I have started to buy a bottle of wine and leave some behind rather than buying three quartinos of wine. There are a huge number of bottles, and it ends up being cheaper. As an added bonus, it is easier to make friends with people at the bar when you share wine. The other Batali/Bastianich venues are pretty good for eating at the bar as well. There is Casa Mono (tapas), the Spotted Pig (English), and Esca (Italian Seafood). Casa Mono is quite good and has a large bar; you can see the chefs cooking in front of you. The Spotted Pig serves very good food, but can get very crowded. (Disclaimer: I know one of the managers at The Spotted Pig.) I have heard the bar at Esca is very nice, but I have never eaten there. Esca is quite a bit more expensive than the other restaurants, but it is really good. There are any number of French bistros in the city that serve good food at the bar. My personal favorite is Les Halles on Park and 28th. The bar is tiny, and it can get crowded during a rush, but the bartender is always very friendly and the food is well prepared and comes quickly. There is a good number of wines by the glass. I have heard that Les Halles Downtown has a bigger bar, but I have never been there. I've only eaten at the bar at Veritas once, but I've eaten in the dining room a few times. All of my experiences there have been great. The bar was very friendly, and the bartender warned my brother away from a wine that was no good. I think the bar at Blue Ribbon deserves special mention because it serves good food with large portions until 4 AM. The oysters kick ass. Unfortunately, the bar in Manhattan is extra tiny and the restaurant can get crowded. The bar in the Brooklyn Blue Ribbon is huge, and it is well worth eating there. There are a couple of places in my neighborhood in Park Slope, Brooklyn where I go quite a bit, but that might be a bit too far for you. Two bars I like in Park Slope are at 12th Street and Cafe Stienhof. Even though convenience is a big reason why I like these restaurants, the food is pretty darn good as well. In Manhattan, I tend to go to Otto regularly. I have also gone to Les Halles less frequently, but frequent enough so that I know the bartenders and some wait staff. It is a bit easier to get a seat at the bar at Otto, and there tend to be more cute women there. What can I say; I'm single. :-) There are so many worthwhile places in NYC that encourage eating at the bar. As I write this, I keep thinking of more (Savoy, Le Zinc, Grace, Artisanal). I can't imagine many places in NYC that require a reservation at the bar. I recommend making a list of places you would like to eat in general. Then call those restaurants to see who allows eating at the bar. If you get there and decide it looks unfriendly, just go to the next restaurant on your list. Getting around NYC is so easy that there is no reason to stay a bar that you don't like. You could even consider bar hopping: appetizer at one bar, entree at the next bar, and dessert at the last bar. Have fun!

Ditto. I thought it was a fantastic review. Not only do I have a very good idea of what dining at Masa is like, but also I got a tip on what to avoid. I think it was one of Amanda Hesser's best reviews. I definitely want to go to Masa now, but I don't think it is something I can afford right now. For an interesting related article, check out Eric Asimov's review of Ginza Sushiko in his regular $250 and over column in the May 17, 2000 edition of The Times, And when $300 would feed a crowd? The column name was a joke, of course; it appeared in the dining section next to an article discussing rising restaurant prices and prompted by Alain Ducasse's new restaurant. I apologize if the link doesn't work; you can find the article on The Times's website by searching for Ginza Sushiko in the archives.

Le Bernardin had a soft shell crab dish on their tasting menu this past Wednesday. And it was good.

Jayson Blair and his supervisors "botched things to the point that it will take YEARS for the Times to unravel." The fallout from Howell Raines's piece in The Atlantic Monthly and the issues it raises will have repercussions for years. No matter how much anyone may disagree with Amanda Hesser's taste or writing style, it is just plain silly to assert that her review of the Spice Market, or any of her other writing, caused long-term damage to the New York Times. I enjoy reading Hesser's reviews, and I'm afraid I don't understand the level of vitriol thrown her way. I thought that Ruth Riechl's later reviews were sycophantic, and I stopped reading Grimes's reviews because I found them so frustrating. Hesser's reviews tell me more than what is on the menu of a restaurant. After reading one of her restaurant reviews, I have a good understanding of the experience of eating there. Riechl's reviews were fun, but Grimes's reviews were just painful to read. Should her business relationship with JGV been noted in her review? Definitely. That's why the Times ran the correction. Readers should know about potential conflicts of interest, and if the potential for the appearance of impropiety exists, it is important that readers find out from the newspaper and not from third-parties. I would have liked to know about the book-blurb, but I still would have gladly read and appreciated her review. I'm curious how well other food writers would withstand the level of scrutiny that is being applied to Hesser in this forum. (Slightly off topic, but if you are interested in cultural, ethical, and business issues at the Times, read Raines's Atlantic Monthly piece. It touches on many of the issues raised here.)

I was wondering why intern-boy didn't put the phone on hold as he handed it to his coworker. Then he made the Captain Douchebag crack. They may have fired him for being disrespectful, but being an idiot is also a good reason to let someone go.

For me, Fox's U-Bet Chocolate Syrup is the definitive chocolate syrup for egg creams.

El Quijote in Chelsea is pretty good. They will make the lobster in any manner you desire. I've been there a few times over the years for family gatherings. 23rd between 7th and 8th in the Chelsea Hotel.

The NY Times did report, "Gage & Tollner's interior has been granted landmark status by the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission and is listed on the commission's Web site". It is listed at the Landmarks Commission "about" page as an example of an "interior landmark," but I couldn't find the decision at all. Presumably, this would limit TGIF from using their typical stock decor.

So do you feel that these restaurants are ever appropriate for family gatherings on special occasions? For that matter, can anyone recommend high-end restuaurants for special occasions that accomodate children?

I thought that the 2nd avenue deli had hand sliced pastrami and corned beef as well. Does anyone know one way or another?