Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Peking duck vs Cantonese duck

Chinese

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 SteveW

SteveW
  • participating member
  • 754 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 09:51 AM

This is a continuation, from the NY board when we were discussing the "Best Chinese seafood in Flushing." I was wondering what are the differences between Peking duck and Cantonese duck? Until recently I thought there was only Peking duck.

Could it be that there's no difference between the two, except for the name? Peking duck is associated with upscale dining, while Cantonese duck would be at the other Chinese restaurants.

--------------
Steve

#2 Oreganought

Oreganought
  • participating member
  • 191 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 09:59 AM

I believe Peking Duck is a specific recipe with many courses utilizing the whole duck, where cantonese duck could be more than one recipe refering to the regional cantonese cooking. I'm quessing though :blink:

#3 Brad S

Brad S
  • participating member
  • 510 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:16 AM

Peking duck is first and foremost a breed.

When it was first imported to Britain in the 19th century it was to be cross bred with the aylesbury duck.

It was then breed for it's own eating. It's what we see in the states as Long Island duck (actually a white peking)

Believe it or not the white peking was first introduced to my home state of CT back in the 1870s and then to L.I.
Turnip Greens are Better than Nothing. Ask the people who have tried both.

#4 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:20 AM

i'm really no expert, but it's my understanding that the ducks that we generally eat are a breed called "pekin" duck, which is quite a different thing from the chinese preparation with scallion and brown sauce.

#5 Brad S

Brad S
  • participating member
  • 510 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:25 AM

I'm pretty sure there called "peking" but I could be wrong.

Perhapes "pekin" is just another name used. Why the G would be dropped from King i'm not sure.
Turnip Greens are Better than Nothing. Ask the people who have tried both.

#6 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:36 AM

the "g" hasn't been dropped as there is no breed called "peking duck". :smile:

do a google search.

#7 Brad S

Brad S
  • participating member
  • 510 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:46 AM

I'm pretty sure there called "peking" but I could be wrong.

Tommy,

Thank you for the clarification. "peking" in a mispronounceation of "Beijing"

I was wrong. It's great to learn new things.
Turnip Greens are Better than Nothing. Ask the people who have tried both.

#8 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 11:50 AM

I think that Peking/Pekin/Beijing/Long Island ducks are one and the same and they refer to a "breed" of ducks. Where as Cantonese is more like a style of preparation, sort of like "chicken cacciatore" is hunters' style chicken "cantonese duck" is Cantonese style duck.

My 2 cents,
FM

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#9 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 12:09 PM

"peking duck" is a preparation. it don't see evidence of anything other than that, unless there's a crispy brown and sweet species flying around that i haven't yet noticed. :blink:

#10 Oreganought

Oreganought
  • participating member
  • 191 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 12:11 PM

"peking duck" is a preparation.  it don't see evidence of anything other than that, unless there's a crispy brown and sweet species flying around that i haven't yet noticed.  :blink:

So I was right....According to Tommy :biggrin:

#11 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 12:49 PM

"peking duck" is a preparation. it don't see evidence of anything other than that, unless there's a crispy brown and sweet species flying around that i haven't yet noticed


I typed Peking (with a 'g') Duck in yahoo search and got two results. This is one of them:

http://www.reichardtduckfarm.com/

They claim that they are purveyors of superior Pekin (no 'g') duck. What are they refering to?? Is Pekin and Peking different?? Now I am seriously confused.

FM

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#12 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 12:52 PM

They claim that they are purveyors of superior Pekin (no 'g') duck. What are they refering to?? Is Pekin and Peking different?? Now I am seriously confused.

FM

they are referring to the species know as pekin duck. they are *not* purveyors of the chinese dish.

i'm outta here.

ediot: changed "peking" to "pekin", and then took a nap. :wacko:

#13 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 01:06 PM

nevermind, g.johnson is doing it all.

#14 g.johnson

g.johnson
  • legacy participant
  • 1,353 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 01:07 PM

Edited to remove sparkling repartee between Tommy and myself.

#15 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 02:07 PM

Thanks for the great clarification g Johnson. I really thought Pekin and Peking are the same thing. It seems that your cantonese duck pic did not make it right though.

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#16 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 02:10 PM

Thanks for the great clarification g Johnson. I really thought Pekin and Peking are the same thing. It seems that your cantonese duck pic did not make it right though.

why was my clarification not thanked and called "great"?

note to self: include pictures next time. possibly pop-ups.

#17 Rachel Perlow

Rachel Perlow
  • legacy participant
  • 6,756 posts
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 21 August 2002 - 02:22 PM

I typed Peking (with a 'g') Duck in yahoo search and got two results. This is one of them:

http://www.reichardtduckfarm.com/

They claim that they are purveyors of superior Pekin (no 'g') duck. What are they refering to?? Is Pekin and Peking different?? Now I am seriously confused.

FM

The owners of the website probably included the work "Peking" in their code somewhere so that their site would show up when you do a search.

#18 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 02:37 PM

They claim that they are purveyors of superior Pekin (no 'g') duck. What are they refering to?? Is Pekin and Peking different?? Now I am seriously confused.

FM

they are referring to the species know as peking duck. they are *not* purveyors of the chinese dish.

i'm outta here.

Tommy-
You did not clarify anything. It seemed you were contradicting yourself by stating that "Peking" is a preparation method and above by saying it is a species or breed. And you did not specify if Pekin and Peking are the same or not (I did see your earlier post).
However A BIG THANKS for making this discussion/argument/learning session interesting.

better?

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#19 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 02:59 PM

You did not clarify anything. It seemed you were contradicting yourself by stating that "Peking" is a preparation method and above by saying it is a species or breed. And you did not specify if Pekin and Peking are the same or not (I did see your earlier post).
However A BIG THANKS for making this discussion/argument/learning session interesting.

better?

well there you have it. i mistyped "pekin" as "peking" in that post. please accept my apologizies, as i did in fact add to the confusion rather than help.

pensively yours,
tommy

#20 Kim WB

Kim WB
  • participating member
  • 2,064 posts
  • Location:lambertville, NJ

Posted 21 August 2002 - 03:06 PM

why was my clarification not thanked and called "great"? 

note to self:  include pictures next time.  possibly pop-ups.

Thanks, Tommy. Just for being you. Fade to instrumental strings, sunset....

#21 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 03:22 PM

You did not clarify anything. It seemed you were contradicting yourself by stating that "Peking" is a preparation method and above by saying it is a species or breed. And you did not specify if Pekin and Peking are the same or not (I did see your earlier post).
However A BIG THANKS for making this discussion/argument/learning session interesting.

better?

well there you have it. i mistyped "pekin" as "peking" in that post. please accept my apologizies, as i did in fact add to the confusion rather than help.

pensively yours,
tommy

No problem Tommy. This really was an interesting discussion. I kept it in my background and refreshed often while working because I wanted to know what the final conclusion was. I'm getting ready to head home now I have a pot of slow cooked RB&R waiting in the crock pot.

later
FM

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#22 macrosan

macrosan
  • legacy participant
  • 2,233 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 05:19 PM

Thanks, Tommy. Just for being you.  Fade to instrumental strings, sunset....

Why did nobody thank me just for being Tommy. Specially as I didn't contribute to this thread purposely so as to leave room for other wonderful people like Tommy to make their typos with impunity.

Humph !

#23 Fat Guy

Fat Guy
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 29,303 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 21 August 2002 - 05:25 PM

Shall we do Top 10 Differences Between Peking Duck and Cantonese Duck?

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)


#24 Jinmyo

Jinmyo
  • participating member
  • 9,879 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, ON, Canada

Posted 21 August 2002 - 06:47 PM

Thank you for the clarification. "peking" in a mispronounceation of "Beijing"

Small point: "Peking" is the Wade-Giles transliteration of the Chinese. The same which gave us a "j" to represent an "r" sound and a "t" to represent "d". "Beijing" is in the Pinyin transliteration form, which represents pronunciation a bit more clearly.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#25 tommy

tommy
  • participating member
  • 15,396 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 06:49 PM

Small point: "Peking" is the Wade-Giles transliteration of the Chinese. The same which gave us a "j" to represent an "r" sound and a "t" to represent "d". "Beijing" is in the Pinyin transliteration form, which represents pronunciation a bit more clearly.

clearly this is what i've been trying to say, with my sentence fragments and typos.

#26 Fat Guy

Fat Guy
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 29,303 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 21 August 2002 - 07:45 PM

I'm sorry that my Chinese-food reference library isn't particularly good. I don't know if that's my fault or if the books just aren't out in English. Either way, I resorted to asking the lady at the Chinese restaurant I order a lot of takeout from. She's an industry veteran and knows a lot about Chinese high cuisine even though the restaurant she works in is rather generic. In any event, she said the Cantonese roast duck doesn't have air pumped into it to separate the skin from the duck the way Peking duck does. She said there are sauce and serving differences too. And she said the whole point with Peking duck is to eat the skin, whereas Cantonese duck is about the meat. This all may or may not be correct. Perhaps someone who really knows can chime in.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)


#27 Toby

Toby
  • legacy participant
  • 780 posts
  • Location:New York

Posted 21 August 2002 - 08:09 PM

Peking Duck is a style of duck preparation as noted above, which is served in the classic manner as 3 separate courses: the duck skin folded into pancakes; duck meat stir-fried with vegetables; and duck bones boiled for soup. It's prepared by first tieing off the neck of the duck with string, inserting the nozzle of the air pump into the neck opening and then inflating with the pump until the skin separates from the flesh. The duck is then scalded and hung from a hook for the skin to dry. Then the duck is coated with a mixture of boiling water, vinegar and maltose and then left, still hanging, to dry completely for 10-12 hours. Then the duck is roasted until the skin is a deep brown color and very crisp. The skin is removed from the meat and served with steamed pancakes. (Marcella Hazen adapts this recipe somewhat in a recipe for roast duck where you first scald the duck and then blow dry it -- the pores open from the scalding and then the blow drying draws out all the fat. The duck comes out with very crispy skin.)

Cantonese duck is roasted, glazed duck. This is the duck you see hanging in the windows of Chinese restaurants in Chinatown. First the duck is salted and rubbed with white rice wine. A marinade of bean sauce, soy sauce, brown sugar, white pepper and cilantro is placed in the body cavity of the duck, along with ginger, scallions, star anise and cinnamon stick. The duck is then roasted until well cooked and glazed, and served chopped into bite-sized pieces with the juices.

#28 Fat Guy

Fat Guy
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 29,303 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 21 August 2002 - 08:16 PM

Thanks!

Back when I was working at a law firm in Midtown Manhattan, we were right near this place called Maple Garden Duck House that served (and may still serve) the best Peking duck I know of. If you went there to eat they would do the whole elaborate tableside presentation of the duck and slice the skin up with what looked like a straight razor. They didn't do the three course thing, though I think it was available upon request. In any event, we rarely got to go to the restaurant, so we ordered the Peking duck as a takeout item fairly often when we were working late into the night and had the ability to order on the firm's account. It wasn't cheap, and this place was fancy, so when they did takeout it was fairly elaborate. The Peking duck came in approximately eleven different containers. The meat was sorted by type and each type was packed separately. There were also various sauces, pancakes, scallions, etc. Quite a trip. Me and one other guy probably ate $1000 worth of Peking duck in a year.

Gray Kunz once did a riff on Peking duck where he served duck in multiple courses. Of course it's not uncommon in France to get it in two courses (they serve the breast and take the legs back for further cooking), but this was way more Asian. I can't remember all the permutations but I do remember the stir-fry-type course as being quite amazing.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)


#29 SteveW

SteveW
  • participating member
  • 754 posts

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:09 PM

Thanks Toby, I think you answered my question about the differences conclusively. It's been interesting watching from the sidelines. checking all the replies. I was clueless to the answer, so I couldn't contribute any more.

I wonder before the air-pump days, how people pumped air below the skin to make Peking Duck? Do some people in China still make the Peking duck the old fashioned way(no air pump used)?

BTW, if people here don't know Gray Kunz had a stint working in Hong Kong running a kitchen. Maybe that's where he got his duck dish.

-----------------
Steve

#30 SobaAddict70

SobaAddict70
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 7,600 posts
  • Location:Hobbiton, the Shire

Posted 21 August 2002 - 10:44 PM

I should add that many places claim to serve Peking duck (the Chinese dish), but generally don't add the third course, or they combine the first two courses together (both meat and skin served together with pancakes). The usual method of eating the pancake course is to dab a pancake with a little hoisin or plum sauce, add some scallions, some sliced skin (and/or meat) and fold it up, etc.

If you do order PD, be sure to find out if the restaurant in question serves all three courses.

SA





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Chinese