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Prime Rib Roast


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#1 Jmahl

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 11:02 AM

I know there is a lot of discussion on which method is superior, high or low heat.

Well here are my results. I started with an 81/2 lb., four rub roast which I left exposed on the top shelf of the frig for six days turning the roast about every day. (dry aging) I removed the roast some three hours before I planned to place in oven. (I found this bit of common wisdom of little value since the internal temperature only came up some 3 degrees in this three-hour period.) I trimmed off some dark spots, frenched the ribs for looks and removed the elastic ties and retied with string. The roast had a tangy odor –but not spoiled Posted Image

A thing of beauty no?

I rubbed the roast with olive oil and pan seared it. (I have come the conclusion this step is probably unnecessary. The roast will brown up nicely without it.) I salt and peppered the roast and placed on a rack in a 225 degrees F., oven. I used a new probe thermometer set to alarm at 125 degrees. (The thermometer worked perfectly.) Posted Image

Roasting time about three hours. (The key – a failsafe remote thermometer.)

Here is the roast with the first rib carved off.

Posted Image

And here it is on the plate. Posted Image

The results were perfect. Tender, flavorful perfect prime rib.

I believe the evidence is in – Low heat method is the way to go. 225-250 degree oven – 125-degree internal temperature. Any further debate?
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#2 jackal10

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 11:15 AM

Yumm!
I'd go more extreme: 140F/60C oven and cook to 135F/57C - about 12 hours or longer. The very long cooking times helps the collagen dissolve, giving super tender meat.
If you look carefully at your photo you will see that the outer half inch or so is grey and overcooked, and the meat has lost a lot of juice into the dish. Cooking at an even lower temperature will stop the outside overcooking, and the juices escaping. You will need to sear the outside first though.

Edited by jackal10, 17 December 2006 - 11:19 AM.


#3 BryanZ

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 11:18 AM

Someone needs to step and do a whole standing rib roast SV. Blast it in like a 550 oven to brown it at the end. My baths aren't big enough and my vacuum bags aren't big enough to hold something of that size..

#4 Timh

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 12:46 PM

Many hotels and and steak houses that regularly serve prime rib cook theirs using Alto Sham ovens. My experience with them has been very low temp for a very long time. We would load them up (2 ovens) with 6-8 rib roasts each for @ 12 hours. Also used them for the steamship rounds.

Edited by Timh, 17 December 2006 - 12:47 PM.


#5 tim

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 01:11 PM

Jmahl,

That is one beautiful roast. I would have been tempted to cut off the cap and cook the eye of the rib at 225 degrees and grill the cap steak for a contrasting treat.

Bring on the au jus, horseradish cream and bearnaise!

Tim

#6 Jmahl

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 03:20 PM

Yumm!
I'd go more extreme: 140F/60C oven and cook to 135F/57C - about 12 hours or longer. The very long cooking times helps the collagen dissolve, giving super tender meat.
If you look carefully at your photo you will see that the outer half inch or so is grey and overcooked, and the meat has lost a lot of juice into the dish. Cooking at an even lower temperature will stop the outside overcooking, and the juices escaping. You will need to sear the outside first though.

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Dear Jackal10:

You have a point - for home cooking 200-225 works. This roast was fork tender but it was a very well marbled cut.

For even more consistant results you could go lower and slower as you suggest. The meat lost juice because the roast had not rested very long -- My guests were not in the mood to wait. But good suggestions from all.

So, am I right? LOW AND SLOW prevails?

Jmahl
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#7 Shalmanese

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 03:27 PM

Did you rest the beef before you cut it? There shouldn't be a pool of juice on the plate like that.
PS: I am a guy.

#8 Jmahl

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 03:36 PM

Did you rest the beef before you cut it? There shouldn't be a pool of juice on the plate like that.

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You're right -- the roast did not have sufficent resting time. My guests were ready for the main course -- there was no holding them back. A little more resting time would have retained more juice. But all in all -- very happy with results.
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#9 UnConundrum

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 06:14 PM

Just beautiful... Can't say more.

#10 Mikeb19

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:09 PM

Someone needs to step and do a whole standing rib roast SV.  Blast it in like a 550 oven to brown it at the end.  My baths aren't big enough and my vacuum bags aren't big enough to hold something of that size..

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Even in all the restaurants I've worked in, I've never seen a cryovac machine or bags large enough to hold a whole rib roast.

#11 daves

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 10:09 PM

So, am I right?  LOW AND SLOW prevails?

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I think so. My favorite prep for prime rib is low 'n' slow with indirect 200° heat and mesquite smoke on the bbq -- 'til it reaches an internal temp of about 115°-120°. Then take it off, rest it while stoking the fire to 600° or so, and then throw it on to get a nice crust. Serve immediately :)

We'll be doing this Christmas day...

#12 markk

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 11:05 PM

I believe the evidence is in – Low heat method is the way to go.  225-250 degree oven – 125-degree internal temperature.  Any further debate?

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Since you put it like that, yes, there's plenty further debate!

I like my prime rib really crusty on the outside, as well as rare on the inside, so I sear mine in blistering hot peanut oil or rendered beef fat (the smoking point of olive oil is way too low for this), and then I roast it at 500 degrees with a temperature probe that stops the cooking when the internal temp is around 120. I get a much more enjoyable crust:

Posted Image

And though I didn't snap a photo of the interior of that roast, this is how my insides come out - (in fact, with the high roasting method, I can have incredible crisp on the outside, and perfectly rare on the inside of the end cut)

Posted Image
(This roast was Australian grass-fed beef, which is extremely lean, which I chose on purpose for reasons of cholesterol, but sadly meat that lean can never crust like a fatty piece; yours was indeed a gorgeous piece of beef!) I think you'd have gotten even better results with my method, bearing in mind that an internal temp of 115 is 115.

But after it roasts, and before I carve it, I put it in a 115 degree oven to rest for a good 25 minutes, so it doesn't bleed.

And as far as "frenching" the bones, I'm weeping at how you took away the best part of the roast!

Edited by markk, 17 December 2006 - 11:12 PM.

Overheard at the Zabar’s prepared food counter in the 1970’s:

Woman (noticing a large bowl of cut fruit): “How much is the fruit salad?”
Counterman: “Three-ninety-eight a pound.”
Woman (incredulous, and loud): “THREE-NINETY EIGHT A POUND ????”
Counterman: “Who’s going to sit and cut fruit all day, lady… YOU?”

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#13 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 05:10 AM

I've always done the blast at 500 and then oven off method, because it works for me. I am open for suggestions though, and like to keep an open mind, so this topic is of interest to me.

I did some work over the year with a beef company, and my friend there just sent us a 17 pound Certified Angus rib roast for Christmas. I keep opening the fridge and patting it on its little butt - we call him Junior and I am considering hanging his own Christmas stocking for him. He's almost become part of the family. He's swimming around in his cryovac, because personally I don't care for the "game" I detect in dry aged beef. I do intend to season it and give it 24 hours uncovered in the fridge before roasting though.

I certainly will not french the bones. The plate of bones on the table is a big family favorite, and "Deviled" bones for lunch the next day I consider a real treat, if there are any left. I agree that there is a lot of great meat there.

I am wondering how many ribs to roast though. I am only serving 7 to 8 people. I am thinking of taking the two bones from the small ends for steaks later for hubby and myself, but it almost hurts to think of desecrating Junior.

Will have to mediate on the subject...

#14 Marlene

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:13 AM

I've got a 6 bone Prime rib to do for Christmas and I'm serving 8-9 people. I'm cooking the whole thing. It makes great sandwhiches the next day! I make a lot of Prime Rib roasts and I do not subscribe to the low and slow method for Prime Rib. I believe there's a thread around here somewhere where I tried Jack's method and there was no real noticeable difference to me. For anything smaller than a three bone roast, I'll sear the outside first, but anything larger, is going to crisp up quite nicely on its own in the oven, particularly if you are using convection and brush the outside with a little olive oil.
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#15 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:33 AM

I've got a 6 bone Prime rib to do for Christmas and I'm serving 8-9 people.  I'm cooking the whole thing.  It makes great sandwhiches the next day!  I make a lot of Prime Rib roasts and  I do not subscribe to the low and slow method for Prime Rib.  I believe there's a thread around here somewhere where I tried Jack's method and there was no real noticeable difference to me.  For anything smaller than a three bone roast, I'll sear the outside first, but anything larger, is going to crisp up quite nicely on its own in the oven, particularly if you are using convection and brush the outside with a little olive oil.

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Yeah, I love the leftovers too. Additionally, my kids are young adults that bring gladware with them to haul leftovers home in after any family gathering. Junior just may remain intact. Funny, for our crowd, 17 pounds of Turkey would seem like cutting it too close for dinner, take aways and leftovers.

What is Jack's method? I sort of searched for it, but got too many results.

I don't sear the outside unless it is a small roast either. With the blast and turnoff, the crust is very nice and crispy, especially with an overnight salted and seasoned.

#16 Marlene

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:41 AM

This is Jack's method.

Yumm!
I'd go more extreme: 140F/60C oven and cook to 135F/57C - about 12 hours or longer. The very long cooking times helps the collagen dissolve, giving super tender meat.
If you look carefully at your photo you will see that the outer half inch or so is grey and overcooked, and the meat has lost a lot of juice into the dish. Cooking at an even lower temperature will stop the outside overcooking, and the juices escaping. You will need to sear the outside first though.

View Post



Yeah, I love the leftovers too. Additionally, my kids are young adults that bring gladware with them to haul leftovers home in after any family gathering. Junior just may remain intact. Funny, for our crowd, 17 pounds of Turkey would seem like cutting it too close for dinner, take aways and leftovers.

What is Jack's method? I sort of searched for it, but got too many results.

I don't sear the outside unless it is a small roast either. With the blast and turnoff, the crust is very nice and crispy, especially with an overnight salted and seasoned.

View Post


I think you'll have less leftovers than you think! :smile:
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#17 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:29 AM

This is Jack's method.

Yumm!
I'd go more extreme: 140F/60C oven and cook to 135F/57C - about 12 hours or longer. The very long cooking times helps the collagen dissolve, giving super tender meat.
If you look carefully at your photo you will see that the outer half inch or so is grey and overcooked, and the meat has lost a lot of juice into the dish. Cooking at an even lower temperature will stop the outside overcooking, and the juices escaping. You will need to sear the outside first though.

View Post



Yeah, I love the leftovers too. Additionally, my kids are young adults that bring gladware with them to haul leftovers home in after any family gathering. Junior just may remain intact. Funny, for our crowd, 17 pounds of Turkey would seem like cutting it too close for dinner, take aways and leftovers.

What is Jack's method? I sort of searched for it, but got too many results.

I don't sear the outside unless it is a small roast either. With the blast and turnoff, the crust is very nice and crispy, especially with an overnight salted and seasoned.

View Post


I think you'll have less leftovers than you think! :smile:

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Doh! Thanks Marlene, I see it now. Our crowd ranges in the doneness factor (I'm solidly a true MR from the middle of the roast, stepdaughter and son like the better done end cuts) so roasting the whole thing may give us a bit better range to keep everyone happy. I am thinking of cooking to 125, but may stop at 120.

Still meditating.

#18 Marlene

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:31 AM

I pull at 120-122. I find anything more makes the roast more well done than I would like, once you factor in the resting time.
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#19 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:52 AM

I pull at 120-122.  I find anything more makes the roast more well done than I would like, once you factor in the resting time.

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Makes sense. 120 it is, and for the minority that likes it better done, they can just boil their piece in au jus or stick with the ribs if they must!

#20 paulraphael

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 08:25 AM

I would love to see someone do high and low heat method side by side, with the other variables kept the same. Which would mean starting the low heat one a lot earlier, so you eat them at the same time.

My inclination is always for more fire: I love the crisp skin and the deep roasted flavors that only come from a healthy dose of the maillard reaction, which won't even occur below 300 degrees. In the last week I roasted cornish hen and pork tenderloin at 550 degrees, and chicken at 500. All came out tender, juicy, and with a crisp, mahogony brown finish with deep, complex roasted flavors.

I have no doubt that I'd like the browned crust of the high temperature roast more; what would be interesting to compare is the meat on the inside. I'd expect to see more of a gradient from well done to extremely rare in the high temp version, and I'd also expect it to retain more moisture overall. but i have no sense of which would produce more tender or flavorful meat in the middle.

Then there are the 2 temperature methods people mention. If it's a tossup between high and low, maybe the dual approach would give the best off both worlds.

#21 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:23 AM

I would love to see someone do high and low heat method side by side, with the other variables kept the same. Which would mean starting the low heat one a lot earlier, so you eat them at the same time.

My inclination is always for more fire: I love the crisp skin and the deep roasted flavors that only come from a healthy dose of the maillard reaction, which won't even occur below 300 degrees. In the last week I roasted cornish hen and pork tenderloin at 550 degrees, and chicken at 500. All came out tender, juicy, and with a crisp, mahogony brown finish with deep, complex roasted flavors.

I have no doubt that I'd like the browned crust of the high temperature roast more; what would be interesting to compare is the meat on the inside. I'd expect to see more of a gradient from well done to extremely rare in the high temp version, and I'd also expect it to retain more moisture overall. but i have no sense of which would produce more tender or flavorful meat in the middle.

Then there are the 2 temperature methods people mention. If it's a tossup between high and low, maybe the dual approach would give the best off both worlds.

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I have seen some who start on high (for a shorter time frame than blast and off), turn off, then finish low - so I think there are about three variations. I've never seen high for the duration, but I would imagine you would get a larger gradient. Wish I had two or three home ovens and two or three roasts to play with.

Roasting in the oven I blast and then off. Now smoking, low and slow is the only way to go, IMO.

Starting with a quality product has the most effect on taste and tenderness, I think. I do blast roast chicken pretty good, but Turkey I go low and slow. Big fan of presalting here as well, in all cases where I have a hunk of meat.

Edited by annecros, 18 December 2006 - 09:25 AM.


#22 dockhl

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:32 AM

Anne~

with a large chunk o' meat like this, how far in advance will you presalt?

I can't wait. My favorite meal of the year :wub:

Kathy

#23 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:45 AM

Anne~

with a large chunk o' meat like this, how far in advance will you presalt?

I can't wait. My favorite meal of the year  :wub:

Kathy

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At least 24, but maybe as much as 36 or 48 hours. Honestly, this is the first time I have oven roasted more than 5 ribs. I have smoked a whole rib though, but seasoned it a little differently with a cajun style rub, and I went with 48 for that both times. I think of it as a sort of very short dry aging almost, and I am partial to that tang of salt from the crust as a contrast to the pure beefiness of the interior. It crusts up nicer from the drying and salting in the fridge as well, from my experience.

My favorite meal as well! :wub: Hubby usually requests this for his birthday in October, but things just didn't work out with the timing last fall. He's just as excited as I am, and is the one that dubbed the roast "Junior."

I just wish I had more opportunity to experiment, as it is I eat so much I sweat suet the next day!

If Junior behaves himself, I may have to take pics and post his "coming out" party.

#24 Ann_T

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:23 AM

Jmahl, Mark, Two beautiful prime ribs, cooked two different ways. Guess it is just a matter of personal preference. Not that one is superior to the other.

I favour the High Heat method. I roasted a small one rib prime rib last night, just big enough for two thick slices. I took it out of the oven when it was at 115°F and the temperature went up to 129°F while it rested. Next time I'll take it out closer to 110°F so that it doesn't go over 125°F. I also pre-salted for 24 hours. I've pre-salted chicken and pork but never beef before.

Posted Image

#25 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 11:34 AM

Jmahl, Mark, Two beautiful prime ribs, cooked two different ways.  Guess it is just a matter of personal preference.  Not that one is superior to the other.

I favour the High Heat method.  I roasted a small one rib prime rib last night, just big enough for two thick slices.  I took it out of the oven when it was at 115°F and the temperature went up to 129°F while it rested.  Next time I'll take it out closer to 110°F so that it doesn't go over 125°F.  I also pre-salted for 24 hours.    I've pre-salted chicken and pork but never beef before. 

Posted Image

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Now, there is NOTHING wrong with that hunk of meat! Good job Ann T.

When you say high heat, do you mean high heat throughout the roasting process? Or start and stall kind of high heat?

I'm just wondering if this is the solution to small roasts. With just hubby and I, the only time I buy a small roast is when it is on sale and then I cut it into steaks when I get home. Maybe there is a way to roast a one rib roast that gives you decent results?

Looks like you have done well with it.

Edited by annecros, 18 December 2006 - 11:35 AM.


#26 Ann_T

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 11:58 AM

Anne, there is usually just two of us so I often roast small prime ribs with just one rib.

I usually follow Barbara Kafka's high heat method (Roasting a Simple Art) which starts the roast at 500°F for 45 minutes and then makes some adjustments depending on the size. But for small roasts like last nights, I just start and finish at 500F.


Ann

#27 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 12:15 PM

Anne, there is usually just two of us so I often roast small prime ribs with just one rib

I usually follow  Barbara Kafka's high heat method (Roasting a Simple Art) which starts the roast at 500°F for 45 minutes and then makes some adjustments depending on the size.  But for small roasts like last nights,  I just start and finish at 500F.


Ann

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Thank you. I'll have to give it a whirl!

:smile:

#28 budrichard

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:49 PM

First of all, are we talking USDA Grade Prime meat or the generic apellelation that is used these days for a properly termed 'Standing Rib Roast'?
I purchase my Prime USDA Grade Rib Roast from Zier's in Wilmette, Illinois. Is is dry aged 21 days at the store. Aging in your refrigerator for a few days accomplishes nothing and merely deludes yourself into thinking you have accomplished something significant.
The debate and screwy methods of cooking cause me mirth because nothing could be simpler than cooking a true Prime Rib Roast. Pepin has a method that chefs have been using for eons.
Season, sear in a hot oven, cook at somewhat reduced temperature above 300F( I remove when internal temp is just above 100F) and the let rest for a long time(at least an hour). Simple/works. -Dick

#29 annecros

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 03:21 PM

First of all, are we talking USDA Grade Prime meat or the generic apellelation that is used these days for a properly termed 'Standing Rib Roast'?
I purchase my Prime USDA Grade Rib Roast from Zier's in Wilmette, Illinois. Is is dry aged 21 days at the store. Aging in your refrigerator for a few days accomplishes nothing and merely deludes yourself into thinking you have accomplished something significant.
The debate and screwy methods of cooking cause me mirth because nothing could be simpler than cooking a true Prime Rib Roast. Pepin has a method that chefs have been using for eons.
Season, sear in a hot oven, cook at somewhat reduced temperature above 300F( I remove when internal temp is just above 100F) and the let rest for a long time(at least an hour). Simple/works. -Dick

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I agree that the quality of the meat is the first concern.

Prime is almost never found, and when it is it is quite often "accidentally" mislabeled. What is served and sold as "prime" bears very little resemblance to the prime of 75 years ago.

The rib roast in the store is no better than "select" - twp grades down from prime - and,that's a fact.

Top of choice is not bad at all. In fact, most would be surprised that it was choice. Including people who have long believed they were eating prime.


I agree that dry aging is difficult in a home fridge, but there are modifications that could be made to a fridge to accomadate the requirements. I'm not big on dry aging, so I will stop here out of ignorance.

Presalting is a seperate issue from dry aging.

I see you like your beef rare! Good for you!

I think the time honored way of cooking this roast is to shove it on a spit and keep turning it until you can't stand not eating it anymore.

:biggrin:

It is funny, but it is so much fun playing around with a big hunk of meat you know will take a great deal of effort to make inedible. At it's best, it almost always ranks in one of those "best things I have ever eaten" categories.

Indulge us, budrichard! We want to play!

#30 robyn

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 03:40 PM

I've got a 6 bone Prime rib to do for Christmas and I'm serving 8-9 people.  I'm cooking the whole thing.  It makes great sandwhiches the next day!  I make a lot of Prime Rib roasts and  I do not subscribe to the low and slow method for Prime Rib.  I believe there's a thread around here somewhere where I tried Jack's method and there was no real noticeable difference to me.  For anything smaller than a three bone roast, I'll sear the outside first, but anything larger, is going to crisp up quite nicely on its own in the oven, particularly if you are using convection and brush the outside with a little olive oil.

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Here's the thread from about 3 years ago where I learned how to cook a prime rib roast. I've followed your convection oven method (300 degrees until internal temp is 120) since then. Always a great crust - some medium stuff on the ends for people who want medium - and the insides are rare and beautiful. Just made one last Friday for Chanukah - and it was excellent. Robyn