706 replies to this topic

[SweetSide]

Rice flour also works well. Use alot of it. A professional banneton still needs to be floured.

And, since I've seen this come up in another thread, since it will work like a pastry cloth (which I'm more acquainted with), rub the flour into the cloth well -- get it so that it's between the fibers. And don't wash it unless absolutely necessary, like seasoning a pan.

[glennbech]

Another very usefull leasons learned today ; Never (completely) trust a recipe!

Since Im new to the sourdough baking, I tried to be true to my recipe that got me good tasting bread the last time; However, the results were disaster.

My pre-ferment/sponge were stored 8-12 hours, just as my good working recipe. However, when baking today, i stored it at about 32-33 C. Last time, I guess the temperature were about 26-28. This makes a huge impact the the pre-ferment!

Today, after storing at 32-33, the pre-ferment were liquidized. I could pour it out of the bowl. It aslo had the best rising ability I've ever seen in a sourdough. My guess is that the processes that feeds on the statch is running a lot faster at the 32c temperature, producing a more liquid dough.

Since Im new, I didn't dare to alter my initial recipe and went for the same amounts of additional flour and water...

This was a total disaster, with yet another extremely sour "pancake" bread :-) I ruined a linnen cloth. Even stuffed with rye flour, the dough stuck to my improvised proofing tool.

I couldn't even slice it, since the breads were so Wet. So it cracked up all over during baking.

I guess I have to practice practice practice. Im was a bit frustrated today. Since i got real excited seeing the great rising power of my dough, the dissapointment over the extremely bad result was extra hard. But, I'll keep doing it untill I get it right, and develop a feel for how it's done !

[donyeokl]

Hi Glenbech,

I leave my starter at about 30C temp here where I live and it seems fine. What I have realised though is that I do adjust the final proof time accordingly as the temperature is higher where I live (30C to 34C) thus the proofing time is shorter as compared to the recipe books where the temp are considerably lower, in their 20s.

Even stuffed with rye flour, the dough stuck to my improvised proofing tool.

You might want to use rice flour instead of rye flour, it works too and to me its much cheaper than rye where I am located...


Happy Baking

Don

[glennbech]

More sourdough technical subjects for discussion :-)

A) What is the most common cause of low rise during both fermentation, proofing and baking? I made good tasting bread today, but they were a bit on the "compact" side, if you lnow what I mean .-)

B) Can someone verify or falsify this statements ?

- At 32C the acid producing bacteria are unhappy, the yeast thrives.
- At 28C the acid bacteria trive, and the yeast is not so happy.
- At 30C this balance is optimal

Hence, Higher temperatures during sponge development/fermentation the more rise but less sour bread.

Lower temperatures during sponge development/fermentation means less rise but more "sourdough taste".

[glennbech]

I have a question about kneading a dough. The question is basicly Hand kneading versus machine kneading.

I have a Kenwood Major kitcen machine with a dedicated kneading tool, and I love it. This is the process I usually use ;

Hold back 100g of whater, add all other ingredients. I first Knead slow for 3 minutes. I then Increase the speed, and add a bit of the water. The dough goes wet. I wait until the dough firms up, and add more water. I keep doing this untill all the water is in. (Taking 5 to 10 minutes). Total kneading time is therefore usually from 8-10 minutes.

I can easily do the "windowpane" test at that time, and the dough is usually smooth, shiny and elastic.

Any Idea on how this machine aproach compares to hand kneading? Does my aproach sound like something that can produce good bread?

[Paul Stanley]

I have a question about kneading a dough. The question is basicly Hand kneading versus machine kneading.

I have a Kenwood Major kitcen machine with a dedicated kneading tool, and I love it. This is the process I usually use ;

Hold back 100g of whater, add all other ingredients. I first Knead slow for 3 minutes.  I then Increase the speed, and add a bit of the water. The dough goes wet. I wait until the dough firms up, and add more water. I keep doing this untill all the water is in. (Taking 5 to 10 minutes). Total kneading time is therefore usually from 8-10 minutes.

I can easily do the "windowpane" test at that time, and the dough is usually smooth, shiny and elastic.

Any Idea on how this machine aproach compares to hand kneading? Does my aproach sound like something that can produce good bread?

What is the thinking behind adding the water gradually?

I used to use a KA to mix, in which case I simply added all the water together and used it to knead, usually on a fairly slow speed, until I was happy.

I no longer have the KA, so now I work by hand. I have had great success with Dan Lepard's method: a rough mix, wait 10 minutes, and then three 15 second (yes ... second) kneads at 10 minute intervals. The thinking is that gluten development depends as much on hydration as on mechanical manipulation, so what the dough really needs is time not action. The result is like magic, and does seem to produce a dough which is just what I would expect of kneaded dough, silky smooth and elastically resilent by the time the last knead is complete. The finished bread is as good as anything I ever made kneading with the KA.

Holding back water would seem inconsistent with the theory behind this approach ... which doesn't mean it might not work!

One possible advantage to the "gradual incorporation" method would be the ability to make small adjustments for consistency. My problem with that is that I don't think I bake enough to judge the adjustments accurately: I am as likely to make dough too wet by adding too much water because it "looks dry" at an early stage as I am to get it right, or too dry because it seems "too wet" when it would have been perfectly OK if it had been allowed to hydrate and rise. So now I tend to stick to the recipe quite precisely, and only adjust (next time I make a particular recipe) if the mix was significantly wrong the previous time. By sticking to the same flour, I get reasonably consistent results. Not perfect, no doubt, but then baking is all about compromise. I do however adjust rising/proofing based on how the dough is performing, and in that way one can to some extent compensate, albeit imperfectly, for small variations in dough consistency.

(BTW, I can also see that there might be reasons to build a dough in a series of distinct stages with quite differenty hydrations, eg a sponge to get yeast activity going strongly, followed by a stiff dough to enable long fermentation with only limited rising, followed by a baking-thickness dough to shape and proof. I've read/baked some recipes like this. But that seems a different proposition from your method.)

[glennbech]

Thanks for your thoughts...

you know... The thinking behind gradually adding water is unknown for me. It's just the recipe I follow from my first book about bread. Since I don't like doing things just "because" I threw away my old recipe book today, and ordered both Dan Lepard's and Ed Wood's books.

After doing more experiments today I have even more questions...

This is my routine.

On the days I bake I always follow the same recipe. 8'ish, preferment/sponge with a tablespoon or so of starter and equal amounts of flour/water. The flour I use in the sponge will amount to about 30% of my total flour weight. Today for example I used 150g flour in the sponge and 450g total.

When i get home from work 8-12 hours later, my pre-ferment should be bubbely and active. Recently It hasn't, and I now figured out that 35-38 degrees is probably not very good for it.

Adding more flour and water (of course using my Online Baker's percentage calculator ) to get the values I want.

My routine uptil now has been to rise the dough for 1 hour, and proof it for anohter, before cutting and baking.

Now my questions begin ; Any answer of any depth on any of them will be warmly recieved.

A) What is the purpose of both rise & proof ? Why don't just form the dough and proof it for a longer time. What good does the "knockdown" add ?

B) I recently discovered that when I cut my loaves before putting them in, the cuts are not deep enogh and the crust cracks elsewere. Should I cut even deeper ?

C) I discovered (to my horror) that I probably have been keeping my sponge/preferment, and dough during rising in 32-35 degrees C. Could this have killed the yeast ? Explaining poor rise ?

D) I get REAL poor oven spring. How can I get more? I want more more more ! :-) :-)

And today; ... Darn! I forgot the salt... :-) It's a good thing the loaves are only for practice .-)

I guess a lot of these questions will be answered when my books arrive as well. In the mean time, please feel free to fill me in !

Rgrds,

[CanadianBakin']

I have a question too!

I'm on day 2 of my first sour dough bread. I'm using a recipe from the Chef who taught a pastry & baking class I took in March.
Day 1 - I kneaded together starter, bread flour, water and salt. Let sit at room temp 24 hours.
Day 2 - I made up the bread dough and let sit at room temp 6 hours, then shaped and now have in the fridge fermenting.
Day 3 - I'm supposed to let sit at room temp until double and then bake. I know it depends on a lot of factors but approximately how long will this take? I have 2 1-1/2 lb loaves. If I take them out at 1pm should that be enough time to have them ready for dinner at 5:30? I'm going to be out most of the morning so my other option is to take them out at 9am and bake them off when they look ready, hoping that from 9 - 1pm when I get home won't be too long.
Also, what temp and approximately how long? My instructions just say to BAKE.
I don't know if it makes a difference but I made them with multi-grain bread flour.

Edited by CanadianBakin', 02 May 2006 - 11:25 PM.

[Desiderio]

I am at my fourth sourdough bread ( I am about to finish the fourth tonight).
I had a very good experience with the recepie I am following from the Hamelman's book,I made the pain au levain ( sourdough bread),and tonight I am making the vermont sourdough , even though this is gonna be colorado sourdough.
I dont get much bulk raise and neither after I shape the loaves they dont change too much ,maybe just flatten a bit after a while,but I do get an awesome oven spring ,like probably 3 times the volume .With the Pain au levain I dont not retard the loaves in the fridge ( actually Hamelman said this kind of bread will lose some of its caracteristics), but I probably gonna try to retard this one see how it goes.
Since I have bought the stone to cook the bread on I have notice a better quality of the crumb and the crust .
Right now I am baking couple days a week ,yes yes I ate a lots of bread , Iam italian and I miss the real bread here
Well good bread to you guys still lots to learn , lucky I love bread

[glennbech]

In my experience, you should take those loaves out as early as possible. The fermentation process that raisesyour bread are very dormant when cold.

The dough will use some hours just to get to room temperature. I'd definitly go for 9 am, if the aim is to double their size before they go into the oven,

From what I've read, and from my limited experience, it's hard to overproof (so they collapse) sourdough loaves.

Questions for you;

At day 1, do you mix your entire dough, or just a about 30% of
your flour ?

Good luck, and please post your results.

[glennbech]

I'm still very curious about the difference between bulk ferment and proofing. I mean... Why don't just form the laoves right away, and bulk ferment/proof at the same time.

It might have something to do with texture I gues? That the "knockdown" the doigh gets when you form the loaves is a good thing. I Might have to conduct some experiments of my own here .-)

Rgrds,

Edited by glennbech, 03 May 2006 - 12:32 AM.

[Desiderio]

In my experience, you should take those loaves out as early as possible. The fermentation process that raisesyour bread are very dormant when cold.

The dough will use some hours just to get to room temperature.  I'd definitly go for 9 am, if the aim is to double their size before they go into the oven,

From what I've read, and from my limited experience, it's hard to overproof (so they collapse) sourdough loaves.

Questions for you;

At day 1, do you mix your entire dough, or just a about 30% of
your flour ?

Good luck, and please post your results.

Do you mean for the starter or for the entire dough?
I do my preferment before I go to work ,when I came home usually I mix it with the rest of the recepie and do an autolyse ,the pain au levain only flour and water ,and add the salt and the starter after about 20 to 60 minuts later ,with this sourdough tonight I did the autolyse with the flour the water and the starter ,waited the same time and then add the salt the the usual bulk couple of folding etc.

[glennbech]

Okay, I see what you mean now. thanks .-)

By the way; I experienced a huge benefit from putting the dough in the fridge for retardation the other day ; It definitly stiffnes up a bit, especially with wet doughs.

This makes the shape of the loaf better (less dreaded pan-cake effect in the oven), also easier to slice.

[Paul Stanley]

A number of comments:

1. Why bulk fermentation Some breads are not bulk fermented. As I understand it, it serves three functions. (a) The longer fermentation allows more time for some of the developments other than rising, including bacterial action, which affect the taste of the loaf. (b) The double fermentation affects the texture of the bread. (c.) The first rising allows the yeast to become highly active, allowing for a faster proofing, which makes shaping easier.

2. Your times Compared to the approach I use (which is Lepard's) your bulk rising and proofing times seem very short. Compared to your 1 hour rise, I allow 4 hours. Compared to your 1 hour proof, mine takes around 3 hours to approximately double in bulk. The key is to see the approximate doubling though, not the time. I use much less starter than you: for me only about 15% of the flour is in the starter.

3. Your ovenspring Lack of ovenspring could be from a variety of factors. It seems very unlikely that a 1 hour proof is overproofing (but are you seeing an approximate doubling?). And if the dough is bursting out then you are getting oven-spring. My guess is that you are under-proofing, and then baking at a time when crust formation prevents further rising and then you kill the yeast. The key I think is to go by the amount the dough has risen, not the time. I do add some steam in the form of water in a pan in the oven--about a cup, which evaporates about 10 minutes after the loaf goes in. I don't know truly whether that makes any difference.

4. Pancake effect To some degree this is inevitable. Three things help for me. The first is very careful shaping of the loaf. You have to make sure that there is good tension in the surface, which holds everything in place. The loaf after shaping needs to be nice and tight. The second is to use a proofing basket, but I think you are doing that. The third is to cover the proofing loaf with a cloth, not plastic. I think a little drying of the surface (not too much) is better than a very damp surface, which is very hard to handle later. Over-handling when the loaf is moving from proofing basket to the oven can be a problem with shape. You need to get the hang of moving very fast but very gently when transferring the proofed loaf to the oven. I have found that placing the loaf on a cold tray and thence into the oven works better for me than using a peel, because my "peel technique" is poor, and the damage I do to the loaf transferring it twice (basket to peel, peel to hot oven) is greater than the additional benefit I get from putting it onto a hot surface. Another baking compromise, to make up for my poor technique!

[glennbech]

Hi Paul, Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail!

The reason I experiment with short bulk and short proof is to cram one bread baking session into one day. 7 hours of bulk/proof just doesn't fit into my schedule. (I'd be baking at 01:00 am)

The final conclusion may be that good bread isn't baked in a day .-)
I could bulk ferment , shape and retard (fridge) one day and proof on the next though. I might try that .-) Paitience... I have to have patience...

As of your advice on over-handling.. It's nice to learn that Im doing something right. My peel technique is getting real good, the only thing that cause disaster right now, is that my linnen cloth sometimes sticks to the dough. Even the smallest sticky point will completely ruin the
proofed loaves.

I'm trying everything... rye flour, rice flour, rubbing it in, putting the cloth in the basket, closing it with a lid and shaking it like crazy etc. I'm getting there .... Good results last night :-)

As for the steam... I'm doing that too, and during this weekend I think I "over-steamed" a few. I got real shiny looking bread. Too bad I didn't take a picture of it.

[Desiderio]

Okay, I see what you mean now. thanks .-)

By the way;  I experienced a huge benefit from putting the dough in the fridge for retardation the other day ; It definitly stiffnes up a bit, especially with wet doughs. 

This makes the shape of the loaf better (less dreaded pan-cake effect in the oven), also easier to slice.

You know I couldnt do the refrigeration this time , didnt have the time and actually no room in the fridge .
I do add steam as well in the form of ice cubes at the beginning right when I am putting the bread in and close right away, then I add some more water in a pan that I usually put on the bottom f the over for steam.I do remove that whan the oven spring has ended , so the bread can actually dry out little bit , if that makes sense, I think that steaming at the beginning really makes some difference on my loaves expecially with the ice cubes cause on a hot pan they make lots of steam in little time .
Oh and my peeling tecniche is a disaster P I really need to work on that maybe get some rice flour and better linen cloths for that porpose, but even they sticked this time it didtn seams to bother the raising at all, I was kinda rude on getting them out of the sheet psn to the stone in the oven .I do end up on cooking all night with this type of session and I think its beacuse my working schedule , but it doeas take some time anyway.

Edited by Desiderio, 03 May 2006 - 05:40 AM.

[Paul Stanley]

Ugh. Bread dough is like a baby: it insists on following its own timetable. The other night I mixed dough at midnight, then got up at 4.00am to shape it before going back to sleep, then baked at 7.00! Fresh bread for lunch ... but slightly crazy.

[Desiderio]

Ugh. Bread dough is like a baby: it insists on following its own timetable. The other night I mixed dough at midnight, then got up at 4.00am to shape it before going back to sleep, then baked at 7.00! Fresh bread for lunch ... but slightly crazy.

I agree I do the same I am up now at 6.30 to do the baking, but it is worth ,I love to have fresh bread

[glennbech]

It's so cool to hear that you guys are altering your time table to babysit bread. I thought I was the only one. Lol .-)

[Desiderio]

Umm I am not satisfied with the bread , I mean its ok , but nothing like I wanted .I want lots of nice holes and a thick crust , that I dont seem able to reproduce.The other resepie at this point was closer , in this one I did last night the crum sems too compact, no holes or just few little ones.In fact it says in the recepie to retard overnight for this , I am wondering if the refrigeration will help create a better crumb more areated.Hamelman in his book said ( I went and look today again ) that after ther refrigeration the loaves dont need to be at room temperature before baking , but just bake them out of the fridge , if the proofing and shaping etc is done correctly.I migh try another batch on thursday night ( last day of the week for my working schedule so I can dedicate more time at the bread ).I also notice a big difference in the taste , and I thought there was almost no difference between the two recepie ( such a newbie haha ).Oh well its good to try though .Keep you posted .

Good bread guys

[rooftop1000]

So everyone baking bread definatly got to me. Last Friday I started a starter. Did everything by the book as it were ...the EGCI Sourdough class.
Monday morning I refreshed the starter, Monday night I mixed and hydrated and salted and mixed and proofed. It rose a teeny tiny bit, and into the fridge it went. Tuesday afternoon I flipped my floury dough pancake onto the peel and into a really hot oven. I used a squeeze bottle to spray water on the floor and walls of the oven, then cursed like a sailor pulled the rack out slashed the top of the dough sprayed and shut the door again.
It rose like a champ got all nice and brown and crusty...so I repeated with the second dough pancake....dare I say an EXACT repeat - load, spray, curse, slash, spray etc.
I also lowered the temp a little for the 2nd loaf.

Well neither one was fully cooked inside BUT it was the best tasting bread I have ever made and makes really nice toast.








Pizza on saturday


tracey

Edited by rooftop1000, 03 May 2006 - 06:37 PM.

[glennbech]

Your crumb looks real nice, but you say it wasn't cooked on the inside ? Do you mean like a bit "moist"? I've experienced that I couple of times.

Good work man!

[glennbech]

Umm I am not satisfied with the bread , I mean its ok , but  nothing like I wanted .I want lots of nice holes and a thick crust , that I dont seem able to reproduce.The other resepie at this point was closer , in this one I did last night the crum sems too compact, no holes or just few little ones.In fact it says in the recepie to retard overnight for this , I am wondering if the refrigeration will help create a better crumb more areated.Hamelman in his book said ( I went and look today again ) that after ther refrigeration the loaves dont need to be at room temperature before baking , but just bake them out of the fridge , if the proofing and shaping etc is done correctly.I migh try another batch on thursday night ( last day of the week for my working schedule so I can dedicate more time at the bread  ).I also notice a big difference in the taste , and I thought there was almost no difference between the two recepie (  such a newbie haha ).Oh well its good to try though .Keep you posted .

Good bread  guys

What were your rising and proofing times for this batch? I'm not sure anymore if the "holes" is something to aim for (other than the cool looks) I managed to get real big holes with my last loaves, but the crumb was still moist and compact .-) So... Big
holes surrounded by bad tasting moist crumb... I'd be happy with an even spongy and fluffy crumb any day .-)

I have a dough in the fridge right now that rised 4 hours last night, shaped and put directly into the fridge. I wonder if I should proof it for 3-4 hours before baking, or just slap it on the peel, slice and bake.... Any Ideas on this? Anyone ?

[glennbech]

Okay... 3'rd post in a row here :-) I'm spamming this thread... (I don't really care since I started it, and really want to share a Revealation made last night *grin* )

Instead of mixing the dough first carefully for 3 minutes, and then more intensly up to 5 minutes more with my Kenwood, I just used the machine to mix all ingredients after my pre-ferment.

I then just worked a bit with the dough on the table top, and let it rest for 10-15 mintutes.

Here is the incredible thing.. when I got back, I expected a wet difficult to handle douhg. That was not true! The doigh had "hardened" significantly, and I was able to give it a few "folds" and "flips" with my hands oiled. I let it rest some more, and went back later... Even more firmness....

I've read about this teqnique on this forum, but seeing it for myself was a very interesting experience. I didn't do this "scientificly" like counting seconds when handling the dough, and doing perfect timings between handling, but I rested and worked the dough for an hour or so.

It is by far the firmest and easiest 68% hydration dough I'e been working with as of today .-)

[Paul Stanley]

I'm glad you tried that method. It is sort of magic isn't it? After years reckoning that I had to knead and knead to get decent bread, the revelation that it was as much time as kneading that matters has been considerable. I find the process of gently kneading and then turning on an oiled surface quite helpful, and the resulting dough rather easier to handle.

As to holes, moist crumb etc etc. I think one has to let the holes take care of themselves! I tend to get bread with a few large holes, but not all that many, which is fine by me. Overall texture of the crumb is more important. Also, I do want an "even" crumb, if you see what I mean: large and small holes, but all through the loaf, not a tight texture at the bottom and huge holes at the top. That tends to come I think from trying to use a wet dough to make shapes (boules, batons) it can't support: wet doughs demand "flatter" shapes (think ciabatta and focaccia).

On crust, I find that leaving the bread in the oven for about 5 to 10 minutes after it is cooked (with the oven turned off) improves the crust. But I've never got in my domestic oven a crust of the quality that comes out of a "proper" bread oven, and I suspect one just has to live with that.

So far as the moistness of the crumb is concerned, I think it is partly a question of the baking (must bake enough ... which usually means a little longer than you think you need), partly a question of the adequacy of the proofing (under proofed bread tends to seem a bit soggy because it is so dense), and partly maybe a question of time after baking. The quality of the crumb and the taste improves over a few hours after baking, I think. Not sure about the chemistry of that, but presumably the same process as staling. To some degree it is desirable. For me the "perfect" window for sourdough is between 6 hours and 24 hours after the bread came out of the oven. Sourdough seems to get sourer over that time as well. And naturally raised breads can have quite a moist crumb anyway, often. Poilane's bread, for instance, has just that moist texture. I don't think it is undesirable!

[Paul Stanley]

BTW, Tracey, that bread looks great, and the loaf you have cut doesn't look soggy or underbaked at all. Lovely.

[Desiderio]

So everyone baking bread definatly got to me. Last Friday I started a starter. Did everything by the book as it were ...the EGCI Sourdough class.
Monday morning I refreshed the starter, Monday night I mixed and hydrated and salted and mixed and proofed. It rose a teeny tiny bit, and into the fridge it went. Tuesday afternoon I flipped my floury dough pancake onto the peel and into a really hot oven. I used a squeeze bottle to spray water on the floor and walls of the oven, then cursed like a sailor pulled the rack out slashed the top of the dough sprayed and shut the door again.
It rose like a champ got all nice and brown and crusty...so I repeated with the second dough pancake....dare I say an EXACT repeat - load, spray, curse, slash, spray etc.
I also lowered the temp a little for the 2nd loaf.

Well neither one was fully cooked inside BUT it was the best tasting bread I have ever made and makes really nice toast.








Pizza on saturday


tracey

I dont know it looks pretty good to me , and the crumb doesnt look undercooked looks great , I wish I could get that kinda of crumb , stil wasnt able to at this point .
Good work , Thanks for sharing guys )

[Desiderio]

Okay... 3'rd post in a row here :-) I'm spamming this thread...  (I don't really care since I started it, and really want to share a Revealation made last night *grin* )

Instead of mixing the dough first carefully for 3 minutes, and then more intensly up to 5 minutes more with my Kenwood, I just used the machine to mix all ingredients after my pre-ferment.

I then just worked a bit with the dough on the table top, and let it rest for 10-15 mintutes.

Here is the incredible thing.. when I got back, I expected a wet difficult to handle douhg. That was not true! The doigh had "hardened" significantly, and I was able to give it a few "folds" and "flips" with my hands oiled.  I let it rest some more, and went back later... Even more firmness....

I've read about this teqnique on this forum, but seeing it for myself was a very interesting experience.  I didn't do this "scientificly" like counting seconds when handling the dough, and doing perfect timings between handling, but I rested and worked the dough for an hour or so.

It is by far the firmest and easiest 68% hydration dough I'e been working with as of today .-)

Nice , did you let the loaves in the fridge after and bake them right away?
Let us know , and post some pics .
Thank you Glennbech,this thread is very very interesting and helping us achieving what we want .

[donyeokl]

Hi Tracey,

So everyone baking bread definatly got to me. Last Friday I started a starter. Did everything by the book as it were ...the EGCI Sourdough class.
Monday morning I refreshed the starter, Monday night I mixed and hydrated and salted and mixed and proofed. It rose a teeny tiny bit, and into the fridge it went. Tuesday afternoon I flipped my floury dough pancake onto the peel and into a really hot oven. I used a squeeze bottle to spray water on the floor and walls of the oven, then cursed like a sailor pulled the rack out slashed the top of the dough sprayed and shut the door again.
It rose like a champ got all nice and brown and crusty...so I repeated with the second dough pancake....dare I say an EXACT repeat - load, spray, curse, slash, spray etc.
I also lowered the temp a little for the 2nd loaf.

Well neither one was fully cooked inside BUT it was the best tasting bread I have ever made and makes really nice toast.

The loaves look fine, seems the dough spread a little too fast before going into the oven... You might want to use a slightly smaller proving basket or banetton so that you force the dough to rise rather than spread sideways during the final rise.
What temperature did you bake the loaves in? I normally bake at 230C for 10mins then reduce to 190C and bake for another 30 to 35 minutes or till loaf sounds hollow when tapped. Put a tray of water at the bottom of the oven when baking, this will create steam in the oven. You might want to insert it at the same time you put your dough in for baking.

Hope this helps...


BTW, I just baked this sourdough loaf today using the starter instead of baker's yeast. I used Glenbech recipe and modified it a little with 50% wholemeal flour and 50% bread flour and used water instead of milk.





Thanks Glenbech for the recipe...

Happy Baking...

Don

[rooftop1000]

Don you are not going to make me think...I refuse I baked the darker one that was cut - at 500 and the lighter one got reduced to 400 after the steam. I used a floured dishtowel in a big bowl for rising and a squeeze bottle to generate steam. I have no idea what temperature the sponge was at but I let the dough rise 3 hours in the turned off oven but I was making dinner using the stove top....Did pretty good I think


tracey