Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Amer Picon & Torani Amer


  • Please log in to reply
145 replies to this topic

#31 weinoo

weinoo
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,486 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:42 PM

Way cool - I'd drink any of John's suggestions - and have!
Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"
mweinstein@eGstaff.org
Tasty Travails - My Blog
My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs
Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

#32 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,626 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:52 PM

It would seem that turning back to the Savoy, Patrick Gavin Duffy, et al would be the thing to do, so as to get the benefit of pre-1978 ratios. Yes? No?

And save Wondrich, do others have old bottles of this stuff?
Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#33 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 21 August 2007 - 08:48 PM

Crap!

So those bottles were there at Gasbarro's when I was there 2 years ago?

Sigh.

I suggest, from the Savoy Cocktail Book:

Creole Cocktail

1/2 Rye or Canadian Club Whisky.
1/2 Italian Vermouth.
2 Dashes Benedictine.
2 Dashes Amer Picon.

Stir well and strain into cocktail glass. Twist lemon peel on top.

Yeah, ignore Canadians and use a decent vermouth.

Please take a picture and post when we get to the Creole Cocktail the Savoy topic.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#34 JAZ

JAZ
  • manager
  • 4,901 posts
  • Location:Atlanta

Posted 21 August 2007 - 09:11 PM

Damn you, Chris!

If I were you, I'd immediately make a Picon Punch, but that's because I used to drink them occasionally at my old neighborhood bar, which had a stash of the old stuff (little did I know at the time how rare it was).

Coat a collins glass with grenadine, fill with ice. Add a couple ounces of Picon and top with soda. Float a little brandy on top and serve with a lemon twist.

#35 bostonapothecary

bostonapothecary
  • participating member
  • 1,260 posts
  • Location:have shaker will travel

Posted 21 August 2007 - 10:22 PM

Damn you, Chris!

If I were you, I'd immediately make a Picon Punch, but that's because I used to drink them occasionally at my old neighborhood bar, which had a stash of the old stuff (little did I know at the time how rare it was).

Coat a collins glass with grenadine, fill with ice. Add a couple ounces of Picon and top with soda. Float a little brandy on top and serve with a lemon twist.

View Post

View Post


don't do anything until next years tour de france or you will jinx us all....
root for euskaltel euskadi, drink picon, and be merry.... next year we will take the yellow jersey....
abstract expressionist beverage compounder
creator of acquired tastes
bostonapothecary.com

#36 scratchline

scratchline
  • participating member
  • 90 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:20 PM

This is an old tax-strip bottle (4/5 qt.) of the 78 proof Picon. We found it in a dusty liquor store in California, and brought it to its current happy home in NYC. Wish we had more...

Mike & Jenny

Posted Image

Posted Image

#37 eas

eas
  • participating member
  • 127 posts
  • Location:with coffee in hand

Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:42 PM

my bottle is much the same as the one in the immediate prior post. the taste is definately different than the current picon

#38 TBoner

TBoner
  • participating member
  • 113 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 03 September 2007 - 06:09 PM

Found some current (actually, early 1990s) Picon today here in TX. $10/L. I bought it, even if it is only 42 proof. It'll give me at least some point of reference when my replica recipe of the old stuff is finished.

I tried a Brooklyn today with Overholt, Vya dry, Luxardo, and the Picon. Very good drink, and I can't wait for the replica to be ready. Alas, two more months!
Tim

#39 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,626 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 03 September 2007 - 06:53 PM

I had a little something to celebrate tonight, so I decided that it was time to break out the Amer Picon and a back-of-the-cabinet bottle I hadn't used in a cocktail before.

Posted Image

Liberal Cocktail from cocktaildb: 1 1/2 oz rye (Sazerac 18 Years Old 2006)
1/2 oz sweet vermouth (Punt e Mes)
1/4 oz Amer Picon
1 dash orange bitters (Regans' Orange Bitters No 6)
orange twist
Splendid.
Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#40 bostonapothecary

bostonapothecary
  • participating member
  • 1,260 posts
  • Location:have shaker will travel

Posted 03 September 2007 - 09:29 PM

Liberal Cocktail from cocktaildb: 1 1/2 oz rye (Sazerac 18 Years Old 2006)
1/2 oz sweet vermouth (Punt e Mes)
1/4 oz Amer Picon
1 dash orange bitters (Regans' Orange Bitters No 6)
orange twist

Splendid.

View Post


i have had that drink and it is delicious... i am wondering if the sugar contents on the amer picon changed at all when the proofs changed... maybe someone with an old bottle and a refractometer can help us out...?
abstract expressionist beverage compounder
creator of acquired tastes
bostonapothecary.com

#41 KatieLoeb

KatieLoeb
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 9,156 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 04 September 2007 - 12:06 AM

Chris:

You suck. I'm beyond envious. That looks delicious.

Amer Torani is coming to PA in two weeks. I can hardly wait. There have been some clandestine trades of not-on-the-shelves liquors and aperitifs of late amongst the Philly bartending cognoscenti. I swapped a small bottle of Aperol for some "suitcase import" Amer Torani about a week ago. I should have some time to play with it at home tomorrow evening. Looks like a Brooklyn in my near future...

Edited by KatieLoeb, 04 September 2007 - 12:07 AM.

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol


#42 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,626 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 06 September 2007 - 06:28 PM

I wanted to try something a bit less complicated, and snooping around cocktaildb I found The New Deal Cocktail #2, a built cocktail with a 3:1 bourbon or rye to Amer Picon ratio, sugar, and an orange peel. Sticking more or less to those ratios, I put together this (Not So) New Deal Cocktail #2b:

1 1/2 oz rye (Rittenhouse 100)
1/2 oz Amer Picon
scant 1/2 oz demerara simple syrup
dash orange bitters (Fee's for the nose; I'm out of oranges)
Stir, strain.

It's really wonderful; getting the Punt e Mes out of the way helps bring out the Amer Picon. It's making me think also that a scotch-based drink might be intriguing, a version of The Bairn with AP instead of orange bitters....
Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#43 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 06 September 2007 - 06:45 PM

Adapting Jamie Boudreau's Amer Picon recipe...

7 oz vodka
1 orange
10 oz Ramzzotti Amaro
2 oz Stirring's Blood Orange Bitters
1 drop orange oil

Microplane the zest of 1 orange into the vodka. Let stand a few minutes. Filter through 4 layers of cheese cloth into a clean bottle, squeezing out as much liquid as possible.

Pour Ramzotti Amaro through cheese cloth and orange zest, again squeezing out as much liquid as possible.

Add Blood Orange bitters and orange oil.

Mix.

I like it better than the Torani Amer. It seems to have more spice notes and be a bit more complex than the modern Amer Picon that I've tasted recently.

Make Creole Cocktail (above).

Juice orange and drink juice for Vitamin C or make 4 Bronx cocktails.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#44 weinoo

weinoo
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,486 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:19 PM

I had a little something to celebrate tonight, so I decided that it was time to break out the Amer Picon and a back-of-the-cabinet bottle I hadn't used in a cocktail before.

Posted Image

Liberal Cocktail from cocktaildb: 1 1/2 oz rye (Sazerac 18 Years Old 2006)
1/2 oz sweet vermouth (Punt e Mes)
1/4 oz Amer Picon
1 dash orange bitters (Regans' Orange Bitters No 6)
orange twist

Splendid.

View Post


Nice looking drink, Chris!
Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"
mweinstein@eGstaff.org
Tasty Travails - My Blog
My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs
Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

#45 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 06 September 2007 - 10:47 PM

It was interesting to me to try the Creole cocktail and Liberal side by side with the same ingredients.

I actually preferred the slightly simpler Liberal to the busier Creole.

Though, oops, it looks like I screwed up the proportions of the Liberal slightly...

1 1/2 oz Sazerac Straight Rye
3/4 oz Cinzano Rosso Vermouth
1/4 oz homemade Amer Picon
dash regan's orange bitters

stir, strain...
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#46 David Santucci

David Santucci
  • participating member
  • 178 posts
  • Location:Boston

Posted 20 September 2007 - 09:56 PM

Anybody else follow Splificator's advice and try Amaro Ciociaro as an Amer Picon substitute? I picked up a bottle and have really enjoyed all the recipes I've tried (Brooklyn, Picon Punch, Liberal), but I've never had the real thing. Or the current version. Or the replica. Would be curious about other people's impressions.

#47 bostonapothecary

bostonapothecary
  • participating member
  • 1,260 posts
  • Location:have shaker will travel

Posted 20 September 2007 - 10:57 PM

Anybody else follow Splificator's advice and try Amaro Ciociaro as an Amer Picon substitute? I picked up a bottle and have really enjoyed all the recipes I've tried (Brooklyn, Picon Punch, Liberal), but I've never had the real thing. Or the current version. Or the replica. Would be curious about other people's impressions.

View Post



wow, never heard of it... will look out for it. i like me a good amaro. my collection has grown quite large.

a life spent looking for perfect blossoms is not a wasted life.
abstract expressionist beverage compounder
creator of acquired tastes
bostonapothecary.com

#48 TBoner

TBoner
  • participating member
  • 113 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 21 September 2007 - 05:11 AM

Never had that amaro, but I've certainly looked around here. I have a replica recipe going and snagged a liter of the current stuff a couple of weeks ago. I'd like to have some of the original to taste, but I doubt much of it ever made it to TX, let alone survived this long.
Tim

#49 David Santucci

David Santucci
  • participating member
  • 178 posts
  • Location:Boston

Posted 21 September 2007 - 06:28 AM

wow, never heard of it...

View Post

Here is Splificator's post on the subject.

Here is a picture of the bottle.

#50 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 23 September 2007 - 04:08 PM

I have yet to find the Amaro Ciociaro in Northern California.

The fine folks at LeNell's tell me they're hoping to have it back in stock next week.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#51 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 10 October 2007 - 11:50 AM

A online acquaintance and Amer Picon enthusiast informed me that he is finally getting some "bites" from Diageo regarding Amer Picon.

He suggested a few more inquiries and friendly nudges from the cocktail community, might tip them in the direction of returning the product to world wide distribution (and maybe its original formulation.)

If you've got some free time...
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#52 bostonapothecary

bostonapothecary
  • participating member
  • 1,260 posts
  • Location:have shaker will travel

Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:14 PM

A online acquaintance and Amer Picon enthusiast informed me that he is finally getting some "bites" from Diageo regarding Amer Picon.

He suggested a few more inquiries and friendly nudges from the cocktail community, might tip them in the direction of returning the product to world wide distribution (and maybe its original formulation.)

If you've got some free time...

View Post



i have yet to track down lazio's "cio ciaro" but i want ot go by cirace in the north end tomarrow and see if they have it... i've heard it described at "root beer" like in character maybe from sasparilla? that might not be like amer picon but that sounds pretty cool. some of the italian amaros may not be classic as immortalized in famous books, but they are available now, fit into classic ratios, and offer stunning surprises...

i give my enthusiastic recommendation to the underdogs cynar and ramazotti
abstract expressionist beverage compounder
creator of acquired tastes
bostonapothecary.com

#53 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,108 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:34 AM

...i have yet to track down lazio's "cio ciaro" ...

I don't know if it is a typo, but there is no space between cio and ciaro -- although I can understand how one might think there is a space considering that that it is capitalized as CioCiaro on the bottle. (I swear there is more to this post than nitpicking spelling.) The reason this struck me as odd is that Amaro CioCiaro is named after a small sub-sub-region in the Southwest of Lazio called Ciociaria and I can't think of why they would capitalize it that way (except maybe because it looks cool?). A person from this region would be called a Ciociaro, which is also the name of the local dialect and would further (as in the the case of the amaro) describe something coming from that region. This name is probably derived from ciòcia (from Latin soccus, which gave us "sock"), which I can best describe as traditional footware of shepherds comprised of a leather slipper bound to the foot with leather straps which are further wound up the legs. Hard to describe, but you would recognize them if you saw them. Anyway, I thought that was an interesting bit of trivia about Amaro Ciociaro that was brought to my mind by the capitalization.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#54 kvltrede

kvltrede
  • participating member
  • 193 posts
  • Location:Chicago IL

Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:05 PM

I have yet to find the Amaro Ciociaro in Northern California....

View Post

Amaro Ciociaro can be found at Vas Foremost on Milwaukee Ave in Chicago (as can the rare-in-Chi Hamm's beer!).

2300 N Milwaukee Ave
Chicago, IL 60647
(773) 278-9420

Foremost has stores all over Chicago but I dunno how many of them carry the Amaro Ciociaro. I live near this one and I'm happy to recommend it but I like the one on Ashland Ave. a little more. Both have some surprising things on the shelves and their prices are hard to beat.

No affiliation, etc.....

Kurt
“I like to keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake--which I also keep handy.” ~W.C. Fields
The Handy Snake

#55 scratchline

scratchline
  • participating member
  • 90 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 22 October 2007 - 09:08 PM

Here are a couple more bottles of Picon.

Posted Image

Pre-metric tax-strip 3/4th quarts bottled in Lawrenceville, NJ unlike our previous bottles that are from NY. As you can see in the pics, the labels are badly faded, but the contents taste great. This is the 78 proof formula and probably dates from the 60's some time. Never expected to find more of this, but now we can start mixing it more freely.

Re the CioCiaro: we like it. Doesn't taste like root beer to us. Good substitute for Picon, but lacks the bitterness. Available at several stores in Brooklyn, we picked ours up at Smith & Vine.

-Mike and Jenny

#56 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 24 October 2007 - 06:58 AM

scratchline,

Wow, jealous of your finds!

So would you say that you need to add bitters to cocktails made with Amaro CioCiaro to get them closer to how they would be with Amer Picon?
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#57 scratchline

scratchline
  • participating member
  • 90 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:12 AM

Definitely, Eje. Next week when I'm off work, I'll sit down and pull out the orange bitters and give it a try, but I think the CiaCiaro with a healthy dose of orange bitters should bring it very close to the Picon.

-Mike

#58 johnder

johnder
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 1,340 posts
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:38 AM

Definitely, Eje.  Next week when I'm off work, I'll sit down and pull out the orange bitters and give it a try, but I think the CiaCiaro with a healthy dose of orange bitters should bring it very close to the Picon.

-Mike

View Post


CiaCiaro + Angostura Orange + a Neutral Grain Spirit (to thin it down and increase the proof) give a pretty amazing Picon recplica.
John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2
--
I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

#59 scratchline

scratchline
  • participating member
  • 90 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 24 October 2007 - 02:28 PM

So where can I get the Angostura Orange?

-Mike

#60 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 24 October 2007 - 02:43 PM

Ha, scratchline! That's exactly what I was going to point out to johnder!

Kind of defeats the purpose of replicating one unavailable orange bitter if you have to find another unavailable one!

Fortunately, over on DrinkBoy, Robert Hess posted the following update from Patrick Sepe, CEO for Angostura USA:

We have patiently awaited label and FDA approval based on the alcoholic content, we hope to receive the first container in early November.  I average about 250-270 emails weekly looking for the product as well as phone calls.  I will let you know as soon as it hits the U.S.


Hopefully soon!
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA