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Enrober Questions


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#1 Truffle Guy

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 10:16 AM

My 3 year trek to starting a company is coming to a conclusion as I now have a space picked out and some revenue streams established. The next big step is moving to some production equipment that makes sense for me. I'd love to get an LCM machine but the price is high and the time to deliver is 4+ months. So, I'm looking for a quicker turnaround time and a solid machine.

Currently, I'm strongly considering the 50KG Mol D'art model Mol D'Art machines as it would be good for moulding which is a big part of my business. It also has an attachment so it can be used for enrobing. The capacity would work and the price is very reasonable. I'm considering 2-3 machines with 1 being an enrober. My concern is the dependability and tempering performance. The turnaround time is quick and would allow me to launch faster.

Anyone have experience with these machines for moulding as well as using the enrobing attachment?

I'm also interested in any other good machines that won't cost me $20,000+ that are strong for molding. I need to produce white/dark chocolate molds so I'd prefer 2 smaller machines at this point until I can afford the larger dual LCM machines. Thanks in advance for your help.

#2 Kerry Beal

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:24 AM

I haven't actually worked with any of this equipment, but I look at it every chance I get and I've been impressed with the little 'chocolate factory in a box' that Chocolate World makes. It can be had in the US through Tomric plastics. It has a tempering unit with interchangable plates that allow you to fill molds efficiently, a shaker that drains back into the tempered chocolate. It also has a variety of attachments. There is an enrober and I believe a truffle grill. It is in the Chocolate World catalogue and here online.

It is available in a variety of sizes.

#3 mrose

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:58 AM

Look at Perfect Equipment, they have a compact tempering machine (air2) & attachable enrober (eno2) that I used doing an intership. It cost about $10k several years ago. It worked very nicely.

Mark
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#4 Truffle Guy

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:06 PM

Kerry,

Thanks for the link. I also am looking at Tomric Tomric Machines ....any thoughts on that line. I'm looking at either the Ghana Top or Ghana Plus. A few other companies I'm considering are:

Hilliards Hilliards ...they have a few lines for moulding that I'm considering

ProBake ProBake Machines

Hacos Hacos Enrobers

Bakon.....I'd like to hear from anyone who has used their equipment Bakon Equipment

#5 Kerry Beal

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:13 PM

Kerry,

Thanks for the link.  I also am looking at Tomric  Tomric Machines ....any thoughts on that line.  I'm looking at either the Ghana Top or Ghana Plus.  A few other companies I'm considering are:

Hilliards  Hilliards ...they have a few lines for moulding that I'm considering

ProBake  ProBake Machines

Hacos  Hacos Enrobers

Bakon.....I'd like to hear from anyone who has used their equipment Bakon Equipment

View Post

The Ghana is the one from chocolate world, it is an elegant little machine. The Hillards units look like work horses, easy to repair and get parts for I understand. Haven't seen the others.

I'm not sure what kind of enrober we will be using at the upcoming Wybauw course.

#6 prairiegirl

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:08 PM

I am looking at equipment to start my business and I am looking at the Perfect Equipment out of Quebec. The Automatic Tempering Machine with all the bells and whistles is $17,500 CAD. This will be my machine that is ready to go and I will pick up 2 wheel machines second hand for using milk and white.

#7 Truffle Guy

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 04:45 AM

I am looking at equipment to start my business and I am looking at the Perfect Equipment out of Quebec.  The Automatic Tempering Machine with all the bells and whistles is $17,500 CAD.  This will be my machine that is ready to go and I will pick up 2 wheel machines  second hand for using milk and white.

View Post



sounds like a good idea. any thoughts on where to find the machines second hand?

#8 etalanian

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:27 AM

I used hilliard machines when I had my bakery. A large floor model for dark, and table top for white. They were easy to use, parts could be rushed to me if I needed them, and they would walk me through replacing parts if I needed them to do so. Easy company to work with. And the chocolate maintained a good temper. If i started another company I would probably use them again because of past experience.

Good luck!

Eileen
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#9 sote23

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 12:37 PM

My 3 year trek to starting a company is coming to a conclusion as I now have a space picked out and some revenue streams established.  The next big step is moving to some production equipment that makes sense for me.  I'd love to get an LCM machine but the price is high and the time to deliver is 4+ months.  So, I'm looking for a quicker turnaround time and a solid machine. 

Currently, I'm strongly considering the 50KG Mol D'art model Mol D'Art machines as it would be good for moulding which is a big part of my business.  It also has an attachment so it can be used for enrobing.  The capacity would work and the price is very reasonable.  I'm considering 2-3 machines with 1 being an enrober.  My concern is the dependability and tempering performance.  The turnaround time is quick and would allow me to launch faster. 

Anyone have experience with these machines for moulding as well as using the enrobing attachment? 

I'm also interested in any other good machines that won't cost me $20,000+ that are strong for molding.  I need to produce white/dark chocolate molds so I'd prefer 2 smaller machines at this point until I can afford the larger dual LCM machines.  Thanks in advance for your help.

View Post



so are you looking at the moulder for 6250 euro and then enrobing unit for 4750 euro?

#10 Truffle Guy

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 06:59 PM

Yes...but I am also looking at some other machines. I need a quick turnaround and a dependable machine and my primary purpose is moulding.


My 3 year trek to starting a company is coming to a conclusion as I now have a space picked out and some revenue streams established.  The next big step is moving to some production equipment that makes sense for me.  I'd love to get an LCM machine but the price is high and the time to deliver is 4+ months.  So, I'm looking for a quicker turnaround time and a solid machine. 

Currently, I'm strongly considering the 50KG Mol D'art model Mol D'Art machines as it would be good for moulding which is a big part of my business.  It also has an attachment so it can be used for enrobing.  The capacity would work and the price is very reasonable.  I'm considering 2-3 machines with 1 being an enrober.  My concern is the dependability and tempering performance.  The turnaround time is quick and would allow me to launch faster. 

Anyone have experience with these machines for moulding as well as using the enrobing attachment? 

I'm also interested in any other good machines that won't cost me $20,000+ that are strong for molding.  I need to produce white/dark chocolate molds so I'd prefer 2 smaller machines at this point until I can afford the larger dual LCM machines.  Thanks in advance for your help.

View Post



so are you looking at the moulder for 6250 euro and then enrobing unit for 4750 euro?

View Post



#11 sote23

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 08:01 PM

Yes...but I am also looking at some other machines.  I need a quick turnaround and a dependable machine and my primary purpose is moulding. 


My 3 year trek to starting a company is coming to a conclusion as I now have a space picked out and some revenue streams established.  The next big step is moving to some production equipment that makes sense for me.  I'd love to get an LCM machine but the price is high and the time to deliver is 4+ months.  So, I'm looking for a quicker turnaround time and a solid machine. 

Currently, I'm strongly considering the 50KG Mol D'art model Mol D'Art machines as it would be good for moulding which is a big part of my business.  It also has an attachment so it can be used for enrobing.  The capacity would work and the price is very reasonable.  I'm considering 2-3 machines with 1 being an enrober.  My concern is the dependability and tempering performance.  The turnaround time is quick and would allow me to launch faster. 

Anyone have experience with these machines for moulding as well as using the enrobing attachment? 

I'm also interested in any other good machines that won't cost me $20,000+ that are strong for molding.  I need to produce white/dark chocolate molds so I'd prefer 2 smaller machines at this point until I can afford the larger dual LCM machines.  Thanks in advance for your help.

View Post



so are you looking at the moulder for 6250 euro and then enrobing unit for 4750 euro?

View Post

View Post



seems like a good system. When I visited Jaque Torres looked like all his equipment was Mol D Art.

#12 readingrilke

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 08:03 PM

Hey,

Congrats man! Everyone talks about the LCM, so why not think about getting something small and get the LCM when it is ready. But congrats again!

#13 sote23

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 08:29 PM

Look at Perfect Equipment, they have a compact tempering machine (air2) & attachable  enrober (eno2) that I used doing an intership. It cost about $10k several years ago. It worked very nicely.

Mark

View Post



hi mark,
I'm looking at that system as well. i have their current brochure. the price for the air2 + enro2 is $8845.

how do the 2 machines attach and work together?

#14 mrose

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 08:49 AM

Look at Perfect Equipment, they have a compact tempering machine (air2) & attachable  enrober (eno2) that I used doing an intership. It cost about $10k several years ago. It worked very nicely.

Mark

View Post



hi mark,
I'm looking at that system as well. i have their current brochure. the price for the air2 + enro2 is $8845.

how do the 2 machines attach and work together?

View Post


I only worked on it for 1 morning. It seemed to connect together very easily & worked well.

Mark
Mark
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#15 sote23

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:41 PM

Look at Perfect Equipment, they have a compact tempering machine (air2) & attachable  enrober (eno2) that I used doing an intership. It cost about $10k several years ago. It worked very nicely.

Mark

View Post



hi mark,
I'm looking at that system as well. i have their current brochure. the price for the air2 + enro2 is $8845.

how do the 2 machines attach and work together?

View Post


I only worked on it for 1 morning. It seemed to connect together very easily & worked well.

Mark

View Post



mark,
what I'm curious about. how does the tempered chocolate make it to the enro 2?

#16 mrose

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 03:59 PM

[quote name='sote23' date='Mar 8 2007, 05:41 PM'][quote=mrose,Mar 7 2007, 07:49 AM


mark,
what I'm curious about. how does the tempered chocolate make it to the enro 2?

View Post

[/quote]

As you can sort of see in the picture, the enro2 sits over the chocolate holding tray & the pieces run under the fountain. The picture shows a base unit which controls the enro2, the air2 on top, and then the enro2 conveyor.

Mark

Edited by mrose, 08 March 2007 - 04:00 PM.

Mark
www.roseconfections.com

#17 sote23

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 06:19 PM

[quote name='mrose' date='Mar 8 2007, 02:59 PM']
[quote name='sote23' date='Mar 8 2007, 05:41 PM'][quote=mrose,Mar 7 2007, 07:49 AM


mark,
what I'm curious about. how does the tempered chocolate make it to the enro 2?

View Post

[/quote]

As you can sort of see in the picture, the enro2 sits over the chocolate holding tray & the pieces run under the fountain. The picture shows a base unit which controls the enro2, the air2 on top, and then the enro2 conveyor.

Mark

View Post

[/quote]


hi mark,
your explanation makes sense, but I don't see a picture.

#18 mrose

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 06:27 PM

hi mark,
your explanation makes sense, but I don't see a picture.

View Post

[/quote]

Look at: http://www.perfectinc.com/enro-2.html

the middle picture, the buttons on side are the base unit for the enro2, the white bar up is the air 2 & the conveyor is sitting ontop.

Mark

Edited by mrose, 10 March 2007 - 06:28 PM.

Mark
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#19 sote23

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:49 PM

hi mark,
your explanation makes sense, but I don't see a picture.

View Post


Look at: http://www.perfectinc.com/enro-2.html

the middle picture, the buttons on side are the base unit for the enro2, the white bar up is the air 2 & the conveyor is sitting ontop.

Mark

View Post

[/quote

that clears it up, one sits over the top of the other.
thanks for the help
luis

#20 Truffle Guy

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 10:07 AM

I know this thread has gone around quite a bit but I'm looking for answers on a couple specific machines. I'll be making a purchase this week and keep going back and forth on what choice to make.

The 2 machines I'm looking at are the JKV (30 or 100) and the Tomric Plus. I've been leaning heavily towards the Tomric machine but for the same price I can get a JKV machine with an enrober option and a moulding option. I don't want to sacrifice the quality of the tempering so I'm curious what feed back people have about these 2 specific machines.

I've had some good luck on getting some large clients right out the gate from starting my company so I've got some pretty large volumes to start producing ASAP. I've picked these machines due to availability and delivery speed. Any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks. Bill.

#21 Truffle Guy

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:30 AM

I think the Mold'art machines are very similar to the JKV machines if anyone has experience with them and can give feedback. The majority of my work is with airbrushed molds so I'm looking for a machine that gives a consistent and shiny temper. Thanks again.


I know this thread has gone around quite a bit but I'm looking for answers on a couple specific machines.  I'll be making a purchase this week and keep going back and forth on what choice to make.

The 2 machines I'm looking at are the JKV (30 or 100) and the Tomric Plus.  I've been leaning heavily towards the Tomric machine but for the same price I can get a JKV machine with an enrober option and a moulding option.  I don't want to sacrifice the quality of the tempering so I'm curious what feed back people have about these 2 specific machines. 

I've had some good luck on getting some large clients right out the gate from starting my company so I've got some pretty large volumes to start producing ASAP.  I've picked these machines due to availability and delivery speed.  Any feedback is much appreciated.  Thanks.  Bill.

View Post



#22 prairiegirl

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:39 PM

I am looking at equipment as well. I am leaning heavily towards the easy1 by perfect equipment out of Quebec. I will have some wheel machines as well but this will be my MAMA!! I have a call in with a chocolaterie in Quebec to get feedback about the equipment. Apparantly they are using Perfect's equipment. I will curious to know who you went with.

#23 Kerry Beal

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:33 PM

The Tomric is the Ghana plus from chocolate world. It apparently works well 'out of the box' and has lots of optional equipment you can add. It's harder to clean than the JKV units. To change from milk to dark is a bit of a production. So you'll probably keep one kind of chocolate going in it all the time. It's a pretty little unit.

The chocolate cools more easily in wheel models where it is constantly being agitated in the room temperature air. I've heard some people say that the wheels can have some problems with malfunctions, but I've not heard it specifically for the JKV brand. Much easier to clean out and change from one chocolate to another.

I'm probably no help in your decision however.

#24 readingrilke

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 08:41 PM

Hey man!

I finally got my phone reconnected after getting my old one stolen....pretty funny!

Have you used one of these machines, yet? I know you got the specs and probably talked to some people, but beyond what wybauw said, I would really try and see these machines in the flesh and use one, if you haven't already. Regardless, it's a huge investment and something you are going to be using for several years, perhaps, so just give it some thought...lol...as if you weren't already.

Do you really need something on this scale now? I mean, if you are doing mostly molded work, and you know how to temper.....after talking wybauw you better know how to temper!....then why not get a few large melters and a heat gun and a ton of molds...it's what I would do....until you can get your hands on something you don't have any doubts or hesitations about....might be better to just have ALOT of seeding and laddling in your future....

I don't know alot about those machines, they might be good but....for that amount of cash....maybe convenience and timing isn't the only criteria....we both know you are in this thing for the long haul and starting up my own thing, I know that a little elbow grease at the beginning is better than most quick solutions. You're still going to have those machines AFTER this season....so....keep that in mind!

If you were enrobing I would understand the nearly desperate need for a continuous tempering machine, thoughts of hand dipping keep me up at night....but you're not doing much of that....we both saw how fast sean was....why not do that....it could be a baptism of chocolate or something!

To be honest, I would buy a few large volume melters from mol'dart or someone, a ton of molds, a heat gun, a laddle, a bunch of offsets, and a good apron.

Best!

#25 schneich

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:46 PM

Hi,


we are strongly thinking about buying one of the machines that are sold under the tomric brand in the US. these machines are produced byselmi in italy. in a few days we will have a demo in the selmi showroom in muelheim here in germany. if you want i can write you a little review with photos. as far as i know (i talked a lot with the selmi salesman here in germany) these machines are very easy to use (the sales rep says it can even be used by a women ;-) the only thing to do is calibrate the chocolate to ensure proper weighing, and if you dont use the machine for a few hours you have to pull the tempering button, to avoid overcrystallization, if you want to start working again you just have to push it and 15 mins. later your good to go... ive seen quite a few patisseries and chocolatiers in belgium and germany who own these machines... the medium sized machine ( 24 kg) can enrobe around 9000 pralines per day...


cheers

torsten s.
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cologne, germany

#26 Truffle Guy

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:32 AM

I have not used the machines but I do believe they are solid and the chocolatiers I know that use them have said good things.

My scale is actually the problem and why I need these machines. I expect within a month I will be doing 5,000-10,000 pieces per week and want equipment that can scale up. I think it is a mistake to buy for today and not for the planned growth.

Also, because the accessories are interchangeable, I can get (2) of the machines and in essence have (2) enrobers or molding machines as well as backup.

I've had some unexpected good news on the financial/investment side so I can order 2 machines now. Although I'd like to get an LCM (if money were no issue) that will be where I migrate in 12 months or so. The price is just too steep now.

I plan on doing a lot of enrobing and the main reason I've not so far is because of the tedious hand-dipping process, it's just too slow. These machines can do both moulding and enrobing and will open up some doors to enrobed pieces for me.

I have enough prospects in the hopper that could drive my production requirements up quickly that I'm willing to take the chance on the Selmi machines. I've not heard anything bad about them. I don't think they will ever be discarded as they are high production machines.

It's always a risk but in this case, I'd prefer risking on the higher end than the lower one. I've got the funding to get (2) machines now and I have production demands I have to meet so I'm moving forward.

I'll be happy to give feedback on the process on my thoughts on all the equipment I'll be getting.




Hey man!

I finally got my phone reconnected after getting my old one stolen....pretty funny!

Have you used one of these machines, yet? I know you got the specs and probably talked to some people, but beyond what wybauw said, I would really try and see these machines in the flesh and use one, if you haven't already. Regardless, it's a huge investment and something you are going to be using for several years, perhaps, so just give it some thought...lol...as if you weren't already.

Do you really need something on this scale now? I mean, if you are doing mostly molded work, and you know how to temper.....after talking wybauw you better know how to temper!....then why not get a few large melters and a heat gun and a ton of molds...it's what I would do....until you can get your hands on something you don't have any doubts or hesitations about....might be better to just have ALOT of seeding and laddling in your future....

I don't know alot about those machines, they might be good but....for that amount of cash....maybe convenience and timing isn't the only criteria....we both know you are in this thing for the long haul and starting up my own thing, I know that a little elbow grease at the beginning is better than most quick solutions. You're still going to have those machines AFTER this season....so....keep that in mind!

If you were enrobing I would understand the nearly desperate need for a continuous tempering machine, thoughts of hand dipping keep me up at night....but you're not doing much of that....we both saw how fast sean was....why not do that....it could be a baptism of chocolate or something!

To be honest, I would buy a few large volume melters from mol'dart or someone, a ton of molds, a heat gun, a laddle, a bunch of offsets, and a good apron.

Best!

View Post



#27 readingrilke

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 07:17 PM

No worries!

If you are going to be doing that amount of volume, than yes, obviously manual tempering, etc. is not going to work out.

I am meeting with some banks on Monday about getting a commercial equipment loan. If we can get it, then I am going to shoot for the LCM, since we obviously don't have the volume demands of you.....YET! If not, then I am going to go the Mol d'art route until we break even, and then buy an LCM.

What's the story on getting your space, if you are going to be doing volume, won't you need your own dedicated space?

Take care!

#28 readingrilke

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:29 PM

Hello,

I actually believe that Jacque Torres uses a Sollich, which is the 'rolls royce' of enrobers and alot more expensive that the LCM (but I have had people state that the LCM is just as good), from an article in Pastry Art and Design. Other people who have the LCM are: Christopher Elbow, Garrison Confections, Dolphin Hotel in Orlando (Pastry chef there I think was the captain of the US pastry team), Veregoods, etc.

I am trying to get an LCM and think it is worth the price for what I want to do, which is enrobed. It's a great machine that has been recommended to me by Wybauw, Schotts, and Florian Bellanger. I hope to get a chance to check one out in a couple of weeks, since there is one in Orlando.

I guess a way to think about it is like a car. I mean, any car can get you from point A to point B, but there is a difference between a Civic (what I drive) and a BMW (what my customers are driving).

Very easy to clean and change chocolates, is truly continuous tempering with a cold floor tabling method, and can give you that really thin enrobing.

Even the Selmi as an enrobing unit is going to cost you over 25k and what is causing a huge amount of the costs for the LCM is the exchange rate between the dollar and the euro. The LCM 240 is going to set you back 30,000+ euros = $43,000. And for me, if I am going to spend tens of thousands of dollars for the single most important piece of equipment in my shop (other than climate control) it's what I would want.

I agree that it's a HUGE investment, but if you have the means then freaking go for it! For me, if I can't get the bank to give me a line of credit to get it, then I am going with the Mol' dart and enrobing line, which according to their website is going to set me back approximately 15k, which is a third of the LCM and half of the Selmi.

Edited by readingrilke, 07 August 2007 - 07:41 PM.


#29 readingrilke

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 03:57 AM

Different strokes for different folks. For me, finding out what equipment other chocolatiers and pastry chefs (Elbow, Schotts, Wybauw, Bellanger, Love, and Branlard) use and/or recommend is significant endorsement and reason to consider the machine. But, c'est la vie and good luck to you with your expansion.

http://www.lcm-choco....com/index.html

Torres uses a Sollich, not an LCM, at least according to the article. I don't remember the month of the article, but it was with Ken Soto on the cover, I hope that I remember his name correctly.

Edited by readingrilke, 08 August 2007 - 03:59 AM.


#30 ChristopherMichael

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 11:45 AM

I don't remember the month of the article, but it was with Ken Soto on the cover

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Did you mean Ken Goto, Jacques right hand man?

Edited by ChristopherMichael, 08 August 2007 - 11:59 AM.